stoex

Indeed, a good thing to know! I have taken this issue and added a related one of my own and plopped them in a new thread on the general CMBN board, where I hope BF will be more likely to see it, as I think this is an engine deficiency which needs to be addressed.

As mentioned by Polo in this thread, there is an issue with information about unit casualties being passed along the C2 chain to other units of the same formation. While I am not opposed to this feature and think it is realistic in principle, the way it is handled at the moment seems a bit generic and not too well thought out to me. Aside from the problems with reinforcements mentioned by Polo, I have come across this problem when, for instance, I have a battery of Flak88's in the battle 'A Delaying Action'. If I spread them across the map (basically their default setup anyway), two of them are out of C2 from their battery HQ. Not only are they out of C2, they are completely out of view of their HQ, about 500m away behind some buildings and a raised railroad track. Now, as soon as one of these two guns gets destroyed by the attacking US troops, ALL other units associated with the battery HQ (whether in C2 or not), IMMEDIATELY go from 'OK' status to 'shaken', 'rattled' or even 'panicked'. Yes, panicked. And this although they are not under fire themselves, have no enemy contacts in fact, and also no way of knowing what happened to their comrades (at least not that quickly). At the same time, units from other formations directly witnessing the demise of the Flak88 (torn to shreds by howitzers) from 100m away remain completely calm (status 'OK'). I don't think the other units from the battery should be losing combat effectiveness under the described circumstances, but the infantrymen watching the scene should. Thoughts?

Thanks guys, for confirming my suspicion. And yeah, I agree the description could be a bit more informative, particularly since the caliber of these things is never mentioned anywhere in the manual. Cheers!

I was wondering whether anyone can explain to me what the '66mm HE' ammo is that my team is carrying in this picture. I kind of assume they are HE rifle grenades, but I couldn't find anything about them in the manual and quick Googleing didn't turn anything up either. If they are rifle grenades, why aren't they shown in the part of the GUI where other team equipment is shown with pictures, like the AP rifle grenade? Though that may really be a question for BFC as opposed to you grogs. Someone please enlighten me?

You can always do this, TheVulture. You do not need to plot a waypoint, just give a face order and then a pop smoke order and the unit will throw the smoke grenades in the specified direction. Try it in CMSF and see for yourself. This was introduced with patch 1.20 i believe. too late

Does anybody but me think the balance of the scenario is a bit off? I mean, tyrspawn is kind of playing a la-de-da style here as he states several times during the video (no offense, tyrspawn!) - he is giving RT-style orders, not noticing his reinforcements coming in, not worrying about casualties much, he leaves his halftracks and their firepower in the setup area basically, etc.... Yet except for the (badly timed) appearance of the M10's at the end, the battle is a complete walkover, it seems. My guess is it could have been more or less won with mortars and the howitzer alone if tyrspawn had just emptied them on the village and other suspected enemy positions. Don't know whether this is the final version of this scenario, but the way it was certainly seemed not to be very challenging to me. Thoughts?

Are you trying to indicate that I am cruel? Or mötley? Perhaps you meant that I had touched upon the crux of the matter? Or was that just random Boo-rish logorrhea? Anyway, thanks for making an effort, I guess...

This is a pretty weird thread, even as threads on this forum go... :confused: But at least I see we have some waffle grogs crawling over it already. Where are the maggot grogs? And no, I don't mean the groggy maggots from the Peng Challenge Thread!

Michael, To clarify a little further how this works (at least in CMSF): Whenever units that are carrying the same type of ammo (5.56, 7.62, Javelins, mortar rounds, whatever) are close enough to each other to share ammo, each unit's ammo total for that type of ammo (be it the coloured bars for rifle ammo or numbers for Javs and such) in the GUI goes up - to show the combined total of ammo now available to each sharing unit). For the purpose of firing this ammo, each unit now has ALL the available shots at its disposal (not really ALL, because at least in the case of missiles and such, a unit's VERY LAST ROUND can only be fired by the unit itself, not given to another unit). However, the ammo is not pooled and divided between the units, only shown as available and used when it is fired. Plus, each unit fires its own ammo first and only starts using another unit's ammo when its own is depleted. This means that if you bring, say, a unit with three Javs close to a unit with one Jav, each unit will show four missiles. Either of the two units could now fire three missiles, whereupon one missile would be left with the other unit and could only be fired BY that other unit. If you separate the two units without firing any shots, unit one will walk away with three missiles, and unit two with one, like they started out with. On the other hand, if you separate the two units after unit two (which started with one missile) has fired one missile, unit one will walk away with three and unit two with zero missiles (I think, correct me if I'm wrong, someone...). I'm not sure if and how much small arms ammo would be retained and not shared, but I expect there is some sort of limit there as well. Make sense?

Michael, To clarify a little further how this works (at least in CMSF): Whenever units that are carrying the same type of ammo (5.56, 7.62, Javelins, mortar rounds, whatever) are close enough to each other to share ammo, each unit's ammo total for that type of ammo (again be it the coloured bars for rifle ammo or numbers for Javs and such) in the GUI goes up - to show the combined total of ammo available to the each sharing unit). For the purpose of firing this ammo, each unit now has ALL the available shots at its disposal (not really ALL, because at least in the case of missiles and such, ONE round will always be retained by a unit not firing, meaning they won't share their last Jav with another unit). However, the ammo is not pooled and divided between the units, only shown as available and used when it is fired. Plus, each unit fires its own ammo first and only starts using another unit's ammo when its own is depleted. This means that if you bring, say, a unit with three Javs close to a unit with one Jav, each unit will show four missiles. Either of the two units could now fire three missiles, whereupon one missile would be left with the other unit and could only be fired BY that other unit. If you separate the two units without firing any shots, unit one will walk away with three missiles, and unit two with one, like they started out with. I'm not sure if and how much small arms ammo would be retained and not shared, but I expect there is some sort of limit there as well. Make sense?

Thanks for trying to enlighten me on the painfully obvious, Sergei. Believe it or not, I counted those pistol icons 3 or 4 times and always came out with only four in total. I didn't even get it after your answer, and wrote another long post explaining again that I could only see four. I only just realized that everything is exactly as it should be (well, except that the radio operator doesn't have his function shown on his pistol icon, but who cares?) and deleted my long-winded reply. Man, do I feel stupid . Guess I got too giddy looking at the excellent pictures. *sigh*

Coming in a little late with a reference to the beginning of this thread... Did anyone besides me notice that in Bil's PzIVH's, the radio operator appears in the text box on the left hand side, but is not shown among the crew members in the GUI? He only shows up there when he is manning the MG, it seems. At least in later shots, five crew members are shown in the GUI, with the bottommost one featuring an MG icon. However, while the others are named according to their function, this 5th crew member has no designation, only the weapon icon. In the early screenshots, he is not shown at all. This seems strange and somewhat counterintuitive to me - meaning I would expect all crew members to appear in the GUI as long as they are alive, like in CMSF. Otherwise, how do I know when one of them is wounded? Wounded men disappear from the text box after having been buddy-aided, which in vehicles is near instantaneous. I'm not a grog, so for me having a visual clue as to how many men are in my tank, and which ones are wounded, is important to me. Maybe not to other people... Also, this would indicate to me that the radio operator is not equipped with a sidearm - is this correct and if so, why not? Anyhow, this may have to do with the CMBN build this QB is being played on, but I thought I'd put it out there.

Sorry, LTCOL - a family is one base game and all of its modules as stated previously by Steve himself. So the next family will be Bulge or Eastern Front, whichever comes first. WWII will be divided in to 4 families with 2-4 modules each. See here: http://battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1190068&postcount=5 and here: http://battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1209312&postcount=25 and here (couldn't find the original post from Steve on this, but it's a direct quote - down by 'Time period & Content of Modules'): http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1136550&postcount=1 Just to set the record straight .

I see, that is strange then. Aside from the obvious variations in outcomes from randomness in the spotting routines, I don't have any clue where this might be coming from. But it would certainly take a large sample of games with a fixed set of conditions to prove an AI advantage. How many tests have you done, just out of curiosity?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned CIVILIAN DENSITY regarding this problem. Simply put, AFAIK, the higher the civilian density, the more difficult it is for BLUE units to spot RED UNCONS, regardless of all other factors. Conversely, civilian density does not change the ability of RED units to spot BLUE. I find both of these concepts make sense, since it is easier to spot a fully clad US soldier than it is to spot a guy who looks like any other guy but has a rifle under his cloak. Until he raises the rifle and starts shooting, of course. And civilian density applies the same way in urban and rural terrain. Don't know whether I am explaining this entirely correctly or whether it means anything in terms of the problems people are complaining about here, I just thought it should be mentioned. In this regard, it is not the AI that has a spotting bonus, but the RED (Syrian) side. Depending on civilian density, that is. And this is not a bug but a realistic feature in my opinion.

This certainly happens with the Syrians, their squads become Platoon HQs all the time. I'm pretty sure it would happen to a US squad as well, but I rarely get their COs killed so I wouldn't know. It only happens when ALL of the men from the HQ team are casualties, though.

Wow, 10 pictures...looks like someone really likes his TV

scottie, units cannot shoot through any dead vehicles, friendly or enemy. they can shoot over and under them, beside them etc. But if the projectile's path intersects a dead vehicle, it will hit that vehicle. On the other hand, units can shoot through friendly live vehicles. Units cannot shoot through enemy live vehicles, they hit them instead .

I suspect they will look the same as in CMSF - meaning invisible until you trigger one , after that a sign saying 'DANGER! MINES!'...

The answer is similar to your suspicion, Calibration: In CMSF, knocked out vehicles block fire for friendlies and enemies alike. Live vehicles only block enemy fire (that is, if they are well enough armored to block it as opposed to going BOOM).

And speaking of losses... If that US company suffered 5 losses a day, that amounts to 100 losses over the period of 20 days that you specified, JasonC. How many men in a company? 100 losses sounds pretty gutted to me . I agree it's not the same as losing 100 men in a 2-hour battle, but it's still pretty gruesome!

I think he probably meant January is out of the question for the release, and even if pre-order opens up tomorrow the release will be well into February...under the assumption he is making sense. And I give people the benefit of the doubt on that .

Steve, I think a LOT could be done to improve the issue of IDing enemy units by making some relatively minor changes to the floating icons and what information they give the player. Reducing the information offered by the floating icons (to display that 'middle ground' for IDing, the weak area of the current system as you stated yourself) would go a long way to resolving some of what is being clamored for here. The actual GUI information available by clicking on the unit could stay the way it is. This would give players the option of sticking with the current system (by clicking on contacts to see exactly what they are) or staying more in the dark of FoW (by simply NOT clicking on the icons). A further step would be to adapt the system to make the floating icons change their appearance depending on the level of IDing that the enemy unit has gone through. I understand that this is akin to changing the entire system, though, as such information could then just as well be shown in the GUI. But a quick overhaul of just the floating icons to reduce their 'precision' would already go a long way. Thanks to Mord for taking a first step in this direction!

DaveDash, I'm pretty sure that can't happen. My guess is it's a different guy going from green to yellow after buddy aid on the red guy is finished (whereupon he vanishes). WIA stay WIA, they don't come back to fight again.

Nice idea, Mord. While I probably wouldn't use such a mod myself, I think I have some pertinent suggestions, namely: Make a set of mods to give the players some options to match it to their play style: 1.) Make one version where all infantry have the same icon. This would be for hardcore folks . 2.) Make a version where (at least some) heavy weapons have a separate icon. I'm thinking the heavy AT stuff like ATGMs and SPG-9 could share the AT icon with everything else sharing the standard inf icon. Possibly leave the MG icon in as well. This is for the people who don't want to have HQs identified immediately, but would like to know when they spot an ATGM without having to click on each contact to find out. 3.) Maybe an extra-hardcore version with vehicles all sharing one icon as well? I don't think this is particularly realistic, but maybe someone else wants it that way? 4.) Important: make a set each for Blue and Red, so people can switch back and forth depending on which side they are playing. that way it will only be the enemy icons that are changed. Possibly you will have to offer each icon individually with instructions for players on which files to replace with what to get the effect they want?