New features/feature ideas for CM for the next few years thread

[Whiterider]

Waypoints with no infantry regroup orders. Where can it be useful?

In urban combats when you have to assault a building with two entrances and don´t want to wait outside while the enemy is shooting at you. Like it or not waypoints are neccesary to indicate exactly where your troops must enter. Waypoints shouldn´t force infantry to regroup if you only want to move fast without pauses turning directions.

[Michael Emrys]

Waypoints with no infantry regroup orders. Where can it be useful?

In urban combats when you have to assault a building with two entrances and don´t want to wait outside while the enemy is shooting at you. Like it or not waypoints are neccesary to indicate exactly where your troops must enter. Waypoints shouldn´t force infantry to regroup if you only want to move fast without pauses turning directions.

This seems reasonable to me. I've sometimes been puzzled or even annoyed by the pause in the animation when a team reaches a waypoint. It makes sense if real troops would need a few seconds to figure out the next leg of their move. But for most of the movement I plot it would be pretty obvious from the moment they start out. "Go to that bush and then bear left to that low spot twenty yards beyond." They wouldn't need to stop and think about that, they'd just do it.

Michael

[Whiterider]

I´ve thinking tonight about possible solutions:

1-Double click (instead of one click) to get a non-regroup waypoint. This is the simplest one.

2-A turn order for waypoints. Several WEGO games (ie Frozen Synapse) have a flexible system in every waypoint (you choose the number of seconds) to pause/shoot/move/run. You can fill the minute combining orders, obviously sometimes these orders can be broken due to enemy attack, but at least your troop will try to do exactly what you want. Example of orders in a waypoint:

1st order: Pause 20 seconds

2nd order: shoot 30 seconds

3rd order: Quick move during the next 10 seconds to reach the nearest building.

[Erwin]

Each waypoint could have the current default pause, but it would show up on timer so that if desired one could reset it to zero seconds. (However, personally, it's been rare that the current pause gave me any problems.)

[AlexUK]

I know it's been said before, but I think Steve has said previously that if multiple people make the point then that moves it up the list - a command 'throw grenades'. At the moment I am not too keen on a target area order as the SMG often shoots off all ammo, if a threat appears from another direction the squad may not react, and I definitely would like to be able to chuck grenades over walls/through windows.

[Whiterider]

Each waypoint could have the current default pause, but it would show up on timer so that if desired one could reset it to zero seconds.

Hmmm, interesting option to have a timer in each waypoint. It could be used for pauses and number of seconds shooting (not neccesary target briefly button) without complex additions. Just imagine the progress in tactics and flexibility that this issue can bring! :eek:. Yes, I guess it won´t be easy to apply to CM in a short/medium period of time, but perhaps some day...

[A Canadian Cat]

OK I must be thick because you guys are not talking about anything new or I am missing something big right in front of my nose.

Example of orders in a waypoint:

1st order: Pause 20 seconds

2nd order: shoot 30 seconds

3rd order: Quick move during the next 10 seconds to reach the nearest building.

You can do all that right now.

Each waypoint could have the current default pause, but it would show up on timer so that if desired one could reset it to zero seconds. (However, personally, it's been rare that the current pause gave me any problems.)

How is default of a non zero pause going to help me? I do not set pauses at way points in the majority of cases so this would actually slow me down if I had to clear them all a I set my way points.

Hmmm, interesting option to have a timer in each waypoint. It could be used for pauses and number of seconds shooting (not neccesary target briefly button) without complex additions. Just imagine the progress in tactics and flexibility that this issue can bring! :eek:. Yes, I guess it won´t be easy to apply to CM in a short/medium period of time, but perhaps some day...

Help me out guys. I am not seeing anything new here.

[Erwin]

"How is default of a non zero pause going to help me? I do not set pauses at way points in the majority of cases so this would actually slow me down if I had to clear them all a I set my way points."

This was in response to a comment about the problems of inf pausing at every waypoint. If there was a zero pause they would run right thru a waypoint like a vehicle does.

[Michael Emrys]

Hmmm, interesting option to have a timer in each waypoint. It could be used for pauses and number of seconds shooting (not neccesary target briefly button) without complex additions. Just imagine the progress in tactics and flexibility that this issue can bring!

As players we all secretly—or not so secretly—lust to have more control over our troops on the battlefield, something we share with our real life counterparts. But CM is meant to simulate conditions in whatever era a particular game is set. My own preference would be that rather giving players a degree of control that was not present in the 1940s, that the Tac AI be improved to the point that player intervention was no longer so necessary to get your pixeltruppen to behave in an intelligent manner. And it does seem that the game is headed in that direction, if slowly.

Michael

[Whiterider]

"Help me out guys. I am not seeing anything new here."

We all know you can do many combinations adding waypoints (it´s not something new), but at the moment not in one single waypoint. (see my post above) Imagine you don´t want to move from your position for several reasons: If you pause for 15 seconds then shoot, the unit will start firing from the beguining, they won´t wait. On another hand you have to wait to regroup infantry in every waypoint, like it or not.

[Michael Emrys]

Imagine you don´t want to move from your position for several reasons: If you pause for 15 seconds then shoot, the unit will start firing from the beguining, they won´t wait.

True, but there may be a way to work around this, at least some of the time. Best thing is not to start the turn from the position where you want to fire from. Give your unit a pause, then advance it to the firing position and give them a fire order there. Maybe won't work satisfactorily in all situations, but with a little planning will work in most.

Michael

[Erwin]

"...but with a little planning will work in most."

Wat eez dis "planning" u speke of...? I no find in manuel.

[Michael Emrys]

"...but with a little planning will work in most."

Wat eez dis "planning" u speke of...? I no find in manuel.

Correct. Nobody told Manuel about it, so he doesn't know. It is an ancient Chinese esoteric doctrine, known only to a few in the West. Fortunately, I have been given the most complete instruction and for a nominal fee, paid in gold, I can initiate even the most humble beginner in these secret ways.

Michael

[Ithikial_AU]

Probably already mentioned...

- An in game FPS counter

- The ability for scenario authors to pit opposing AI plans against each other so they can sit back and watch roughly what may occur in a scenario. Could be a good testing phase before handing it over to other testers.

- And the more time I spend with the scenario editor the more I wish AI plans could be designed in 3D mode.

[A Canadian Cat]

- The ability for scenario authors to pit opposing AI plans against each other so they can sit back and watch roughly what may occur in a scenario. Could be a good testing phase before handing it over to other testers.

That would be really nice.

- And the more time I spend with the scenario editor the more I wish AI plans could be designed in 3D mode.

Sounds like a good idea too.

[A Canadian Cat]

not in one single waypoint.

Yes, that would be nice.

[Whiterider]

As players we all secretly—or not so secretly—lust to have more control over our troops on the battlefield, something we share with our real life counterparts. But CM is meant to simulate conditions in whatever era a particular game is set. My own preference would be that rather giving players a degree of control that was not present in the 1940s, that the Tac AI be improved to the point that player intervention was no longer so necessary to get your pixeltruppen to behave in an intelligent manner. And it does seem that the game is headed in that direction, if slowly.

Michael

It would be cool if both systems can live together one day. One of them (the current) for units far from HQ and the other (more complex) for units in contact with their HQs. It is a good excuse to make it more realistic.

[Wodin]

At the moment the game has to balance between the Tac AI and then the need for player intervention to help it on it's way through micro management when needed. One day hopefully the Tac AI will need less of a hand holding. Until then the posts about giving more orders per waypoint sound great..I also agree that the pause at a waypoint is a right PITA when trying to get into a building with incoming fire . That pause can end up with you loosing one or more troops.

[poesel]

The 'no-pause' waypoint idea is really nice. AFAIK the current behaviour is needed to 'collect' all team members into the AS to plot their moves from there. Very useful for unit cohesion and programming the path.

I would not want to loose this functionality. Now I can say 'go there' and be sure that at one point in time the whole team is in this AS. But it sure would be nice to be able to rush through a waypoint which is just there to make sure that the team takes the right entrance. So the real problem is that we are not sure were the team goes.

Now some will argue we should not know that and that we have too much control etc... But we actually CAN control our truppen the way we want and the problem is one of lack of feedback to the player.

A solution would be to get a preview of the planned path of the team. Sounds nice but is probably difficult to program. I guess pathfinding is an iterative process running in real time. So CM would not know which path the team will choose at the time you give the command. Hence no preview possible (unfortunately).

Another option would be to be able to choose doors as waypoints. That would be way cool but since nothing like that exists in CM so far I have no idea how doable that would be.

[Whiterider]

Is it possible to make this thread sticky? In four months time we´ve got 40 pages! (about 400 posts) :eek: Furthermore it seems the good ideas have no end...

[poesel]

I wish we had the ability to set up a team (infantry, mortar, gun) so that it gains LOS to a certain target.

Something like an order (similar to target) which you give from a waypoint to an arbitrary target. The team then tries to find LOS from their AS to the target (they crawl around) with their main weapon. This takes time depending on type of AS and number of men. After the time has run down the main weapon has been set up to have LOS to the target or nothing happens / they say 'sir - we can't see the target / a visual representation thereof or somesuch.

In technical turns CM does a LOS for a finite amount of possible locations (8x8?) of the gun in the AS. If one succeeds - good. If none then it was a try.

Currently you know where they have to shoot and they know probably, too. But apart from FACEing them in the right direction there is nothing you can do if you ain't got LOS.

[Los]

I'd like to see some day Platoon AI where a platoon could be given the order to advance to X and Defend that area and the Platoon gets there, sets itself up and manages itself. Something similar to current AI plans but something you could implement when the game is actually running no just in the scenario editor. This would make it easier to manage larger forces in RT/wego or without resorting to micromanaging every last figure.

That and more robust scripting in the editor...

Los

[Los]

Another oddball cosmetic thing which I think has come up in the past. More variety in Animations on soldiers carrying their rifles and equipment. Looking to get a more natural movement impression for the whole.

Some guys should be carrying them at high port, some low port, some at the ready as in bayonet charge, it seems most Germans typically carry their rifles in trail (rifle carried in one hand low), until they're ready to shoot. Brings them a little more to life it seems.

Some cursory review of footage reveals this check out infantry on the movie by scooting around through these vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOb0hFCdSgE&noredirect=1

http://youtu.be/Br38z0LPlX0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcV-Mzd8gr4 (about 24 minutes in)

http://youtu.be/1pAPOifAaQY

Weapons crews should be lugging boxes of ammo,tripods, etc MGs and mortar tubes slung over shoulders, Slung arms, until contact is imminent. Anyway you can do your own poking a round. Once you know what you are looking for.

Anyway just in case your animation guy needs something to do

[kensal]

A couple of things I would like to see:

1. Hide command linked to covered arc - so that once an enemy unit is spotted within the covered arc the hide command falls away, and

2. A wider variety of tree and shrub models. In particular I would like to see a number of immature / scrub tree models as these typically have foliage closer to the ground than mature trees and so block los at ground level. If you see a real life wood it is often not possible to be able see into it at ground level due to young and scrub trees and foliage at ground level. Likewise it would be nice to be able to have bigger bush / hedge models that might cover larger areas representing areas of brambles etc. At the moment I think that the foliage available leaves the CM countryside a bit too neat and tidy.

[poesel]

I would like to be able to shoot at sound contacts. It would make sense and would solve some LOS issues.

The troops know that there is something so given the circumstances it is not unreasonable to order them to fire at 'it'.

In urban combat it is often very difficult to get LOS and you cant fire at the second floor because you can't see the ground AS. The enemy who had been firing at you ducks and LOS is lost - turn over. Now you are left with a sound contact but no way to fire back. This is very frustrating.

I think I have asked that before but IIRC got no reaction. IMHO it would be very useful to have and doesn't seem to be terribly difficult to implement (my guess of course). Yet no one commented on it or mentioned it somewhere else.

Ok, let's try this: this feature is much more important than Ostfront or fire - who is interested in that anyway? I demand immediate action!