Halmbarte

Four T62s attacking over open ground. One of them spots a M150 after it launches a TOW at a different T62. The T62 fires as the TOW is in flight. And the APFSDS hits the M150 before the TOW can hit, causing the misses to go out of control. I've known that it was theoretically possible to leverage the superior speed of tank main gun rounds to kill a ATGM before it can hit, but this is the first time I've actually seen it happen. H

A lot of the NATO tank's spotting advantage is/should be from fighting heads out, which isn't normal Sov doctrine. When I am playing the Sov one of the things I make a point of is to use artillery or MG fire to get the Americans to button up. H

I think the M60 RISE is still using a coincidence range finder, which doesn't help it get hits at longer ranges. Depending on which model T64 you're up against they can have laser rangefinder's. M60s vs T64/72/80 is a similar situation to US M4 Shermans vs Panther in WWII. You aren't going to win long range tank duels. Canalize them, strip the infantry off, & hit them from the sides. The big difference with WWII anti-German tank tac tactics and CW tank tactics is that the Germans probably never actually fielded a full strength Panther battalion in combat. The Sov OTOH... H

Huh, I had always assumed the 44 was a reference to 1944 and that the rocket was a WWII wunderwaffe that hadn't made it to the troops before the war ended. H

Every Marder in SF2 & every BMP should be able to dismount its ATGM too, but we can't. Carl & MILAN should be doable for anti-armor weapons. I remember the MILAN has a 400m(!) min range and I'd expect Carl to cover what the ATGMs can't. Although I'm suspicious of the ability of an unguided rocket to hit moving targets at 400m. My preference when I have RPGs is to set the engagement range to ~200m for better chances of actually getting a hit. H

Well, I guess that's better than a pointed stick... H

What are the UK infantry equipped with to deal with tanks? No HMG or ATGMs is going to be rough. H

BMP 3s are the best VBIED in the game! H

Will the boiling vessel be modeled and if it's destroyed or damaged will the AFV crew take a morale hit? H

I wouldn't say COADE is turn based, although it can feel like that at times. Realistic space combat is even more of wait until something happens and then something happens at 50km/s and it's all over until the next encounter. H

US infantry doesn't have that much organic anti-armor capability. They have a mediocre ATGM with poor warhead, short range, and an absurd failure rate, and a few one shot M73s that are better volley launched at ranges much over 75m, further reducing the number of kills they can make against Sov armor. The one flavor of Soviet infantry squad comes with an organic BMP that has a lot of potential armor kills on board, as well as providing reloads for the squads organic RPG7. The BTR flavor loses the BMP's anti armor capability, but makes up for it with AT-7s and AT-4s. I think of AT-7 as being what the Dragon wants to be, while the AT-4 is pretty much a shorter range TOW that's man-luggable. Either can be devastating in the defence or if pushed forward on the attack. plus the carrying BTR for either carries a large number of reloads. Sov squads aren't as flexible as the American ones and they really need their carriers to be very useful but they are organized to perform their function in the Soviet combined arms army. H

If my tank won't keep out sabot or HEAT anyway I might as well have a fast tank where I can use the speed to either a) minimize my exposure time or b) relocate to another firing position. Make the Sov go through the whole target acquisition cycle from scratch. It's not like the slower M60 can tank hits from pretty much anything the Sov brings in '79. The frontal arc might keep out T55's 100mm sabot but if I''m remembering right 100mm HEAT will take out a M60 from the front. H

The big problem I have with the M60 series is they are really big, really slow, and can't hardly handle hits. I think the Germans had the right idea with Leopard 1. If you're limited to steel only (no composite) make the armor just thick enough to keep out auto cannon fire. Pretty much any HEAT is going to be able to penetrate any reasonable thickness of steel so why try? Focus on firepower and mobility i instead. With the M60 we get a tank with thick enough armor that it's slow, but the steel still can't keep out HEAT from pretty much anything the Sov can bring, including RPG-7s. H

Going up against T64s in '79 can feel like a return to WWII with 75mm Shermans vs King Tigers. Except the Sov made a whole lot of T64s... Much like Shermans vs King Tigers you don't want to attack them head on. Get them to button up to reduce their situational awareness and hit them from the flanks whenever possible. If you can immobilize them move to make the tank useless or to a position where you can hit them from the flanks or rear. The other thing to remember is that those non-penetrating hits are still reducing the effectiveness of the T64. H

Really great points by domfluff. One of the things I try to do playing as the Soviets is run by recon pull. Investigate the back ways and push through the gaps to flank and bypass the Americans. The Americans almost never have enough assets to cover every avenue of approach and you avoid rolling up into the planned American kill zones. There are other ways to play the Soviets besides the 'stick you dick into the meat grinder until it stalls' methodology. H

The artillery is important to be sure. One of the things it does is forces the US tankers to button up, reducing their spotting advantage, and if you're lucky, breaking tracks and immobilizing them. In the case you're talking about, as I remember I used infantry firing RPGs to take out the tanks. RPGs will penetrate M60s from the front pretty reliably. H

The wheel on the bus goes round and round... I've seen the bug reported in the forum before. It is an annoyance, for sure. H

At what kind of ranges? At 2km out the Russian tank commander is probably using binoculars to scan with, and those do have a limited field of view. Don't put tanks w/o thermals where they can see for long distances. If they can see 4km away, they can be seen 4km away. Use scout teams to watch for approaching armor. Infantry hiding in buildings is a lot harder for thermals to spot. Once they are spotted ambush M1s from the sides or rear whenever possible (with ATGMs too). H

Another* 'victorious' war like this and the Russia will cease to exist as a nation state. H *Or maybe from this one, the jury is still out.

The logistics guys & the crews stole them to sell on the black market? H

Is there a reason to rule out a commando raid? Sneaking into an air base and blowing stuff up is a classic special forces tactic. Although the UA hinting towards special forces would hint that it was something else. But do the Ukrainians know the Russians know they never give a useful official answer so the way to deflect attention from the special forces is to say it was the special forces? Of course, this way lies madness... H

Yeah, I was in that one too. I want the West Germans but would be happy with the Brits too... Who am I kidding? I'm going to buy the module pretty much whatever the content* is. I get hundreds of hours of entertainment time so the expense per hour is very low. H *If we get the Brits we could use the Shock Force maps and make Iran/Iraq war scenarios.

If I were in the Russian government my long term worry would be the Chinese deciding to 'protect ethnic Han Chinese' that happen to live over the border in the oil and gas fields in Siberia. H

Purchased. H

Let the speculation begin! H