SkipG Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The Manual notes one difference between Skill Levels Elite and Iron: Friendly units need to be spotted just like enemy units. If you have a friendly unit not in line of sight or in contact with another friendly unit, then the only way to find this unit is by either re-establishing contact with another friendly unit or by clicking through the chain of command in the game interface, jumping from unit to unit. While friendly units may not be spotted when the player has a particular unit selected, all friendly units are visible when no unit is selected. Is there something else going on that makes Iron a step up in difficulty? Something with the Tac AI, perhaps? TIA for responses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Is there something else going on that makes Iron a step up in difficulty? Something with the Tac AI, perhaps? TIA for responses. Nope. The "difficulty" levels mostly apply to the difficulty of engaging the UI to manage your troops. In some regards, since the AI fights under the same restrictions (loosened or tightened) as you, the fast artillery responses of the 'easier' difficulties can make achieving tactical success harder for newcomers to the game struggling to combine their arms, since the AI knows how, and the arty speed makes it easier. There have been suggestions that the command radius of HQs is reduced in higher difficulty levels, but I believe testing showed those impressions to be false. Basic Training is good for the first couple of games, so you can see how enemy status changes "in real time", and learn a bit quicker what it takes to break or destroy an element, but I, personally, playing WeGo, see very little point in going beyond Warrior; it'd just make me frustrated with the interface. RT would be a different story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Basic Training is good for the first couple of games, so you can see how enemy status changes "in real time", and learn a bit quicker what it takes to break or destroy an element, but I, personally, playing WeGo, see very little point in going beyond Warrior; it'd just make me frustrated with the interface. RT would be a different story. I agree. I have played all levels and do not find much difference in difficulty in WEGO between them. The differences play out more in real time when it is not as convenient to move the camera to know more about the enemy. I prefer to play in veteran since it shows what the unit sees instead of having to zoom to the enemy models to know more about them. One can find out the info in the same way only one is like changing the channels on the TV with the remote control vs getting up to change them. The only other real difference between Veteran, and Warrior is the different time delays, which is no more than a minute difference between them. I agree with womble in playing anything above Warrior in WEGO is pointless, and is just to make ones ego feel better. I have played them all, and like Veteran, and Warrior best. Basic is for total noobs to learn the game easier. Playing in Iron in real time is just frustrating. Frustrating is not fun IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Also, isn’t the whole generic icon thing pointless, since when you click on an enemy it tells you what kind of unit it is in the GUI? If that info were not displayed in the GUI I could see it having a point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Also, isn’t the whole generic icon thing pointless, since when you click on an enemy it tells you what kind of unit it is in the GUI? If that info were not displayed in the GUI I could see it having a point. Largely. The only way it's not is that you can, if you're very strong willed, not look at the enemy units; just don't click on 'em. But on the whole, it's one of the facets of the UI that needs some TLC. Just because your unit sees a chap with a rifle doesn't mean it knows that he's a member of a rifle squad, or an AT team. Especially if they've got their heads down in a half track at 1500m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I couldn't figure out the difference, either. I don't click on enemy icons, simply because love playing with as much FOW as possible. And as for finding my own units, since you can see all your troops if you don't have any particular one selected, what's the point of the difference between Iron and Elite? Originally, I thought Iron was going to be like the highest difficulty in the Take Command Civil War game where as a regiment/brigade/division commander, you are stuck down at ground level only...no God-in-the-sky view. But that isn't the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The Manual notes one difference between Skill Levels Elite and Iron: Friendly units need to be spotted just like enemy units. If you have a friendly unit not in line of sight or in contact with another friendly unit, then the only way to find this unit is by either re-establishing contact with another friendly unit or by clicking through the chain of command in the game interface, jumping from unit to unit. While friendly units may not be spotted when the player has a particular unit selected, all friendly units are visible when no unit is selected. Is there something else going on that makes Iron a step up in difficulty? Something with the Tac AI, perhaps? TIA for responses. The biggest difference is I recall correctly is the increased difficulty in keeping your troops in command. On elite difficulty the visual contact is much more generous than on iron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkipG Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Thanks much, guys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The biggest difference is I recall correctly is the increased difficulty in keeping your troops in command. On elite difficulty the visual contact is much more generous than on iron. I believe someone checked that and found it not to be true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 IIRC it was me that checked, and no it isn't true 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I couldn't figure out the difference, either. I don't click on enemy icons, simply because love playing with as much FOW as possible. And this is why I only like to play on Warrior. The trouble with Elite is that the icons are simple generic infantry icons even for AT guns and mortars. So if you are playing Elite or Iron you *have* to click on each enemy unit to find out if your guys have spotted something important like AT gun or not. If you play on Warrior then you can impose the "do not click on the enemy units" on your self and keep the FOW but you can still see important things like AT guns looking at the icons. I have one PBEM partner that likes to play on Iron so I play Iron pretty much every day. It takes some getting used to that's for sure. I don't really mind the effect of loosing sight of your guys when a unit is selected but I don't like the extra work and I usually don't feel it adds much - except extra work:). Occasionally, sometimes, for a moment or two, it is kind of cool when you have a squad that is cut off from the rest of your force to enhance that feeling of isolation. I would like to see Warrior and below kept the same and make Elite add better FOW support thusly: Any enemy soldiers that are spotted show the infantry icon and nothing else - no squad ID no HQ label. Once an actual AT gun is spotted show the AT gun icon. Again once a mortar is spotted show the mortar icon. That would mean that if my scouts spot a gun crew member - only one guy I mean - I would not know there was an AT gun either by looking at him or clicking on him he would just by some infantry kneeling in the bushes up ahead. Then if a few turns later my scouts have been watching for a while and start to notice more guys an then the gun, the icon would change to that of an AT gun but again not other information about what number of gun it was would be visible. That would be perfect and I would play on Elite as my preference. Right now I get close to that by restricting myself to not clicking on the enemy units. The trouble is that clicking on them is the easiest way to flip to view the camera from their point of view so I am not 100% perfect at it. It would be great if clicking on an enemy unit told me nothing more about them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I play on Warrior also. As far as I'm concerned the only purpose of Elite and Iron is to induce carpel tunnel syndrome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I would like to see Warrior and below kept the same and make Elite add better FOW support thusly: Any enemy soldiers that are spotted show the infantry icon and nothing else - no squad ID no HQ label. Once an actual AT gun is spotted show the AT gun icon. Again once a mortar is spotted show the mortar icon. That would mean that if my scouts spot a gun crew member - only one guy I mean - I would not know there was an AT gun either by looking at him or clicking on him he would just by some infantry kneeling in the bushes up ahead. Then if a few turns later my scouts have been watching for a while and start to notice more guys an then the gun, the icon would change to that of an AT gun but again not other information about what number of gun it was would be visible. That would be perfect and I would play on Elite as my preference. Right now I get close to that by restricting myself to not clicking on the enemy units. The trouble is that clicking on them is the easiest way to flip to view the camera from their point of view so I am not 100% perfect at it. It would be great if clicking on an enemy unit told me nothing more about them. I would like to see this implemented myself. It is tempting to click on the icons, and I do it occasionally, especially to check the enemy's view of the terrain I'm holding, but I would prefer just knowing if it's infantry, gun, etc., no more detail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I would like to see this implemented myself. It is tempting to click on the icons, and I do it occasionally, especially to check the enemy's view of the terrain I'm holding, but I would prefer just knowing if it's infantry, gun, etc., no more detail. It's a fast, even essential shortcut to see which of your units it is that can actually see the icon to target it too. And my eyes are usually sufficiently omnivorous that I am constitutionally unable to avoid knowing what the info panel says. I'd have to make a cardboard blank for the bottom of my screen and remember to put it in place before I used the handy UI help, in order not to see what is being displayed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I would like to see Warrior and below kept the same and make Elite add better FOW support thusly: Any enemy soldiers that are spotted show the infantry icon and nothing else - no squad ID no HQ label. Once an actual AT gun is spotted show the AT gun icon. Again once a mortar is spotted show the mortar icon. +1 to that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I play IRON. I used to play ELITE. In WeGo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 IIRC it was me that checked, and no it isn't true I just went and repeated that checking, and agree with you. Neither "Difficulty" level nor experience nor leadership level seemed to have any effect on when "Voice and Sight" changed to "sight only" and then to "Distant sight". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, there is an increased difficulty in keeping your troops in command but it is a by product of being unable to ID your own troops at a glance if they are out of command, then having to work through the command panel to find them. So, the parameters of command are the same as the other levels, it can become more involved in restoring command, however, due to the interface limitations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, there is an increased difficulty in keeping your troops in command but it is a by product of being unable to ID your own troops at a glance if they are out of command, then having to work through the command panel to find them. So, the parameters of command are the same as the other levels, it can become more involved in restoring command, however, due to the interface limitations. That's well-put, I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, there is an increased difficulty in keeping your troops in command but it is a by product of being unable to ID your own troops at a glance if they are out of command, then having to work through the command panel to find them. Or you can just click on the ground to see all your troops. Working though the command panel can be a time saver even in Warrior if you have a lot of troops and don't want to hunt around but I don't see how Iron or Elite make it any more difficult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Or you can just click on the ground to see all your troops. That's not as easy as double-clicking the Pltn HQ and being able to see which highlighted icons are near enough for command. Or does it pull them up anyway, even if the HQ hasn't got them spotted (could be in voice range, or non-reciprocal LOS)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That's not as easy as double-clicking the Pltn HQ and being able to see which highlighted icons are near enough for command. Or does it pull them up anyway, even if the HQ hasn't got them spotted (could be in voice range, or non-reciprocal LOS)? IME doubleclicking any HQ brings up all units of that formation regardless of C2 state. Also useful for issuing a formation move order particularly movement that is not exposed to enemy fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I always played (and play) Iron because I wanted the most realistic experience possible without having to figure out what all the different difficulty levels meant. What I would like to see are difficulty names that represent what they do. Maybe something like this? "Scenario Author Test - fully realistic mechanics, full visibility Beginner - simplified mechanics Intermediate - slightly simplified mechanics Simulation - fully realistic mechanics Simulation Iron - fully realistic mechanics, difficult UI" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuderian Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Iron mode is the only mode where you can look through the eyes of a unit and see only what that units see, both friendly units and enemy. I find this very helpful for finding good LOS between units and setup formation etc. Two screenshots of the same Hq to illustrate my point Elite Mode Iron Mode 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 But in your Elite example, the mortar, Mg and squad are highlighted, indicating ( I thought ) that you can see all three, but in the Iron pic, you can only see the squad ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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