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Urban Combat: share your tips and techniques that work for you


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You notice that the map featured in Bil and Ken's AAR has virtually no buildings. Was this deliberate? BF hinted at some city fighting improvements. Maybe they're not ready to show 'em.

The game against Ken is for fun and will highlight the equipment more than any other improvements.

There are probably going to be two more AARs.. one of which is HEAVILY urbanized, the second (me on defense versus pnzrldr) will also have some urban fighting, more town fighting than city which will feature in the first AAR referenced above. The first is in progress and they are setting it up, expect that one very soon. I want to give the first two AARs (the one against Ken, and the city fight) plenty of time to get going before starting to post the AAR versus pnzrldr.

Bil

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Have you considered dropping the graphics qualities back for larger or more dense maps? I mostly play with 3D Model Quality and 3D Texture Quality set to Better but for large maps (such as the 20 000 point quick battle and Monty's Butchers) I drop them back some times as far as Balanced. Clearly this is a compromise but if it means being able to fight the battles you want it is worth it.

Considered it? Yes.

Decided against it? Yes.

I tend to gravitate towards smaller battles anyway since I tend to lose oversight on larger battles (thus forgetting some units, an attack or even an entire front) so i stay with battles that only include about a company of troops or thereabouts.

Small to medium in quickbattles is another way of saying it.

Of course, if it is a vehicle heavy battle, it becomes easier to cope with larger sizes, but I still tend to gravitate to the smaller engagements.

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Considered it? Yes.

Decided against it? Yes.

I tend to gravitate towards smaller battles anyway since I tend to lose oversight on larger battles (thus forgetting some units, an attack or even an entire front) so i stay with battles that only include about a company of troops or thereabouts.

Small to medium in quickbattles is another way of saying it.

Of course, if it is a vehicle heavy battle, it becomes easier to cope with larger sizes, but I still tend to gravitate to the smaller engagements.

Dropping the quality might improve the handling of urban terrain about which you were commenting earlier.

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^^^^^

Using lower quality graphics helps the performance of the game. This improvement is especially noticeable when you are playing a game that taxes your machine. I mentioned it because I had not been taking advantage of doing that. Monty's Butcher was very difficult to actually play because on my machine it would studder and stop and take holidays drop to the desktop and back. Then I dropped my graphics quality two steps and it runs very smoothly. True, it does not look as good but I can issue orders again without spending 60% of my time waiting for the machine to return control back to me.

Yes, I need a new machine. I almost had the head accountant (wife) on board but at the last minute she pulled the plug:D

In your case dropping the graphics quality would mean you can get the same performance while using a larger area of city than you can with higher quality grphics and the game will play just as smoothly.

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^^^^^

Using lower quality graphics helps the performance of the game. This improvement is especially noticeable when you are playing a game that taxes your machine. I mentioned it because I had not been taking advantage of doing that. Monty's Butcher was very difficult to actually play because on my machine it would studder and stop and take holidays drop to the desktop and back. Then I dropped my graphics quality two steps and it runs very smoothly. True, it does not look as good but I can issue orders again without spending 60% of my time waiting for the machine to return control back to me.

Yes, I need a new machine. I almost had the head accountant (wife) on board but at the last minute she pulled the plug:D

In your case dropping the graphics quality would mean you can get the same performance while using a larger area of city than you can with higher quality grphics and the game will play just as smoothly.

Well yeah. But I commented on that earlier, so i thought he must have meant something else.

Like I said, i prefer smaller battles. And not just because of FPS issues.

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Now I am intrigued I have not considered other uses - what did you have in mind? Let us know when you try it out.

How about shooting through that invisible force-field some people like to lie down called "smoke". Use this same technique and you can fire right into the smoke filled area with no problem. Watch-out you smoke lying tacticians!

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Ian, I am always interested in learning about more subtleties in the game, but I think I have an explanation as to why it works sometimes, and why sometimes it does not. I think that the small movement given in front of the tank is just the bit it may need to get the shot to see the middle of the action square. That said the tank would be able to fire on the spot whether you gave the target order on a move line and moved it back, or just gave the short move line to where it was moved back in the first place with the target order. Either way the tank must have LOF from where it is firing, and the tank must move to get it albeit just a little bit. Try a comparison, and I think the results will be the same. The reason it does not work sometimes is because the tank has not been moved enough to where it does not have LOF no matter how you do it.

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I have noticed that my guns will often fire at enemy units I can't and are not even identified. So, my AI is doing work for me. Conversely, when I do see the mysterious enemy he's been firing at, it's very common that I can't get LOS or TARGET to that unit. The LOS issues are one of the most serious negative issues that mitigates against fun gameplay.

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I think that the small movement given in front of the tank is just the bit it may need to get the shot to see the middle of the action square.

Nope that is *not* it. At the 3:00 minute of the video you can see me setting up to fire at a building face and see that initially I have too long a move forward that does allow targeting to the desired building and I move it back and verify that from the final move location the tanks does *not* have LOF to the building. Then the turn starts and it fires on the building.

I strongly suspect that the location of the tank when it starts firing (or not) is a key determinant if the trick works or not but I don't know what the parameters are that let it work and what makes it not work. However I am sure that in neither case does the tank have a view of the centre of targeted building's action square.

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How about shooting through that invisible force-field some people like to lie down called "smoke". Use this same technique and you can fire right into the smoke filled area with no problem. Watch-out you smoke lying tacticians!

Oh that would be cool. I cannot tell from your phrasing if you are speculating or have verified that shooting through smoke works. I don't have time to test this today though. Can you clarify?

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Ian, I took another look at the video at 3 min, and it really does not make sense that it works as it did showing no LOS from the waypoint, but moved to it and was able to fire. Now I wonder how many shots I could have fired in situations where the LOS tool wasn’t giving a true reading. Also, wondering if it works with infantry too.

I did have a side thought that would be useful, and that is if the firing line changed color like the LOS tool when dragging a waypoint it would make it easier to find the spot needed to move to to fire on something. The way it is now one must make a waypoint, select LOS tool, check LOS, adjust waypoint, check again, adjust again, check again. In the way I describe one would set the waypoint where LOS is definite and set the target line. Then you would drag the waypoint back. If you move the target line to where LOS isn’t it would change color.

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I am currently experimenting with @sburke's Venafro map and so far it looks superb for CMFI.

I am playing sburke's "Venafro" map now, and I agree. He did a great job on it. It is the only map I can recall playing in Cmx2 that really looks war torn. It reminds me more of how one sees towns in war movie's such as "Saving Pvt. Ryan". Very cool looking map sburke!

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  • 1 month later...

From the 2.1 read me

* Dragging a waypoint automatically cancels any attached targeting order (prevents a gamey problem).

Bummer, because that means this technique will no longer work. I understand it was done for good reason but I am still bummed that my work around will not work any more.

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No way, what I was using it for and showed in this tip is a partial workaround for a short coming / defect in the action square system. :) Yes, I realize other things could be done with it that were bad. I still hope that this problem is addressed some day - preferably soon.

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OK, I will tell of an urban tactic I am using in a battle in Ribera, Sicily, July 1943.

AAR is here:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=111186

I call the tactic "Home Improvement 101".

I find the flying lunch-boxes to be something I can't control the use of, if it happens I am oh so thrilled and happy but often they are not thrown, so I thought to use them for something...

This tactic is using my demo charges to blow out walls to:

a. allow LOS where none existed before.

b. provide safer movement versus some other exposed route

c. allow command and control, eye contact from platoon HQ to teams

This example was a solid wall that looked down a long street, so I had a team blow the wall and then stationed an LMG there.

example1_zps63f3acaa.png

example3_zps7090dc6c.png

Here is a large building that had only teensy weensy windows (an actual military term) so we once again used the flying lunch boxes to blow a wall. And then also an internal wall since the platoon HQ had no eye contact with their teams.

example2_zpsc4095a70.png

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From the 2.1 read me

Bummer, because that means this technique will no longer work. I understand it was done for good reason but I am still bummed that my work around will not work any more.

The example I show below is not gamey, but rather makes LOS possible when it should be in the first place. The half-track clearly should be able to see in-between the buildings, but does not get a LOS reading since it cannot see the center of the action square only part of it. I did Ian’s suggestion giving a HUNT order a few meters forward until I got clear LOS to the center of the AS. When the turn started the 75mm halftrack did not move at all, and fired in between the building landing a round at the back of the AT gun knocking it out. The shot lands right on the crater by the rear AT leg.

Iantrick2.jpg

iantrick.jpg

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OK, I will tell of an urban tactic I am using in a battle in Ribera, Sicily, July 1943.

AAR is here:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=111186

I call the tactic "Home Improvement 101".

I find the flying lunch-boxes to be something I can't control the use of, if it happens I am oh so thrilled and happy but often they are not thrown, so I thought to use them for something...

This tactic is using my demo charges to blow out walls to:

a. allow LOS where none existed before.

b. provide safer movement versus some other exposed route

c. allow command and control, eye contact from platoon HQ to teams

This example was a solid wall that looked down a long street, so I had a team blow the wall and then stationed an LMG there.

example1_zps63f3acaa.png

example3_zps7090dc6c.png

Here is a large building that had only teensy weensy windows (an actual military term) so we once again used the flying lunch boxes to blow a wall. And then also an internal wall since the platoon HQ had no eye contact with their teams.

example2_zpsc4095a70.png

This reminds me of one of the FJ strongpoints in Cassino town - in the main hotel I think. They knocked down walls and built bunkers into the basement with an AT gun barrel a foot or so above pavement level

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The example I show below is not gamey, but rather makes LOS possible when it should be in the first place. The half-track clearly should be able to see in-between the buildings, but does not get a LOS reading since it cannot see the center of the action square only part of it. I did Ian’s suggestion giving a HUNT order a few meters forward until I got clear LOS to the center of the AS. When the turn started the 75mm halftrack did not move at all, and fired in between the building landing a round at the back of the AT gun knocking it out.

Oh that sounds good. So, you added a hunt order and a target command at the end. Then the HT spotted the gun right away and still fired. Do I have that right? Sounds like that will work for spotted targets but not for area fire.

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...in a QB against the AI, as a test, I had the LMG deployING in the walled room, blue line faced toward where enemy were approaching the house. The team with the DC have to blast toward the wall targeted for destruction, I paused the demo team a few times to allow the LMG to be fully deployed, and whammo! the wall was blown and my deployed LMG team had the drop on the enemy who thought they were heading towards a building with no windows.

Since this was 2nd floor, the demo team then tries to do the usual post-blast movement, but they cannot run out a 2nd floor opening so instead they go down the stairs and I could stop them before they ran out into the open. 3rd floor would give you even more time to stop them.

Maybe off-topic, maybe not, but which is "better",

A. 4 or 5 man team bunched up around 1 or 2 windows attempting to spot and aim and fire out, wall might be of only limited protective value.

OR

B. the wall is blown, now no bunching up, wall is gone, so no protective value, so they go prone, maybe like being in rubble? and it seemed that inward spotting was not perfect, i.e., the enemy out there looking in did not see all my team members.

Any comments?

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