Annoyed

[Cpl Steiner]

I have no doubt this has been raised before but I was so annoyed with the Quick Battle I started a moment ago that I immediately abandoned the game and turned off CM:RT in disgust to write this post. What am I talking about? The AI "Setup Zone" barrages that invariably wipe out your force before the scenario has even started!

I had decided to play a quick battle, got all my men lined up the way I wanted them, and had advanced in turn-mode towards a tree-lined ridge directly in front of my setup zone so I could see what enemy I was up against. 30 seconds into the first turn, a huge artillery barrage hit the ridge, decimating my force. Every single unit took heavy casualties. WTF! My men could not see the enemy at game start, so they damn well could not see my men either, and yet somehow the commander of the enemy side had telepathically identified my hidden force behind the ridge and radioed in a massive barrage on the ridge at the precise moment my men moved off from their start line, presumably calling it in several minutes before the game even started.

Things like this add absolutely nothing to the game. They are simply not fun and put me off playing. Why should I bother going to the trouble of selecting force mix, map size, terrain, and meticulously arranging my force in the setup zone, only for all this effort to be a waste of time due to a ridiculous prescient AI barrage. What a joke!

[AttorneyAtWar]

Indeed that is very annoying, but there is a very easy fix!

Don't let the AI pick its forces, do it yourself, you can still get a randomized result from the ai just go in and delete the artillery.

[Kauz]

I have no doubt this has been raised before but I was so annoyed with the Quick Battle I started a moment ago that I immediately abandoned the game and turned off CM:RT in disgust to write this post. What am I talking about? The AI "Setup Zone" barrages that invariably wipe out your force before the scenario has even started!

I had decided to play a quick battle, got all my men lined up the way I wanted them, and had advanced in turn-mode towards a tree-lined ridge directly in front of my setup zone so I could see what enemy I was up against. 30 seconds into the first turn, a huge artillery barrage hit the ridge, decimating my force. Every single unit took heavy casualties. WTF! My men could not see the enemy at game start, so they damn well could not see my men either, and yet somehow the commander of the enemy side had telepathically identified my hidden force behind the ridge and radioed in a massive barrage on the ridge at the precise moment my men moved off from their start line, presumably calling it in several minutes before the game even started.

Things like this add absolutely nothing to the game. They are simply not fun and put me off playing. Why should I bother going to the trouble of selecting force mix, map size, terrain, and meticulously arranging my force in the setup zone, only for all this effort to be a waste of time due to a ridiculous prescient AI barrage. What a joke!

Let me guess.........82mm rocket spam...

May be you are lucky next time and the AI buys instead of 10-30 of Katjusha 82mm rockets "only" 20-60 strafing PE aircrafts for 16 bucks each

___

But let us talk serious.....i understand your issue....but dispite the very often funny (or even absurd) money-relationship of some units.....i find it OK that the AI at least fires artillery at attack or assault missions.

Only at Probe or Meeting engagement the AI should not use artillery at the beginning.

[ScoutPL]

Indeed that is very annoying, but there is a very easy fix!

Don't let the AI pick its forces, do it yourself, you can still get a randomized result from the ai just go in and delete the artillery.

This is exactly what I do. Select Human pick forces and when the selection screen pops up select "Recommend Setup" (or whatever the verbage is). Then delete the arty/mtrs/rockets that are inevitably selected. (Dont let yourself preview the other units, the fire support assets are always at the bottom.) Russian fire support is so cheap it rarely makes a difference in the balance. Well, except the AI doesn't get to kill all of your infantry in the first 30 seconds.

The only other option is to edit the QB maps and delete the Target Objectives that are telling the AI to fire those missions, then re-save under a different name and special select that map when creating your QB.

[c3k]

Bah. That annoying buzz you'd heard while you were organizing your men? It was a spotting plane! You should've shot it down or had your own air force chase it off. Sheesh.

Yes, very annoying.

Playing the AI in QB is a dice roll. I -always- HIDE my men on the first turn. This avoids most of the casualties.

FWIW.

Ken

[Vanir Ausf B]

First turn barrages outside the setup zone is a very common AI tactic in QBs. Once you understand this you can always avoid it by simply not leaving your setup zone on the first turn. Then you get to watch the AI blow most of its indirect fire budget on empty fields.

[YankeeDog]

IMy men could not see the enemy at game start, so they damn well could not see my men either...

This is a very foolish assumption to make.

[ScoutPL]

First turn barrages outside the setup zone is a very common AI tactic in QBs. Once you understand this you can always avoid it by simply not leaving your setup zone on the first turn. Then you get to watch the AI blow most of its indirect fire budget on empty fields.

I believe rocket attacks are the exception here. Its been awhile since I let this happen but I am fairly certain I was rocketed in my setup zone a number of times (the area of effect is so broad).

[JasonC]

First turn on a QB vs the AI, all vehicles are buttoned and stationary, all infantry are on "hide" and stationary. Avoid bunching up too much and crowding the forward edge of the set up zones - instead hang back with normal intervals.

Turn 2, move out as normal.

Sure it is less than optimal. But as work arounds go, it works.

[GhostRider3/3]

First turn barrages outside the setup zone is a very common AI tactic in QBs. Once you understand this you can always avoid it by simply not leaving your setup zone on the first turn. Then you get to watch the AI blow most of its indirect fire budget on empty fields.

This is exactly what I do as well. It took about 3 QB battles to learn this anoying AI tactic... but Vanir is right... I hardly suffer any casualties now from their barrages.

[womble]

While it's a relatively easy lesson to learn, still it diminishes the AI that it operates so predictably. AI use of arty could do with a bit of a tinker, I feel, across the whole product range. I sympathise with the feeling that long call stuff should be used in preplanned barrages, because it will never arrive in time if the AI has to wait for it, since the AI can't predict where you'll be when it gets here. But there are other options than Immediate that it could consider: a delayed mission on the "first peeking line" maybe, or on a likely first overwatch position.

[Apocal]

I went through and deleted the AI's setup zone bombardment plans in every QB map, because once you've gotten used to dealing with it (not particularly hard at all) it means the AI is wasting its indirect fire support - all of it - on uselessly bombarding areas I'm not moving through. Instead it could be using those tubes and that ammo intelligently, hanging the threat over my figurative head throughout the battle.

[sfhand]

Well... considering who is executing the fire mission, I consider it proof positive that this is a gamey tactic...

[JasonC]

Scenario designers need to script AI artillery use. There is nothing wrong with map fire barrages, they just shouldn't happen on turn 1, or on set up zones. Turn 6 on the obvious route of advance up the left side, that's the ticket. Can we get that sort of thing just from maps? I haven't designed them, just use other people's...

[Paper Tiger]

Scenario designers need to script AI artillery use. There is nothing wrong with map fire barrages, they just shouldn't happen on turn 1, or on set up zones. Turn 6 on the obvious route of advance up the left side, that's the ticket. Can we get that sort of thing just from maps? I haven't designed them, just use other people's...

Sadly, we can't although we have been asking for improvements for some time. I would be content for the time being with being able to add delays to the AI-scripted opening bombardment but even that appears to be hard to do.

Major caveat. I have yet to play Red Thunder or design a mission using the v3 engine so it's possible I've missed some new functionality.

[Paper Tiger]

I went through and deleted the AI's setup zone bombardment plans in every QB map, because once you've gotten used to dealing with it (not particularly hard at all) it means the AI is wasting its indirect fire support - all of it - on uselessly bombarding areas I'm not moving through. Instead it could be using those tubes and that ammo intelligently, hanging the threat over my figurative head throughout the battle.

I would leave it in when the human player is the defender. Nothing wrong with getting plastered by an AI attacker's opening bombardment. That's as good a bombardment as the AI is going to make and it should hurt.

I don't use the stock QB maps. All mine are customised to my own playstyle and so are not suitable for BF QB maps. I never have the AI waste its artillery with bombardments on the attacker's set-up zones. If the AI is doing an assault or an attack, yes, if doing a Probe, Meeting or defending, no opening bombardment.

[Apocal]

I would leave it in when the human player is the defender. Nothing wrong with getting plastered by an AI attacker's opening bombardment. That's as good a bombardment as the AI is going to make and it should hurt.

Yeah, I should have specified I meant AI defenders. Attackers I don't care if they plaster me, that's fine since I usually have sufficient setup area, fortifications, buildings, etc. available.

[Nidan1]

Why is it that some folks start an "I am thoroughly disgusted with Combat Mission" for the following reasons, and I will never play it again unless BFC fixes this horrible problem which causes my frustration" thread, and then never come back in to comment on subsequent posts relating to their rant. I find that quite curious.

There is probably a logical reason for it.

[RMC]

It hasn't been fixed in their desired time frame (immediately) so they left?

[Macisle]

First turn on a QB vs the AI, all vehicles are buttoned and stationary, all infantry are on "hide" and stationary. Avoid bunching up too much and crowding the forward edge of the set up zones - instead hang back with normal intervals.

Turn 2, move out as normal.

Sure it is less than optimal. But as work arounds go, it works.

This became my SOP on, I think, my third SP QB when BN first came out. Of course, rockets in CMRT are a special threat, due to their spread. Still, following this pretty obvious set of tactics should result in minimal/no casualties in most SP QBs.

[Cpl Steiner]

Why is it that some folks start an "I am thoroughly disgusted with Combat Mission" for the following reasons, and I will never play it again unless BFC fixes this horrible problem which causes my frustration" thread, and then never come back in to comment on subsequent posts relating to their rant. I find that quite curious.

There is probably a logical reason for it.

I apologise for not returning to the thread. Thanks everyone for your comments. By the way, I am not "thoroughly disgusted with Combat Mission". Some aspects of it, such as these AI turn 1 barrages, do drive me nuts and make me turn off the game in disgust, but I know I will come back to it again. And for the record, next time you are playing CM:BN with the "Common Wealth Forces" module or CM:SF with the "British Forces" module, some of those British voices you hear will be mine as I did some of the voice acting for them. I also designed some of the missions for CM:SF British Forces. In other words, I count myself as someone who has shown a lot of commitment to CM over the years rather than just a troll, but I do feel the urge for a rant when my entire force gets practically wiped out on turn one of a QB!!

[Nidan1]

I hope its not the voice that goes; "Run away, run away, run away!" Whenever I hear that one I know my British lads are in serious trouble.

[Cpl Steiner]

I hope its not the voice that goes; "Run away, run away, run away!" Whenever I hear that one I know my British lads are in serious trouble.

No, I don't think that's mine. I did record a rather excited one that went "Their gonna wipe us out!" but I don't think it got used. Perhaps I shouldn't say this but some of the dialogue I recorded was shamelessly copied from games like "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare" (edit: re-recorded by me I mean). I remember hearing a hand-to-hand combat snippet that went "Die you bastards!" in a distinctly west country accent that used to crack me up every time I heard it as it sounded like it was recorded by Worzel Gummidge but I think that got binned too. I have a "scouse" (Liverpool) accent, so that might help you identify mine!