JonS Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 PLUS - and I think this is important - to the best of my knowledge of lurking and/or posting here for many years - JK NEVER brought up his website or beliefs on this forum until someone else asked him to confirm if it was his. So whether or not you think his ideas are "crackpot" or not, he never pushed them here. The only way you could believe that is if you have your 'thread skimming skills' dialled up to 11. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 To take but three examples from amongst many; Advocating people drink bleach is not harmless. Espousing the wackiest of the 9/11 conspiracy theories is not inoffensive. Constantly sidestepping direct and simple questions with spam and rubbish is neither polite nor good manners. Uh-oh, spagghetio. I was unaware of his views outside of WWII and have never seen his personal site. No, not harmless. This makes me sad. I think I'll self-eject from this thread now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I DO have thread-skimming skills dialed up to 11! He-he. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehunter Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Unfortunately conspiracy theories are not harmless. Basic human cognitive characteristics that were developed over the eons of hunter gatherer existence leave us ill prepared for the modern world. With-out training and development of critical thinking skills, and especially with the growth in information and communication technology, fringe theories sometimes become mainstream thinking. Witness the widespread belief that there was a cabal behind JFK's murder; The thousands of deity's that are no longer worshiped, the relative popularity of the idea the Nazca lines are alien landing strips; belief in astrology; the common practice of being selective in which part of an ancient text you follow (if you are going to follow a text from your deity, how can you pick and choose?); belief that praying for your sports team over another team works, despite all the people praying for the other sports team; belief that if there is a survivor from a catastrophe (despite all the others who died) that there has been a miracle; that a group of men can get together and select from amongst themselves the person who can talk communicate with a deity; and for me the most ludicrous belief of all, that just because it has been written down (a book, the internet, an email!) that what you just read is supported by robust and factual evidence. Well I guess that makes it clear that I am a scientist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Well I guess that makes it clear that I am a scientist. And I KNOW that now cause I just read it.... on the internet. Cause everything on the internet is true. Hi Dr. fatehunter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehunter Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 And I KNOW that now cause I just read it.... on the internet. Cause everything on the internet is true. Hi Dr. fatehunter. nice one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinoza Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 'It may easily come to pass that a vain man may become proud and imagine himself pleasing to all when he is in reality a universal nuisance.' Yet 'I have striven not to laugh at human actions, not to weep at them, nor to hate them, but to understand them.' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 "the common practice of being selective in which part of an ancient text you follow" Um, sorry, but that is the only rational way to use any printed object imaginable. The mind is a machine for coming to conclusions, not a 4 inch sewer pipe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehunter Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 "the common practice of being selective in which part of an ancient text you follow" Um, sorry, but that is the only rational way to use any printed object imaginable. The mind is a machine for coming to conclusions, not a 4 inch sewer pipe. Yes, you are right. It's just that I am biased against texts which contradict themselves. Excellent point though, we all filter information all the time. No I am not a scientist. My attempt at 'dry' humour. Good thread though. I should not have been callous towards his physical well being, however much I disagree with his opinions. I regret my ad hominem remark. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 "the common practice of being selective in which part of an ancient text you follow" Um, sorry, but that is the only rational way to use any printed object imaginable. The mind is a machine for coming to conclusions, not a 4 inch sewer pipe. I personally don’t agree with JK's views on things but we all have our deities that we choose to honor. Even “science” or pseudo science will make what it believes to be reasonable conclusion or theory without complete evidence. Faith means accepting things you do not or can not understand even when logic tells you otherwise. Yes, you are right. It's just that I am biased against texts which contradict themselves. Excellent point though, we all filter information all the time. No I am not a scientist. My attempt at 'dry' humour. Good thread though. I should not have been callous towards his physical well being, however much I disagree with his opinions. I regret my ad hominem remark. Ignorance can create a seeming contradiction and if we are selective or filter what we choose to believe then contradiction becomes subjective. What one sees as a seeming contradiction another can view as truth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Faith means accepting things you do not or can not understand even when logic tells you otherwise. If i can not or do not understand something, the only reasonable action would IMO be not to just accept it but to question why i cant or dont understand it. Just accepting things as given without questioning them is IMO the worst thing one can do. Ignorance can create a seeming contradiction and if we are selective or filter what we choose to believe then contradiction becomes subjective. What one sees as a seeming contradiction another can view as truth. If both are able to draw logically correct conclusions than the difference between the two who view a certain matter and see either the truth or a contradiction can only lie in the different premises wich the two use as base for their conclusions. If a colourblind person and one with fully functional eyesight were the only 2 humans on earth, they wouldnt be able to determine wether the sky is blue or green. However if they persumed that the sky can only have one colour at the same time, they could conclude that the difference between their perception is caused by their differently functioning eyesight and that the apearent contradtiction is not really a contradiction. So in this metaphor questioning what both experienced as given instead of accepting it led to resolution of the seeming contradiction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Just accepting things as given without questioning them is IMO the worst thing one can do. What?? :eek: Even Aris his Mods? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Now that s a good example. You could throw yourself to the ground, praying "Oh almighty Aris, god of re-texturing CMBN, i, the unworthy, bow before your divine and incredible abilitys, awaiting your commandments.". Or you could question the matter and find out Aris did nothig but combine laboriously acquired Photoshop skills with probably several hundered man-hours of work and a simple "Thank you, great job." will do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 There is no such thing as "complete evidence" outside of mathematics. And logic plus $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks (the logic being superfluous, as usual). Minds assess, reach conclusions, and act. The conclusions are not certain they are conclusions. Certainty happens in math and nowhere else in the universe. Not acting is not superior to acting on the best assessment you can make; the goal is not to avoid error, but to act intelligently. And not acting is not intelligent - rocks can do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 If i can not or do not understand something, the only reasonable action would IMO be not to just accept it but to question why i cant or dont understand it. Just accepting things as given without questioning them is IMO the worst thing one can do. Questioning is good and appropriate but questioning doesn’t always result in understanding and in the absence of understanding what do you have left? We discount faith as being a frivolous exercise yet we all engage in it to some degree. Truth is not relative, it is absolute but it is our own ability or inability to understand the truth that’s relative. There is no such thing as "complete evidence" outside of mathematics. And logic plus $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks (the logic being superfluous, as usual). Minds assess, reach conclusions, and act. The conclusions are not certain they are conclusions. Certainty happens in math and nowhere else in the universe. Not acting is not superior to acting on the best assessment you can make; the goal is not to avoid error, but to act intelligently. And not acting is not intelligent - rocks can do it. Unless one assumes to understand completely the physical properties of the universe then even “math” is at some point is devoid of complete evidence. There is nothing wrong with acting based on conclusion/faith, indeed we have no other choice but to do so however, to assume an action is intelligent is open to interpretation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't need to know the first thing about the physical properties of the universe to know mathematical facts with complete certainty. All the evidence required about simple abstract formal systems is contained within them, and no physical claim or evidence is needed for any of it. This just doesn't get one very far - all real action needs to go much further and leave the sphere of certainty without looking back. And what counts as intelligent action is not actually open to arbitrary interpretation. Action that achieves the goals its sets for itself, and that sets goals actually related to the well being of the beings doing the setting, is intelligent. Action that spastically fails to achieve anything it sets out to do is not intelligent, and cannot be "interpreted" into being so. We hit 3 kilometer wide windows in Martian orbit after 3 years in space actively trying to do so; that is intelligent action and reflects practical knowledge. The witch doctor shaking dead chickens over a man suffering from tuberculosis is trying to cure said disease, and utterly fails to do so; that is unintelligent action and reflects ignorant superstition. The difference between them is completely real and objective and no amount of spin can make it disappear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Questioning is good and appropriate but questioning doesn’t always result in understanding and in the absence of understanding what do you have left? Then you will have to make do with what you know and persume the most likely possible truth as true until proven otherwise, but just the fact that one fails to completely understand a certain matter doesnt mean that information doesnt exist and cant be acquired later or by someone else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 If some poor soul drink or bath in bleach because John tell them to do so - pure Darwinism , right there. I'm not offended by his views as I don't take them seriously. Length of posts could be annoying sometimes , true. But as a white middle aged male living in the big city in WE with access to the Internet , I feel privileged and spoiled enough already , so I just grind my teeth and scroll. Mob mentality displayed by some on this boards and character assassination - this does offend me a lot. Is it making John feel 'unwelcome' on this forum really worth the energy? Spinoza worthy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 No, you misunderstand. it's not the length of the post. It is the constant evasion, lying, misdirection, random changes of subject, and out right irrelevancies. Take a look at this thread, for example: http://ww.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=92954&page=5 Read from Kettler's post #47 onwards, noting particularly PaK 43s question at post #51, then follow the interplay between PaK and Kettles. So what do those things do to you? Personally I haven't ever use the ignore functionality. Can't be bothered with it, although I have a laser mouse with a very nifty scroll wheel on it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 We hit 3 kilometer wide windows in Martian orbit after 3 years in space actively trying to do so; that is intelligent action and reflects practical knowledge. The witch doctor shaking dead chickens over a man suffering from tuberculosis is trying to cure said disease, and utterly fails to do so; that is unintelligent action and reflects ignorant superstition. The difference between them is completely real and objective and no amount of spin can make it disappear. It's not that often that intelligent action versus unintelligent action can be differentiated in that way. P.S. sorry for the triple post 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I had no idea that wargaming was so heavily populated by Buddhists and stoics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 What you'd expect, Epicureans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Which brings us to the Friday night philosopher jokes... Where did the Buddhist philosopher go Friday night? Nowhere. Where did the mystic philosopher go Friday night? Everywhere. What did the existential philosopher do on Friday night? Nothing. What did the libertarian philosopher do on Friday night? None of your damn business! What did the skeptic philosopher discover on Friday night? There is no way of knowing. and of course, what did the feminist philosopher do on Friday night? "That's. Not. Funny." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Oh c'mon we all know what we really want the answer to. Is Justin Bieber gonna be okay? I mean the poor guy fainted!!! Maybe we should get him a washlet to help him relax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 First: wish John K well on recovery from his injury. Second: Most of his theories sound like shows from the History Channel. Should we start a History Channel is crap thread next? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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