rocketman Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 One thing annoys me, and that a lot of times lately when I try to take out a tank with satchel charges, my troops use grenades instead, toss a few then proptly get killed. Granted, they take out tracks, but rarely knock the tank out enirely. And they do this despite having several satchel charges. I guess it makes sense in the heat of battle, if troops are surprised that they use the quick fix - a grenade. But when hunting with an assault squad with satchel charges, to the rear of a tank with armor target arc and still they use grenades first. :confused: Why is that? Shouldn't they prepare a satchel charge and use that first, as soon as they are in range. I guess it is hard to code this seperate behaviour, but I would like to see it implemented. It would even the odds somewhat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik mond Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I wonder if it is the longer prep time for the satchel charge making it appear as though they are choosing grenades first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The whole close assault thing is abstracted out. Those grenades you see being chucked are actually an unholy mixture of Panzerwurfminenenene, grenade bundles, molotov cocktails and harsh language. The demo charges are just an additional factor in that calculation that have explicit ammo and get used "as they bear" (which is abstracted out). It's the same with whether troops use ordinary grenades when given a Target (area or explicit) order within chucking range: sometimes they use 'em, sometimes they don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The whole close assault thing is abstracted out. Has BF ever confirmed that to be true? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Has BF ever confirmed that to be true? I'm pretty sure it was them as tole us. In response to the "Where are our specialised and improvised short range infantry AT assets like we had in CMx1?"-type questions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Color me skeptical, then, until I hear it straight from BF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Surely if they have satchels charges and grenades there should be some sort of instruction that says use satchel 1st then grenades, then just use anything including your head. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 "Funny" story: One of my crack fallskirmjaegers finally got close (10m) to a tank and decided to use one of the precious satchel charges, threw it too short :eek: and got gunned down. Oh well, he tried. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The whole close assault thing is abstracted out. Those grenades you see being chucked are actually an unholy mixture of Panzerwurfminenenene, grenade bundles, molotov cocktails and harsh language. The demo charges are just an additional factor in that calculation that have explicit ammo and get used "as they bear" (which is abstracted out). It's the same with whether troops use ordinary grenades when given a Target (area or explicit) order within chucking range: sometimes they use 'em, sometimes they don't. Really?..colour me surprised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidFields Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 If it is like CM1, and I think it is, I think womble is correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Color me skeptical, then, until I hear it straight from BF. Given that, in reality, chucking grenades at proper tanks from 16 or more metre away is never going to result in any noticeable damage to tracks, let alone succeed in immobilising one, and given that IRL, infantry did routinely carry wurfminen, grenade bundles, and the like and these are not explicitly represented in game, do you think that's reasonable? It's plain as the nose on my face that there's some sort of abstraction going on, unless BFC simply "forgot" that such weapons were used, and have grossly overmodelled the actual effect of 2-3 simple grenades on armour. Do you really think they're that slack? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 ^^^ As stated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilts Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't understand this total reluctance for troops to use their satchel charges against armour. I once had a lone US paratrooper (vet) who was hiding behind a low wall waiting for an approaching Tiger. The Tiger, which was buttoned up, duly pulled up alongside and stopped at the other side of the wall about two yards from the para. The para had one satchel charge and no grenades. In the next turn I unhid him and he opened fire on the tank with his rifle! The turret cranked round and blew him to hell. What we need in my opinion is a blast armour command similar to the one we have for buildings and/or area target with "use explosives" like in CM 1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yeah, a "use satchel (or demo)" command would be nice, but rarely used. I'm curious about the rifle fire vs. a Tiger. Was the TC exposed? Also, the game tracks which team-member has the satchel. Unless it was just a single para (in Hilts' example, above), the satchel guy may've been unable to use it. FWIW, in CMFI, I had 4 satchels thrown at a German halftrack. Each one missed, behind it, as it careened through my platoon. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilts Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yeah, a "use satchel (or demo)" command would be nice, but rarely used. I'm curious about the rifle fire vs. a Tiger. Was the TC exposed? Also, the game tracks which team-member has the satchel. Unless it was just a single para (in Hilts' example, above), the satchel guy may've been unable to use it. FWIW, in CMFI, I had 4 satchels thrown at a German halftrack. Each one missed, behind it, as it careened through my platoon. Ken The Tiger was buttoned up, which makes it even more annoying! It would have been the perfect example of precisely when to use a satchel charge because he would have had plenty of time to prepare it (if required) and then just lob it over the wall as the tank approached. How on earth did you get your men to lob four at one vehicle when it was presumably moving at speed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Note what c3K said about the fact the who carries the satchel charge(s) is specifically tracked in the game. The same is for other "specials" Panzerfausts, Bazookas, etc. Further note that the specific position and morale of each individual soldier is also tracked. So... if the soldier carrying the satchel is not in a good position to lob it at the tank and/or is currently "cowering", he won't use it. While powerful, satchel charges are not really designed AT work and it took a fair amount of bravery and ingenuity employ them effectively as an AT weapon. Remember the part in "sticky bomb" scene in SPR where the guy blows himself up while trying to assault the tank because he fails to get away before the fuse burns down? That's just one of the things that could go wrong... So the game should NOT have units just tossing satchel charges like rice at a wedding every time armor gets close. Sometimes, if you're lucky, a unit should use a satchel charge successfully on armor. Other times, probably more often than not, the unit should find it difficult to use the satchel charge, due to bad positioning, lack of cojones, whatever. Germany gave a special medal to guys who managed to take out a tank by close assault. There was good reason for this... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Adapting the blast command, with it's waiting period, to include vehicles (can one already use blast on bunkers?) would be an awesome addition. That would simulate that it is not like throwing rice at a wedding. I would like to keep it's current use rather than replace it with blast because there might be times when one might want to throw a satchel charge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yeah, a "use satchel (or demo)" command would be nice, but rarely used. I'm curious about the rifle fire vs. a Tiger. Was the TC exposed? Also, the game tracks which team-member has the satchel. Unless it was just a single para (in Hilts' example, above), the satchel guy may've been unable to use it. FWIW, in CMFI, I had 4 satchels thrown at a German halftrack. Each one missed, behind it, as it careened through my platoon. Ken Last night playing GL's FJ campaign, Foiling Fustian scenario #2. As I was adavncing my force after neutralizing the Brits' first defense line, a Para took out an AS 42 that was slowly creeping through a wooded patch. I was certain I had cleared all the troopers out of one area, but while watching the turn, all of a sudden WHAM...WHAM! I thought maybe they had a small AT gun (but it was taking place around Primosole Bridge...Brits had AT's brought in in gliders there?...wasn't sure). Then I saw it...a single trooper that had lain doggo gets up 1 AS away, lobs a demo charge which lands behind the vehicle, taking out one passenger, then immediately throws a second charge that lands right inside it, killing it and everyone inside. The brave bastard was immediately gunned down, at which time a buddy of his jumped up and ran hell-for-leather back to the secondary line. I would have let that one go, but the TacAI is heartless, and took him out, too. Gawd, you gotta love this game! Great little war movie vignette added to my collection. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Do you really think they're that slack? Don't put words in my mouth. If BF is abstracting things here, then fine, so be it. I'm not accusing them of being slack in programming this sort of thing. All I'm asking for is confirmation from them that this is indeed the behavior they intend from grenades when used against armor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not. I'm also not going to waste my time trying to explain what a rhetorical question is. Try thinking about what your skepticism actually means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Try thinking about what your skepticism actually means. It's not what you think it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.