Blazing 88's

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

UKR M1A1 Abrams with ARAT ERA kit

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

It's because russia is losing and the war may not be over before the end of 2024. It won't look good to release a game about the war in Ukraine as the war will still be going on.... 
I  am pro-Ukrainian just calling it like I see it.
 
I hope I am wrong and this is all over soon and in a positive way for the Ukrainian people

Couldn't agree more.
This is a good time for my sig to pop up!!  😶

That's going to make for some boring war games in the future.
But we'll always have CMCW.

I would like to see North Africa campaigns too just saying  and hope battlefront give  us africa module for Fortress italy one day 🙂

Just going to pull on this one because frankly this is becoming a waste of time - we sent one dooms day cultist on vaycay and we get another right behind him.
But let’s unpack your expertise on reconstruction business for just as second.  Hmm, now I wonder just how scared US and western businesses were in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We poured hundreds of billions into those two countries and western companies lined up to get in on it…saw em with my own eyes.
But for “reasons” cruise missiles are somehow scarier than getting one’s head sliced off by insurgents or IED’d.  
Let me as blunt as I can be - you do not know what you are talking about.  Nothing in what the US just said points to abandonment of Ukraine.  Nor would a shift toward self-sustainment somehow chase off all support.  Why?  Because money talks. It actually makes a lot of sense and has been the long term playbook for partners globally since the 90’s.
But clearly you are in the Zeleban camp where everything is falling apart and the end is inevitable.  I strongly support what we are doing in this war.  I support a free independent and secure Ukraine.  Ukrainian resistance and then defence will go down in history as one of the great military actions.  
But every time someone from your end of things comes in here and plays this same old song - I do not want to call my MP and demand greater support for Ukraine.  I want to call them and say we should “cut and run” because if this is what Ukrainian steadfast resolve looks like we are likely backing another bad partner.
Now, I know that you, nor Zeleban represent your people.  For some reason we are collecting these types but I see Ukraine fighting and defending itself under extreme duress everyday.  I see people make sacrifices and staring into that abyss with resolve and determination.  Pull yourself together and honour what they are doing.  You do them no service coming here and pushing this sort of outright disinformation.  
I honestly miss kraze at this point.

I do think this thread and tends to underestimate how important AFVs are and especially IFVs.

Yes, they are more easily seen on the modern battlefield and a lot of systems can kill them. However, western IFVs have way better crew survival rates. Ukrainian soldiers have repeatedly made comments to that effect. They seem critical in keeping the friendly frontline supplied and manned. They also seem critical in making attacks and raids on the near enemy frontline. And when they do have the opportunity to fire on the enemy they can often be devastating. I guess I've seen this thread drift increasingly against IFVs because of their inability to be used operationally in an effective manner but it seems to me that the result is missing the day-to-day tactical benefits of having access to them. They are not going to drastically change the operational/strategic situation but my sense is that they matter quite a bit for the average Ukrainian squad. And for Ukraine preserving manpower seems absolutely critical so if ~200 BFVs get supplied and burnt up to save some lives ~ even if it doesn't move the operational needle. That is important.


To reframe this a bit I think some of the discussion mixes up what would be useful in Ukraine's situation and spending priorities in western military industrial complexes. Operationally it looks like AFVs aren't making the big moves they used to, and that matters a lot if you are the U.S. military looking forward to the next 5-10 years. However, for Ukraine these vehicles exist today and provide a service even though they aren't the big movers they used to be. 



If I were to make a wishlist to Uncle Same for Ukraine it would be:
1. Long range PGMs (MLRS and so on)
2. short range PGMs (kamikaze drones and such)
3. Give everyone a Bradley
4. anything else
 
edit: @TheCaptain i guess cause we've talked about this a few times. Double edit trying to clean this up because I feel like my post is sort of messily organized.

Ah...the most pernicious Russian agitprop of all. 
A give that 9.9 on the Solovyov scale, at least.  

I'm strongly leaning towards the latter. He seems mightily invested in pushing the "bow down before the might of the unstoppable Russian bear" line.

You are clearly either delusional or this is just a deliberate campaign of mis- information - I'll be blocking you going forwards .

🤣  yep any day now!

here we go again.  Russian armies sweeping to the channel!  As soon as they can get passed Avdiivka.  Any day now, you just wait, then it's on to Paris via Kiev!!!

Ok so let's end all this horsesh#t.  The great thing about the US is that they put everything out to the public.  No other nation on earth is as transparent.  So here is what Miller actually said:
https://www.state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-january-4-2024/
First as to "no more money"
"QUESTION: Thank you. Let’s discuss Ukraine a little bit. How long will the latest package that you guys have sent already in December will give operations until they run out of funding again?
MR MILLER: I will let Ukraine speak to that because that pertains to – and my colleagues at the Pentagon may have some additional insight to offer on this. But ultimately, that’s a question to Ukraine to speak to because it goes to their rate of expenditure and other really military questions.
But I will say that we do need Congress to act. We are out of funding here. We know that we need to continue to support Ukraine. They need – they rely on this assistance. They rely on it to continue to fight what is a brutal Russian assault that continues, even over the – that continues every day. And so it’s important for Congress to act to continue to fund this democracy that is continuing to defend itself."
That is all about pushing Congress to act.  Inside DC baseball, not a US intent to cut off all funding.
As to current state of the war:
"QUESTION: And would you say that, given the latest developments, that the war is turning in Russia’s favor?
MR MILLER: No, I wouldn’t say that at all. I think people forget oftentimes the actual stakes of this war and what Vladimir Putin’s actual goal was, and what Ukraine has actually achieved and what it continues to achieve. Remember that Putin launched this as a war of total conquest where he wanted to take over Ukraine. He wanted to throw the government out of power. He wanted to subsume Ukraine inside Russia. Not only was Ukraine able to prevent that from happening, which everyone sort of takes for granted now but it was very not – it was very much not a settled question at the start of this war – they have managed to retake around half of the territory that Russia seized in the opening weeks of the war.
And even in the past few weeks, they continue to make battlefield gains. Remember the – over the last summer we were talking about the difficulty when Russia pulled out of the Black Sea Grain Initiative, and it looked like Ukraine wasn’t going to be able to continue to export grain. Well, because of advances that Ukraine made to open a Black Sea lane and expel the Russian fleet from certain parts of the Black Sea, they are now able to continue to export grain, which is critical to their economy.
So there are going to be battlefield developments back and forth, where you see each side gaining or losing territory. But when you look at the ultimate stakes of this war, it’s quite clear that Ukraine is going to exit this war independent, strong, with an improved economy, and looking west when what Russia wanted at the outset was not just a Ukraine that was looking east but Ukraine that was actually part of Russia."
Boy this sounds familiar...because some on this thread have been saying it all along.
And as to the statement that has some people running around like the panicky idiot in a bad plane crash movie:
"QUESTION: As long as it takes?
MR MILLER: As long as it takes. That does not mean that we are going to continue to support them at the same level of military funding that we did in 2022 and 2023. We don’t think that should be necessary because the goal is to ultimately transition Ukraine – to use the language that you repeated back – to stand on its own feet and to help Ukraine build its own industrial base and its own military industrial base so it can both finance and build and acquire munitions on its own. But we are not there yet, and that is why it is so critical that Congress pass the supplemental funding bill, because we are not yet at the point where Ukraine can defend itself just based on its own. And it’s why that it continues to be important for Congress to support Ukraine and continues to be important for our European allies and others throughout the world to support Ukraine."
From a State Dept talking head no less.
Oh, ya that totally says that "Ukraine is totally cut off and will have to build its own tanks from here on out."  You know we should totally freak out now and point to every Russian leg twitch as a major victory, while screaming "Ukraine is doomed!!" From the heights of the thread.
So "yes" I am saying the US will backstop a Ukrainian MIC as it plans for a transition away from tactical handouts to long term strategic sustainment...just like they did in South Korea.  But hey you wanna be "soundbite panic guy" on the thread, go right ahead.  
 

The generous response to this would be 'you are reading too much into the article - that's not what it says'.  In the UK we have a less generous, single-word response that I think is probably more appropriate, though.
 
Fixed that for you.
 
You do seem to spend a lot of your time intentionally 'interpreting' what people write in order to fit your 'all is lost' narrative.
The point of the response you laughed off here was, I think, to ask what Ukraine's plan is?  For the first year or so, Ukraine were in panicky, dear-god-they're-invading-help-please-send-whatever-you-can mode.  Where is Ukraine now?  Two years in, what is Ukraine's strategy for winning this war?  Surely it's not to rely on free equipment sent in by foreign nations?  I mean, I think Ukraine can rely on US/EU providing as much support as they can (given the various other factors at play) but it would be idiotic to rely on that and make no other plans to defend your country, right?  Perhaps if we knew more from Ukraine about what they are trying to do then we could all offer more insightful opinions as to how the US/EU could help.
 
Your apparent understanding of how Western European people think is frankly stunningly inaccurate.
To be blunt, people in Western Europe don't give a solitary, flying **** about Russia.  They don't.  No-one talks about Russia, worries about Russia or even less considers Russia's strength when they go to the ballot box.  Ask people in the UK about Russia and they will talk about Salisbury, the World Cup and the ongoing war with Ukraine.  Some of them might remember 2014.  A few more will remember the Kursk tragedy because the Russians turned down British help to rescue the crew.  Beyond that it's probably all Yeltsin and pre-90s stuff.
What you think seems to be a reflection of Russia's own internal propaganda line -  that the West spends all its time envying and plotting against the mighty Russian people.  It's just bollocks (oh, there we are - the one-word response made it into print after all).