A Suggestion

[lurrp]

(I don't know if this would be feasible for BFC, and I don't mean any trouble or offense. This was just an idea I had that I figured would be worth sharing.)

So myself, and I assume others, are find of some of the more "obscure" campaigns of WWII. For me this includes Norway, France 1940, and the Balkans. Perhaps BFC could create sort of "family-lite" games covering other parts of the war? These would be stand-alone games with less content than a fully blown base game, such as BfN or FI, and would not receive packs or expansions. Content wise, they would pretty much be the equivalent of a stand-alone module, with maybe a campaign, a couple scenarios, and perhaps some new QB maps. Vehicles/terrain could be restricted to types already included in current BFC games to minimize the workload. I don't know if this would work or not, but I think it would give many people (like myself!) a chance to scratch their Combat Mission itch in a more obscure part of the war. In addition, I have no interest in modding, nor learning to mod, and would happily just pay for a "Norway mini-game" instead of taking the time to make it myself. In terms of hardware, maybe just one or two new vehicle/weapon types would be included per release. Would this be something BFC would ever consider doing? If not, sorry to have bothered anybody. Thanks!

[Vanir Ausf B]

I'm no historian, but I don't think there is a whole lot of overlap with regards to vehicles and other units currently in the games and what would be seen in those campaigns. For example, the French Army of 1940 would have to be created almost entirely from scratch.

[lurrp]

True, and in hindsight France wasn't the best suggestion. It just happens to be a campaign I'm fascinated with, so I put it. I think a far easier one would be something like Crete, which could use a great deal of terrain, plus German paratroops, from Fortress Italy. While there were a variety of allied forces on the island, they wouldn't all have to be represented, as the whole point of these mini-games is to not go to in-depth. Maybe model the Mk. VI tank, some Commonwealth units, and perhaps introduce Cretan civilian milita. My point is, BFC wouldn't (and shouldn't) go all out with the stunning level of detail they put into their base games. Going back to France, perhaps they could only choose one or two French units, perhaps a Light Mechanized Dragoons Battalion, a standard Infantry Battalion, and a Cavalry Recon Regiment. With that, you could use existing R-35s, meaning the only vehicles needed would be trucks, Panhard armored cars, and AMR33s, which were pretty much machine gun-armed R-35s. Now obviously, you would need more stuff, but I believe you only need to model stuff for a few scenarios as opposed a whole "family" of games.

[Michael Emrys]

Certainly in Norway and the Balkans much new terrain would have to be modeled. And as Vanir points out, TO&Es would need some major revamping with Norwegian and Balkan countries' forces. No, this would not be as easy as hotcakes. I would definitely like to see an early war family of games, but it would be a serious project and would need to be seriously undertaken.

Michael

[sburke]

Considering the resources required would have to come directly away from the current games planned, I wouldn't hold out much hope. However I'd love to see a full game family on the "blitzkrieg years". British, French, Dutch, Norwegian, Polish and German units. I'm in!!

[Michael Emrys]

British, French, Dutch, Norwegian, Polish and German units.

You are forgetting the Belgian army. Or are you still thinking of Belgium as a part of the Netherlands?

Michael

[Freyberg]

I'll definitely buy any early-war game that comes out.

[BLSTK]

I'd definitely support The Blitzkrieg Campaign.

As for simulating French units, how hard would it be to model a division of Parisian waiters?

Those aprons could serve handily as white flags.

[umlaut]

You´re also forgetting the danish army, sburke. Or are you still thinking of England as a part of Denmark?

[DavidFields]

I would love the OP idea--though I would guess it would not happen for 2-3 years in any case, even being deliriously optimistic.

Even with CM1, BFC did not see a market for such a series, though there were mods to get the German invasion of France in there--on a small scale. Crete was in CM1--my favorite campaign.

I will go further: I would like to see the German invasion of Poland. But then we get to the issue of cavalry units--and that is likely a non-starter.

As far as making the vehicles, is that the critical difficult step? Or is it that each time frame, and each theater, has peculiar game mechanics which need to be tweeked to make it feel realistic?--particularly to the Grogs of this series.

[Ted]

CM1 had the Finnish Army

[Sergei]

I think y'all are forgetting that this concept already exists: BFC did publish a one-off, CM:Afghanistan, in cooperation with Russian Snowball. And even with CM:Afghanistan many of the 3d models came from CMSF.

And that's sort of what it takes for them to veer away from their main focus. BFC's a bigger company than it once was (two programmers, ooh!) but still not so big that they could just do some eg. Norwegian war game in the side. It's quicker to develop games when the titles overlap, which is why the first East Front game will be set in 1944 rather than 1941.

[sburke]

Which is why CM east meets west. Russia vs the allies 1945 should be the next game family after bulge and the first EF game are done.

[nachinus]

I'd love a Blitzkrieg years family for CM as well. There's something about that campaigns that fascinates me. These are the years that changed warfare and shocked the world with all these new weapons and tactics. Yet, a mere 3 years after that, these revolutionary weapons (PzI, II, even early PzIII), were terribly lame and useless.

[Freyberg]

I'd forgotten about the Finnish Army!! I loved CMBB...

[Michael Emrys]

Which is why CM east meets west. Russia vs the allies 1945 should be the next game family after bulge and the first EF game are done.

You are clearly no purist!

Michael

[lurrp]

Is Blitzkrieg-era really that unpopular? Ok, maybe it's not as well known as Normandy or North Africa, but it doesn't seem that obscure to me. I totally get shooting down a Norway or Balkans game, but Fall Gelb/Rott doesn't seem like it would be any less popular than Sicily, which I guess turned out ok. Also, I'd love to see a Barbarossa game at some point, and perhaps Blitzkrieg could lead into that?

[Michael Emrys]

Also, I'd love to see a Barbarossa game at some point, and perhaps Blitzkrieg could lead into that?

More likely to go the other way. Barbarossa is on BFC's list to build, and with it in the can a large part of the work to make a 1940 game would already be done.

Michael

[Webs]

Hrm. I'd like to see the whining that happens when the French/BEF player uses his armour as it should be used. The Germans would suffer terribly.

Give me a handful of SOMUA S 35s and I'll beat them all the way back to Munich. Throw some B1s in there and make it Berlin (although it would take a really long time to drive there). The French had some fantastic albeit stupid-looking tanks, thrown away by doctrine.

[BLSTK]

The French did a wonderful job of training their men to raise their hands above their heads. Unfortunately, their tanks were designed with combatants in mind. In the end, the French were unable to drive their own tanks.

[Michael Emrys]

Give me a handful of SOMUA S 35s and I'll beat them all the way back to Munich. Throw some B1s in there and make it Berlin (although it would take a really long time to drive there). The French had some fantastic albeit stupid-looking tanks, thrown away by doctrine.

Don't be too sure. Certainly on armor and weapons issues many of the French and British tanks were on a more or less equal footing. But where the Germans had an edge, and it was a decisive one, was in three man turrets and multiplicity of radios. This allowed them to be used with much greater efficiency.

Michael

[Sergei]

Most of all, Germans capitalized on the grand tactical part of the equation. Auftragstaktik, Schwerpunkt principle, Manstein plan and a bunch of other pig german words meant that in practise the teeny weeny German Panzers didn't have to slug it out with every single Allied tank in existence.

[lurrp]

I think the one-man turrets pretty much kill the French armor. Yes, Char B1s and SOMUAs are pretty potent, but FT-17s, H-39s, and Renaults are...less so. Seems to me like a big challenge for the French player would be finding a way to make use of the weaponry and armor of the big beasts. As for the British, the Matilda I was armed with just a machine gun, and the Matilda II was almost powerless against infantry. And they were both obscenely slow. Good combined arms (with the help of some friendly 88mms) would be pretty effective, I imagine. Vehicles like the above are one of the reasons I find the Early War period to be so interesting.

[BLSTK]

And zen zers zee leetle matter of zee "courage".

[akd]

Grow up. Denigrating the courage of soldiers on a national/cultural/racial basis is not well-tolerated around here.