how is hand-to-hand combat modeled?

[BDW]

I'm in a desperate situation in a game, out of ammo, and contemplating a charge from behind into a hand-to-hand combat situation. I'm wondering: is hand-to-hand combat even modeled? If so, has anyone tried it out? Will my guys stand any chance if the enemy squad still has ammo? My ammo-less squad is hiding (unspotted) about 5 meters behind the enemy squad.

[nik mond]

Does your squad have grenades left? Even satchel charges or rockets? If you can get them within range they will use those when all the bullets are gone. Otherwise sneak them out and scrounge some ammo, from bodies or vehicles. No hand to hand.

[BDW]

nope they are totally empty of all types of ammo. How do you scrounge ammo? I never even knew that was possible!!

[Lethaface]

buddy aid dead comrades or use the 'acquire' command when boarded on a vehicle with appropriate ammo in stock.

[Holman]

I honestly don't know if hand-to-hand is modeled in any way. But it's probably a moot point unless the enemy squad is also completely out of ammo.

[Waycool]

Can you buddy aid the dead?

[Fizou]

Waycool,

Yes.. you can collect weapons, ammo and equipment from them. These items may also be damaged/destroyed as a result of the pixel mans death, no way of knowing until you perform buddy aid.

Seriously wounded, red base soldiers, can be stoped from dying by buddy aid. They still wont get back to the fight but they will not turn to a dark red/brown dead soldier at the end screen when results are counted.

EDIT: I hope to see more on hand to hand combat as the game evolves. Even if no fancy animations are added it should be a part of the game.

[Waycool]

Fizou do you just move a section over to where some dead section is and the ai takes care of the rearming? I have never seen this as I play RT .

[womble]

Fizou do you just move a section over to where some dead section is and the ai takes care of the rearming? I have never seen this as I play RT .

Exactly that. The unit giving aid needs to be in the same AS as the fallen buddies; probably best to carefully place the end waypoint that gets them there while paused so you can see which green highlighted square has the best chance of containing the casualty.

[A Canadian Cat]

What @womble said but be patient sometimes it takes a while to get started (and it can take a while to perform as well). And if there is any incoming fire the will abandon the attempt and find cover. This will work best in a safe place.

[Jaeger Jonzo]

Very interesting regarding hand to hand. I don't think I have yet had a squad mixed in that close to an enemy one to find out. They always seem to duke it out in adjacent hex's. It should really be modelled into the sim as certainly was common enough in WW2. Would/should it not be part of the assault command? Ie they go guns blazing, grenades thrown, right into joining the same hex as the enemy then its fisticuffs and rifle butts/entrenching tools !

I am engaged in fierce close up fighting between the red devils and FJ at Primosole bridge with a human opponent and its certainly somewhere you would expect to see hand to hand going on as our men are 'indian fighting' amongst the groves.

with regards to buddy aid, I still think we should have medic teams too, it would very much add to the authenticity/atmosphere. I take great care of my wounded where possible in my fights and sure some others do too, though that would prevent needy soldiers grabbing ammo.

[womble]

IIRC, BFC have said that HTH fighting is "factored in" once pTruppen from different sides are sharing the AS. There are no animations for it though, and troops still shoot at each other for preference, so a zero-ammo team going at a team with supplies will certianly be at a disadvantage.

[Jaeger Jonzo]

I haven't seen nor heard anything in any close up fight to signify hand to hand fighting going on. Closest I've seen is a guy popping off his Webley at immediate close range!

[Wodin]

Away around the animation issue is maybe have a floating icon (similar to the surrender) but show a bayonet or some such above the units in hand to hand combat..maybe add some sound effect aswell..that would be ample for me.

[poesel]

Someone tested this a while ago. Emptied two teams of all their ammo and then walked them into one AS. Nothing happens. There is no hand to hand combat in CM.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I do miss the fist's of fury sounds from CMx1.

[Michael Emrys]

I do miss the fist's of fury sounds from CMx1.

There were also bodies flying about, weren't there?

Michael

[superwoz]

This is one of the worst aspects to this game. Buddy aid should be completely separate from collecting material from the dead and wounded. This game has so many well thought out features that's why buddy aid is so incredibly idiotic. As stated by ian.leslie it can take time to get started on collection, I've had soldiers almost lying on top of dead comrades that wouldn't pick-up weapons or ammo until I ran them away from the body. Stupid! And if you are trying to pick-up a SMG forget about it. This daft game won't allow the retrieved of pistol caliber weapons and the retrieval of pistol caliber ammo is spotty. It is maddening!! The acquire key is what should be used to gather all material not just in vehicles or bunkers. This is another of a long list of sh*t that needs to be addressed on this game by battlefront. But apparently they are too busy making new games instead of listening to their customers who want alterations to the existing imperfect game. :mad:

[Gamer58]

Does your squad have grenades left? Even satchel charges or rockets? If you can get them within range they will use those when all the bullets are gone. Otherwise sneak them out and scrounge some ammo, from bodies or vehicles. No hand to hand.

How do you collect ammo from dead units?

[Wodin]

This is one of the worst aspects to this game. Buddy aid should be completely separate from collecting material from the dead and wounded. This game has so many well thought out features that's why buddy aid is so incredibly idiotic. As stated by ian.leslie it can take time to get started on collection, I've had soldiers almost lying on top of dead comrades that wouldn't pick-up weapons or ammo until I ran them away from the body. Stupid! And if you are trying to pick-up a SMG forget about it. This daft game won't allow the retrieved of pistol caliber weapons and the retrieval of pistol caliber ammo is spotty. It is maddening!! The acquire key is what should be used to gather all material not just in vehicles or bunkers. This is another of a long list of sh*t that needs to be addressed on this game by battlefront. But apparently they are too busy making new games instead of listening to their customers who want alterations to the existing imperfect game. :mad:

A long list..really..you mus be playing something different to me. It has it's quirks but nothing that breaks the game or stops it being the best tactical wargame out there. The ammo thing is something I've never had an issue with or even noticed. I use my halftracks as ammo carriers and pull units out the line if they need a top up. Always seems plenty to go around. BF not only make new games but every patch and module and new game comes with a whole list of fixes and improvements aswell as new stuff. See, you no longer need to be mad;)

[womble]

...it can take time to get started on collection...

And if you even bother to think about it at all, you can come up with plenty of reasons why that might be. Why are you even bothered about it?

...if you are trying to pick-up a SMG forget about it.

This has been discussed umpty billion times. For an individual soldier who can only have one or the other, the rifle is the better weapon, since they can't know what they're going to be thrown into next, and the rifle is the better all round option. Why they aren't allowed to have both (AT troops often have rifles and their RL), is down to BFC's eternal fight against our gamey bastidge nature.

This daft game won't allow the retrieved of pistol caliber weapons...

It will if the aid-giver is only armed with a handgun. See above for other options.

...the retrieval of pistol caliber ammo is spotty...

Not that I've seen. No more than any ammo retrieval is.

The acquire key is what should be used to gather all material not just in vehicles or bunkers.

Oh, that Acquire key that would magically enable the precise recovery of all available ammo from what-might-be mortar-created dogmeat with fragments of LBE in a matter of seconds. Of course. That makes so much sense.

Maybe when Acquire gets up-complicated so that it's more realistic, "Buddy Aid" will too.

This is another of a long list...

Sure there's a long list of things that each of us thinks could be better. Equally surely, BFC know what's on that list and have umpteen dozen things that are ahead of a "realistic" inventory system. Things that have far more potential to alter the battlefield in the direction of verisimilitude than worrying about exactly when GI Joe picks up Sgt Rock's Tommy Gun to complement his BAR.

...sh*t that needs to be addressed...

Needs? You're mixing up "want" "would like" and calling it "need". Doesn't make it so.

...apparently they are too busy making new games instead of listening to their customers who want alterations to the existing imperfect game. :mad:

Would you pay for those changes? Would as many people pay for those changes as will pay for the new content plus a bunch of other changes? Rhetorical question, since that's BFC's decision and one or two users clamouring* to hold the historical period expansion to perfect the engine isn't going to sway them. Particularly since the historical period expansion is going a long way to opening up the East Front to all the people who prefer that to NWE.

Especially strident nonsensical demands for marginalia to be improved over basic engine improvements like, say, bridge pathing. Or would you rather they had spent time changing buddy aid instead of fixing bridges for the MG release?