stoex

Dietrich, This is not quite the way it works in my experience. As far as I can tell the availability of ammo has to do with the new ammo sharing function. See the second paragraph in my post in the NATO bug thread here for a more detailed description.

Lanzfeld, The 'visible unit' floating icon does vanish, as well it should if the unit that was visible is killed. However, quite often if not most of the time, friendly units who cannot see the enemy unit in question keep a 'question mark' icon in their last known (or assumed) position - until C2 comes around to tell them the unit is dead, or they go there themselves and see the dead unit. Even friendlies who CAN see the enemy unit going down will sometimes keep a '?' icon in that position if they don't know whether there are any men left in the enemy unit. Try it out by pausing and selecting several of your units when this happens to check out the differences.

Sergei, Two posts above yours - seems like the Syrian Army-clad fighter team was noticed.

akd, interesting test results. I'm 99.99% sure it didn't use to be so that you could resupply snipers unless they were using 5.56 or 7.62 (standard) ammo, like the Brit sniper rifle (forget the designation). I don't recall reading a patch note on this being changed, either. Are you sure you're testing this correctly, 'cause of course it would be swell if this worked. If you have a fully armed sniper with an M82 and acquire some .50cal ammo, it's possile that what you're seeing when he fires is just him using his pre-equipped ammo (whatever that is, sorry I forget all the terminology) until it's empty. Will he actually use up the whole bar in the GUI? In other words, if you let him shoot unitl he's empty and then resupply him with standard .50, will he resume shooting? So far I have only been able to resupply the snipers armed with 5.56 caliber rifles in the game and actually have them actually use those bullets. Remember that anyone can carry any kind of ammo, even if they can't use it...

c3k, I just gotta say this right now: completely aside from actual contextual value, your posts on this forum are almost always entertaining and tend to make me smile. Keep it up please! And NO, I'm not in love with you. Just saying P.S.: For the record: I also think snipers in CMSF are nerfed.

Not trying to be fussy here, just to get my main point across: Of course ammo sharing is abstracted to a high degree, and that is just fine. On the other hand, it is precisely that abstraction that provides the opportunity for fine tuning in favor of realism. All I'm asking for is a delay - Casevac has a delay in game, when a soldier goes down and is not dead on the spot, sometimes it takes up to 2 minutes for another soldier to administer buddy aid. I take this time to represent the time it takes the aiding soldier to drag the injured man to a safer place (even though this is not modeled graphically, which is fine), and administer immediate first aid to stabilize his condition and make him comfortable, as well as grab his ammo and possibly his weapon if needed. In reality, of course things would be different, someone would have to carry the wounded man back away from the fighting and place him in someone else's hands who could take care of him. Whatever. At least there is a delay, and that delay affects the entire unit giving buddy aid (since if you move them, buddy aid stops). While not realistic, this is a middle ground that gives some disadvantage to the player while counteracting it with the advantage of possibly saving a life. Ammo sharing, on the contrary, offers a great big advantage (even an unrealistic one), without penalizing the player noticeably. Heck, I could use the crew of my Fennek to resupply my GILL teams with missiles by just letting him get in and out of his vehicle every 2 minutes. It's the immediateness of the ammo sharing that really bothers me. I wouldn't mind the unrealistic range if there was a time delay to compensate. By the same logic, buddy aid should be a "touch" objective...

To be sure, Praetori, the soldier running up and down the stairs doesn't have to be modeled. It would be nice, however, if it weren't instantaneous the moment said soldier dismounted from his vehicle several floors down, outside the building, don't you think? Shouldn't there be a delay of some kind? It doesn't have to be a skyscraper for a guy to take a minute or two to make the trip...either a delay or a way to make the speed of sharing dependent on the distance (meaning number of floors in this case) between the two units would be good, I think.

Yeah, sorry, I did misunderstand that. I have some pertinent info for you nonetheless: In the case of my GILL missile teams, they never passed on their last missile to another team. Why your one squad gave their only Panzerfaust missile away, I can only guess. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the Panzerfaust is a weapon not bound to a certain specialist team using it? Dunno, in any case it seems to me that the ammo sharing thing, while a great addition to the game, could use a little more tweaking - though in the case of your issue making it more controllable without excessive micromanagement would seem difficult. Maybe no unit should ever give up the last round of ammo they have for a certain weapon? Then again sometimes you might want that to happen, too...difficult to find a balance there, I guess.

Precisely what I was saying. This works for any building height, by the way. Imagine a tall building you are using for overwatch - any and all units inside that building can be resupplied instantly as needed by a small team behind the building jumping into a vehicle parked next to them, grabbing the needed ammo, and dismounting again. Presto!!! No-one in the building has to move or undeploy their heavy weapons, and it's instantaneous regardless of which floor anyone is on. Not realistic for sure.

Got another one - relatively minor but can be a PITA until you notice, and particularly during setup. Thing is, now that units share ammo, a unit's ammo count shows ALL the ammo available to that unit, not just the ammo the unit is carrying. In other words, it shows the sum of the ammo the unit is carrying PLUS all the appropriate ammo that units around the original unit are carrying, ready to be shared. Not entirely the way it should be, I think. Example: During setup (Dutch campaign, mission 2), you have several GILL missile teams in Fennek transports. If you put the Fenneks close together in the setup zone, the teams will show 4 missiles each. If you put them far apart, they will show 2 missiles each. It's the same if you take the teams out of the Fenneks, by the way. Also the same for MG teams (any unit that has a numbered ammo count, not just the bars in the GUI) If you get the distance just right, the teams may even show 3 missiles each, which I think has to do with the fact that only one soldier from another team is within sharing range, not both. The graphic representation of the ammo is always correct, however. No screenies necessary as this is easy to reproduce... Another related issue is that ammo sharing 'distance' may be a little large and unrealistic in some cases. This is due to the fact that all levels of buildings are treated as one action spot for the purpose of ammo sharing. This means that if I have a GILL team on the roof of a 6 story building (without ammo), and another GILL team with ammo walks into an adjacent action spot on the ground, the team on the roof immediately inherits a missile from them. Also, units can share ammo with units out of LOS, e.g. through a wall with no doors or windows. Both of these aspects create opportunities for highly gamey ammo sharing (meaning you can leave a team out of sight and let it constantly supply the 'fighting' teams without them having to move, and without exposing the ammo carrying team. I wonder if a relatively easy fix for either of these issues is possible?

eniced, Yeah, I tried copying the .exe as well with the same result. Doesn't seem to work the way it's intended and indicated in the installation note. I also got weird errors when trying to load v1.21 games (PBEM or otherwise) in v1.30, including continuous sounds of multiple CAS roaming the battlefield (when there wasn't any CAS in the battle) and graphical errors like buildings not displaying correctly. What I have done to continue playing PBEMs from before NATO is to do a full reinstall of CMSF Base, Marines, and British, patched to v1.21 - in a different folder than my Base+Marines+British+NATO install of course. It does not ask me to license again when I first start it and my old games work fine there. Good luck!!!

eniced73, if you visit the GDocs page for your team and look at the appropriate ORBAT roster, you should see your name next to your chosen formation with the words "participation confirmed" next to it. I was checking for this myself today. P.S.: I finally got my PBEM problems sorted out yesterday and sent you a file. Did you get it?

Here's what I noticed starting the Dutch campaign. It seems the Dutch Army DOESN'T FIELD ANY RADIOS on the battlefield except in their tanks. My infantry and YPR's in the first mission certainly don't have any displayed in their GUI, and they are constantly out of C2 except when in signalling range. This can't be right, can it? Makes life a little difficult when trying to call in support or "storm the fort" as the briefing says (using a single platoon of infantry amounting to 26 men, who are all out of C2). Other than that, it's an excellent map with some really fiendish surprises, great work Sergei!

Sounds like a fun idea...I'd be game to have some wine, whatever the type. Maybe even some sturm . Anyway, sounds like there's a handful of us Viennese here, so it should be a good time! And yeah, the Germans beating us in soccer isn't likely to give their soldiers overseas a really big morale boost, haha.

Not to hijack the thread, but what's so bad about queen? they're a classic as far as I'm concerned, and I'm only 30. Which brings me to - CM: Another one bites the dust

I believe no one really knows for sure except the folks at BFC, and for some reason they decided to leave the player in the dark. Only thing I can tell you is that with choppers, the longest bar is the one for rockets IF they are available. In the case of fixed-wing CAS, the short bars are the bombs. Everything else is pretty much unknown. Also, the different types of ammo are not always in the same order in the GUI, it seems. Regardless, I strongly suggest using chopperson "medium" for area targets against mostly unknown enemies, since on this setting they tend to engage infantry in the open, light and heavy vehicles as well as infantry in buildings appropriately MOST of the time. On light they will not target tanks, on heavy they will rarely target infantry. Needless to say, this is one of the areas of the game I feel could use some more work . For point targets use your own best guess. Most things are obvious, infantry in buildings is a difficult decision, against infantry in the open I would use light for small groups of enemies (will normally result in cannon fire), heavy for bunched up formations, as the chopper will be more likely to use rockets to devastate them.

Also, use WASD to move the camera bit by bit, and Q & E to rotate slowly. One gets used to the camera controls, I guess it takes a little longer when you are used to a different control scheme.

If you see any spotting rounds, it might be good to "fast" to a nearby building. "Hide" will help either way - and remember to stay within C2 of your commanding officer for the morale bonus!

Sivodsi, point taken...this use of the word parapet was indeed unknown to me. I know just about nothing of military history and freely admit it. As I see from your link, you are therefore well protected against rifle fire, but there may still be a 2 tube-heavy-short-personnel mortar strike headed your way. It will just take a little longer to arrive than the ATGM would have .

About reinforcements showing up out of command...I think I may have part of an answer for that. In setup (and I'm guessing this counts also for reinforcements showing up, since they do so during the orders phase in WeGo when the game is paused), there is a delay of several seconds before C2 UI info is updated when positions of units are changed. Example: during setup, if you have a platoon lying in adjacent action spots, they are in full C2 (eyeball, mouth etc.). If you order one squad far away in the setup zone, they "teleport" there, but it takes a while for the C2 icon to switch to distant figure (or none if they are Syrians and you moved them too far away). My guess is this delay is also there when units move and the game is not paused, but obviously it is hard to test for under those circumstances, since how would one know exactly at what distance the comms method would change? I figure this may have to do with the frequency of LOS checks or something.

A parapet? You are seriously hiding on a roof? C'mon, everybody knows that cover on roofs is undermodeled! Bet there's an ATGM or a burst of .50 cal headed your way already! And you claim to be a CMSF player...

Okay....just did some testing on this and I have discovered that some things I said in my last post are true, some are false. And some things in the game are just weird. Also the C2 engine is a really complex thing full of nuances. Here's what I found (all in a test scenario without any BluFor): 1.) What I said about HQs in vehicles is true. They cannot achieve "personal" comms (meaning all those UI symbols that show body parts) with any unit outside the vehicle unless they are unbuttoned (or the vehicle is an open one, like a UAZ or a WMIK). This makes sense, since it's kinda hard to see someone or shout at them through vehicle armor. From my experience, but not from testing, this true for Red as well as Blue HQs. 2.) This one I got wrong, in a way...ALL Syrian formations have radios down to the company level, not below. Basically if there is a designated "radio operator" in the unit, they have radio. If not, they don't. HOWEVER: Syrian units on the ground have access to vehicle radios if they are in the same action spot as the vehicle. Sometimes at least...this is a little hard to explain, but I'll try. Imagine a Syrian platoon in buttoned BMPs. The three squads are in C2 with the Platoon HQ via radio. If you unbutton them all, they will be in C2 via mouth or eyeball or distant figure or radio, depending on how far away they are from each other. If they are close enough for "personal comms", the radios vanish from the UI. (I guess this means personal is better than radio, which makes sense as well). If you rebutton them all (which puts them back in purely radio-comms) and order one of the squads to dismount, the following happens: The squad begins exiting and loses all C2. When they have all left the vehicle and are lying on the ground around it, after some seconds, they are in C2 again via radio. I imagine this means they are somehow using an outside radio on the vehicle, or the inside one through a hatch or something. Fine. If you order the squad to move away from the vehicle, they lose C2 for good (the P HQ is buttoned, remember?). If you move them back to the action spot the vehicle is in, they no longer manage to use the radio and stay out of C2. HOWEVER, if you now unbutton the P HQ, the squad is imediately within personal comms again (if close enough). BUTTON UP the HQ again, and the squad is out of personal comms, but instead starts using the radio again, the symbol is shown in their UI! I think this behaviour might be some kind of bug... This lead me to test for 3.) Syrian soldiers (Bn and Co HQs) can only use their radios when they are not moving. After they stop moving, it takes them several seconds (probably depending on suppression as well, but I didn't test this) to regain radio contact and show the appropriate symbol in their UI. This is a fine and realistic feature, I find. It also takes units not equipped with radios several seconds to establish radio comms after entering a vehicle. This quick test into C2 behaviour shows me that the whole C2 thing is even more complex than it looks, and I for one applaud BFC for putting this much thought into it (aside from what I mentioned might be a bug ). Opinions?

Pandur (and all who are interested), One thing I know for sure, and which is noticeably missing from your explanation regarding Syrian C2, is this: Putting Red (or Blue for that matter) HQ units inside vehicles has another disadvantage besides the loss of firepower: Unless the HQ unit inside the vehicle is unbuttoned, it is unable to establish eye or voice or hand signal contact with any units outside! You can see this easily as there are no eyeball, mouth or distant figure symbols in the UI for such a buttoned HQ unit, and no coms symbols in the UI at all for the subordinates of that HQ unless they have radios or RPDAs/FBCB2. This is the reason why I tend not to put HQs in vehicles at all when playing Red. I feel I'm better off losing C2 to higher echelons when playing the Syrians than if I keep their HQs unbuttoned in vehicles within shouting distance to their squads. In my opinion this amounts to begging for those HQs to get shot, which in turn is far worse for the squads' morale than a broken C2 link to Bn HQ. And another thing which is important in this respect: Syrian Mech Infantry squads have radios, as do Airborne, Rep. Guards and Special Forces squads (not sure about the rest but I just checked the Mech infantry). Pandur made it sound like Syrian infantry squads don't have radios by definition. I think it's just the regular and reserve infantry who don't have radios available to the squads.

Careful, Erwin...depending on what odds you are giving, there might be some people who would gladly organize Armageddon tomorrow in exchange for a quick buck...

That's the gist of it, yes.