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Javelin won't fire on soft targets


SgtGold
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I'm currently playing 'Galloping horse downfall' and I can't get the US forces to fire their Javelin missiles against soft targets. I've tried area as well as direct enemy targeting. Any idea on what the issue could be? AFAIK US infantry should be able to use the Javelin against soft targets. Thanks.

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The probability of ATGM teams using their missiles against soft targets has been significantly reduced compared to Shock Force IIRC. But theoretically it should be possible in Black Sea too.

 

Edit: @sburke: I think i have also seen them fire it at enemy ATGM and teams and other weapon crews.

Edited by agusto
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I had a javelin team fire one off against a pesky machine gunner in a building. Excellent use as it knocked out the machine gunner that was pinning down my squads.

Yup, I used a javelin team to target a Russian MANPAD, in the open, in "Poking the Bear." Even though the MANPAD was within small arms range of the javelin team, the AI used a javelin to take out the MANPAD. that really surprised me. You just can't just tell the team to use the javelin. Edited by Vet 0369
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When Black Sea development first started, the troops were too loose with their Javelins. We're talking readily dumping their Javs at enemy infantry and not leaving any for enemy armor that might be over the next hill. Using the target order was even worse, you couldn't even use it for your infantry on infantry targets at all, if you were expecting enemy armor of any kind. It was not good and far worse overall than the current behavior. So their willingness to use them on non-AFV targets was tightened to what you see today. In the absence of a more granular control scheme, this is basically picking the lesser of two evils - I'd rather have Javs available for tanks than waste them on a rifle team that I can deal with through other means.

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Using the target order was even worse, you couldn't even use it for your infantry on infantry targets at all, if you were expecting enemy armor of any kind.

 

Split off AT team.  Problem solved.  Far more flexible than current total prohibition.

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But it won't work for the AI.

AI player doesn't fire on area targets, it either uses mission designer orders (i.e. target armor arc) or TacAI targeting. There is no problem with the TacAI not using AT weapons on soft targets (unless stressed), which was the big problem recognized initially. The problem now is when a player makes a judgement that a threat is Javelin worthy and cannot explicitly order the team to fire on it, because the game has to protect us from ourselves. (Sure that ATGM is probably going to kill one of your Strykers, but no, you aren't allowed to fire a Javelin on it. There might be a tank just around the corner, and you can't be trusted to make that call.)

The change to TacAI targeting was good. The total prohibition for player-placed targets is bad because it is not necessary. It's a solution looking for a problem.

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AI player doesn't fire on area targets, it either uses mission designer orders (i.e. target armor arc) or TacAI targeting. There is no problem with the TacAI not using AT weapons on soft targets (unless stressed), which was the big problem recognized initially. The problem now is when a player makes a judgement that a threat is Javelin worthy and cannot explicitly order the team to fire on it, because the game has to protect us from ourselves. (Sure that ATGM is probably going to kill one of your Strykers, but no, you aren't allowed to fire a Javelin on it. There might be a tank just around the corner, and you can't be trusted to make that call.)

The change to TacAI targeting was good. The total prohibition for player-placed targets is bad because it is not necessary. It's a solution looking for a problem.

Good point. I retract my response.

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I found Javs useful for plinking the errant machine gun/sniper team in CMSF. Though I agree they were usually overzealous about attacking non-armor targets. Kornet and Spigot crews tended to be pretty trigger happy too. I'd still like it if "Target" told the team to shoot at a target regardless of soft/heavy status. A guided, rocket propelled bomb is pretty useful for a lot of situations even if not ideal. 

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What's worse is when you order the Javelin team to fire at a T90, and it shoots at a BMP-3 instead. In this mission, I have four Javelins to take out five or six T90's. Red force has a bucket load of BMP-3s too, but I'd rather take the chance on using an AT4 on a BMP where at least I have a chance of killing it and save the Javelins for the tanks. No matter what I tried, the Javelin team refused to fire on the tank I targeted and shot it's last Javelin at the BMP. I'd think the AI would have the same order of fire as real life. If the Javelin team sees a T90 and a BMP-3, It should take out the T90 even if the BMP is closer.

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