Edwin P.

Iron Ranger I like the idea of giving England two reduced strength corps in Egypt. I would also give the UK the option to receive a free Corps from South Africa. They could decide to have it appear in Egypt or the South Atlantic. Perhaps they should have the same choice with the Australian and Indian Corps - do they go to Egypt or the South Atlantic? Your advanced Version " The landing must be acomplised the same turn the unit boards the transport (only for port-ship-land not port to port)." would give the Axis too much of an advantage. For example: UK & US units could only invade France along the shores of Brest, assuming that they used Manchester and London's port was knocked out. The Allies could never even threaten to liberate a conqured Spain or launch a rain on Greece from Egypt. Futhermore, I think that the transit hex around Africa should be made into a two way hex to allow the allies the opportunity to run away to fight another day. If that change was made I could see an allied player committing several surface ships to the defense of Egypt. [ October 25, 2003, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I say lets give Turkey a % chance to Annex Iraq if Egypt falls to the Axis and a chance to Annex Vichy Syria if the Axis attack Vichy France. This would often, but not always, preclude the MPP boost Germany receives from conquering Iraq. Germany attacking Iraq after Turkey annexed it would cause Turkey to enter the war and may trigger the early entry of Russia. Ah, now if only the map could extend south about 10 hexes you could see UK staging areas in Kenya and Oman, the true extent of the Sahara and the jungles of Ethiopia. [ October 24, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

If you want to show greater US war production without making every US hex a city hex then; 1> Increase the maximum value of US cities to 30 (instead of 10)but start them at 10. With this method you will see US production reach full production 20 turns (almost 1 year) after it enters the war. or 2> Give the US one level in Industrial tech every 6 months automatically or 3> Give the US one level in industrial tech every six months and allow the US to reach Industrial Tech Level 10 (a 50% reduction in the cost of each unit). PS: After Japan falls in 1946 the US should start receiving units via the Panama Canal. Thus providing the Allied player incentive to fight on if he has managed to survive until then. PSS: A successful Sea Lion should trigger a US Siberian transfer with ships coming from the from the Pacific Fleet. [ October 24, 2003, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

In my view, the carrier advantage reflects the fact that they are a moving target, unlike land airbases. Also, a carrier has to return to port for repair whereas an air fleet can be repaired at his airbase. [ October 23, 2003, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

If you want to hurt German production go for Norway then Sweden. If you want to relieve pressure on the Russian front then go for France. You can support any invasion of France with air fleets based in the UK. The key is to launch an invasion only after the US has built a HQ unit and you have your 3 UK carriers available for support. PS: Target the Axis Airfleets before all else. Thats a loss of 400MPP that the Axis will find hard to replace.

The AI used in chess programs usually starts with a library of moves that the AI can use as a starting point for evaluating its next move. In war planning many operational plans are developed which are modified for the actual situation. To a large extent any AI has to be aware of a potential strategy/method for achieving a goal. Then such a routine can be incorporated into its logic - be it a structured routine or fuzzy logic. For example: The strategy of moving the French Air Fleet to the UK and disbanding it after France Surrenders to give the UK a MPP bonus. If the AI is fearful of a Sea Lion (based on prior history with that player stored in a file) it may decide to maximize its UK MPP balance by moving the UK Air Fleet to northern UK and disband it after France falls. A pre-written routine covers this and simplifies the thinking process for the AI. Simplified Example: Saved Opponent File: Axis Human launches Sea Lion 25%(Ie in prior games against the AI the Axis Human player tried a Sea Lion Invasion 25% of the time, this fact is saved in a file much like a human player stores a record of his opponents strategies) AI: IF Prior Game Human Strategy includes Sea Lion >= 20% then AI Accesses Sea Lion Defense Stategy 30%, Full Sea Lion Defense 10% IF Prior Game Human Strategy includes Sea Lion >50% then AI access Sea Lion Defense Strategy 30%, Full Sea Lion Defense 30%. As part of the Sea Lion Defense strategy you might have a routine that tells the AI to consider moving French Air Fleet to Northern UK and disbanding it after France Falls. One thing that I would like to see the AI do is maintain a Prior Game Human Strategy File so it can better counter moves made by the Human player. Example: If the Allied Human player usually tries the LC gambit then the AI knows this and can prepare for it. If not then the Axis AI follows it normal war plan. -------------------------------- PS: I just played a game against the Axis AI at Expert Level 2, Experience Level 2 The AI took Warsaw but totally igored the 3 surviving polish units in Eastern Poland. Poland never surrendered until Russian Prepared for War. At that time the Axis consisted of just 3 countries - Germany, Italy and France. It never attacked the Low Countries or Denmark. An improved AI would have at least 2 Axis units hunt down the surviving Polish units until Poland Surrendered. Example: If Axis Control Warsaw and Poland has not surrendered and Polish surviving units greater than 1 (based on total of units destroyed) then Seek Out and Destroy Polish units in Polish controlled hexes with 2 units per Polish surviving unit above 1. In the same game the Maginot line held for a long time (even though the AI had experience +2) as the AI did not concentrate its air attacks on a single Maginot hex. Merely moving a naval unit in range of the coast or an infantry unit into a clear hex behind the front line would draw the fire of the AI's Air Units. I would have liked to see the AI concentrate its fire on a unit that could be destroyed instead of attacking units it could only damage. Also the advancing Russian army was able to isolate 3 Axis HQs - 2 German and 1 Italian next to Albania where they were supporting 1 italian unit and 4 minor power units. There were no HQs in France to support the defense of France nor any in Germany. [ October 22, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Thanks to Les the Sarge I recently visited the WIF site and downloaded a copy of their rules. Here I found an interesting option - over 50 actions that the US player can select from while they are still neutral. Adding a similar feature to SC2 would make the game more interesting for the Allied player who just sits and watches while the Axis player acts like an out of control steamroller. For example, in SC Format: At specified war readiness levels the Allied (ie US) player can select a single action from a randomly generated list of 10 (or 12) available options. Example: At 40% and 70% readiness levels -the US can select one of the following options: 1. Lend Lease to the UK Send 15MPP per turn to UK until the US enters the war via Merchant ships 2. Lend Lease to Soviet Union Send 15MPP per turn to USSR " 3. Lend Lease to France Send 15MPP per turn to France " 4. US Gives Retired Cruiser to England UK recieves cruiser 5. US Air Units are activated but can not leave the US and can attack German units within Range 6. US Naval Yards Repair Allied Ships. Allied ships can be repaired in Neutral US ports using US MPPs. 7. French ships can enter US ports and become US units if France surrenders 8. US Government increases research spending US can Invest 1 of its 2 chits in a tech area while still neutral. 9. US ships can freely attack Axis ships while US is Neutral. 10. US produces Bomber unit. (can be selected more than once) 11. US air units can base in Canada (only if Option 5 was previously selected) 12. US transfers cruiser from the Pacific to the Atlantic 13. US sends military aid to Norway. Norway gains 1 corps next to Oslo.(Only if Norway is still Neutral) 14. US sends aid to Spain. Spain gains 1 corps next to Madrid (Only if Spain is Neutral, can be selected more than once) 15. US gains 1 tech chit in Industrial Technology or Bombers or Anti-Air. Research occurs while the US is neutral. 16. Add 25 MPP to US starting MPP force pool. (can be selected more than once) 17. US purchases Suez Canal from the UK. Suez Canal hexes become US controlled hexes. UK gains 30MPP. 18. US sends aid to Greece. 1 Greek Army relocates to Athens and entrenches. Corps in Athens is displaced to neighboring hex. 19. US sends military advisors to Turkey Turkey mobilizes 1 HQ unit. This encourages the Turkish military. Turkey has a 25% to annex Iraq and garrison it with a bonus Turkish Army unit. (this may increase the chance of an independent Turkish AI if Turkish AI/Events are available in SC2). If Axis DOW on Vichy France and Turkey controls Iraq their is a 50% that Turkey will annex Vichy Syria and garrison it with a bonus Turkish Corps unit if no Allied or Axis units enter Vichy Syria during the turn that the Axis DOW Vichy France. 20. US adds 1 tech chit to its unused tech chit pool. This chit may be used when the US enters the war. (This option may be selected more than once) 21. Garrison the Suez Canal. If the Suez is US controlled the US may transport 1 exisiting US Corps or Army Unit to the Suez Canal. Naturally if the Axis controls Gibraltor they will have to reach it via the Horn of Africa. 22. US Industry Mobilizes for War. US gains 1 Tech level in Industrial Tech. 23. US gives Suez Canal to Turkey. (Only if Action #17 choosen: US Purchased Suez canal from UK - previously and US Congress approves the transfer to Turkey.) Suez canal hexes are now turkish controlled. 24. US commisions new Battleship. (Requires approval by US Congress) 25. US Army prepares for War US Gains randomly selected HQ unit. Requires approval by Congress) 26. Turket purchases fighter planes from the US If Event #19 Occured and Turkey controls Iraq then the US finances Turkey's purchase of an Air Fleet from US Manufacturers (Requires Approval by US Congress). 27. Anti-War Protesters march in Washington. This action reduces the number of available actions and can appear more than once on the randomly generated action list. 28. Peace march held in New York City As above, this action can appear more than once on the randomly generated action list. This option reduces the number of selectable actions on the action list. The random generation of the list reflects the political realities of the time and ensures that every option is not available at each threshold level. (It also makes the game more interesting) Options such as #5, #9, #17, #22, #23, #24, #25 and #26 would require approval by Congress as indicated by a chance equal to the current war readiness level. Example: At 40% readiness the Allied player selects option #9 -US Ships can freely attack Axis ships. There is a 40% that the US Congress will approve this action. Any thoughts? [ October 22, 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I am writing this thread to collect tricks/stragems that could be incorporated into the AI for the upcoming SC2. Of course, this assumes that the new SC2 is an improved version of SC and the AI has to know when to consider using each strategem. Ideally the AI in the new SC2 will access an increasing number of strategems at higher levels of play (Novice - Beginner - Intermediate - Expert) to make each war against the AI unpredicatable. 1. Keep an Allied unit on the border of Vichy Syria. When Axis attacks Vichy France move this unit to occupy Beruit if it has not been taken by the Axis. Then station air units around Beruit to sink any transports coming within range. If the Allies have LR2 this is an effective way to guard the eastern flank of Cairo while avoiding intercepting attacking German air fleets. 2. Move the French Air Fleet to north of Manchester. After France surrenders disband the fleet so the MPPs go to the UK. 3. Move a UK corps off the coast of Bergan prepared to take the city if Norway falls to the Axis and move a ship into the port to protect it from German air attacks. If seriously damaged or threatened evacuate both units to safety or sacrifice the Corps and move only the Naval unit to safety. 4. After Italy enters the war send the Gibraltor corps to Egypt via the transit hex to help guard Cairo and move the French unit in Algiers to Gibraltor. At the same time move the French unit in Beruit to Egypt. 5. Build French Units to send to Egypt before Italy enters the war. With luck the Allied player will have 5 or 6 units in Egypt when Paris falls (1 UK corps Gibraltor, 1 UK Corps Egypt, 1 French Corps Beruit, 2 to 3 French units from France). Such a Force can seriously derail any Axis plans to conquer Iraq, especially if reinforced by UK AirPower around Beruit. 6. Clear a path of controlled hexes from Egypt to the Russian border and operate UK air units to Russia. 7. Allied AI takes Norway before the Axis if Denmark has not fallen to the Axis and Allied ship can block the straits of Denmark. 8. Axis takes Gibraltor and sends a massive Italian Fleet into the Atlantic. The fleet is continually reinforced by new Italian subs and Italy invests at least 1 chit in Gun Laying Radar or Submarine Techs. 9. Axis sneaks a corps transport past the Allies to the Western North Atlantic (Path 1 - to south atlantic then west then north past canada). At the opportune time it invades Canada. 10. Axis AI launches a same turn invasion of Vichy France and Vichy Algeria. 11. If the north german fleet has been destroyed or is sighted south of England the Allies send 4 transports and two battle ships through the Danish straits to take Finland before Germany DOW Russia. (I did this once against a Human and it allowed me to build a strong UK airbase in Finland. The HQ I sent to support them arrived with a strength of 2 after running a gauntlet of German air fleets.) 12. Allies prepare to conquer Sicily on the turn that Italy enters the war. Supported by a HQ and several UK air units and carriers a UK army unit can usually defend this one hex front leading to the Italian boot. 13. When launching invasion of France the UK reclaims all tech chits to maintain air units at maximum strength during the invasion. 14. AI stations airfleets along the English Channel to allow it to safely produce subs that it sends into the Bay of Biscay off the Western coast of France. 15. Allied AI conquers Spain prior to fall of France. [ October 21, 2003, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Occassionaly in PBEM games I will attempt to take Norway before the Axis can seize it.

If you wanted to make the partisans a real hinderance to a winning Axis player have them also appear after Russia surrenders with each Russian partisan unit increasing the chance for another partisan unit appearing by 10%. Thus the Axis could not send all of their units to the Western front after Russia surrenders. Post Surrender Russian Partisans 1 on Map = 15% per turn 2 on Map = 25% per turn 3 on Map = 35% per turn with a 50% for a 2nd partisan unit appearing that turn. 4 on Map = 45% per turn " 5 on Map = 55% per turn " 6 on Map = 65% per turn " And if their are 6 or more Post Russian Surrender Partisan units on the map then a second Siberian Transfer Event occurs with the remainder of the Russian units that were guarding the Siberian front. Naturally the Allied player can choose whether these new Free Russian (aka Free French) units appear in Northern, Central or Southern Russia. [ October 20, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I believe that Russian partisans do not appear in Russian mountain hexes, forest hexes or unoccupied cities.

I have played several PBEM games where the battles have been long and furious and then my opponent concedes after I destroyed a few key units or delayed the fall of France at great cost, when in actuality I thought I was losing, but he didn't know my of my dire straits thanks to FOW.

If generals are attached to a unit you might want to have a minimal cost (say 25MPP) to remove the general from his position. Once removed he would return to the general force pool for that nation (although the player could now see its statistics). Of course the Soviets could remove (execute) a general permanently at no cost in MPPs. If they decided to execute the under performing general he would not return to the general force pool. [ October 19, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I like that idea, especially if each admiral affected the unit it commanded in a particular way and you did not know the particular strengths or weaknesses of an admiral until its first combat. Example: A specific admiral might increase a sub's diving chance by 5%. An excellent surface warfare admiral might make a poor carrier group admiral thereby reducing a carrier group's effective experience by 1 and increasing a battleship's experience by 1. [ October 19, 2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I also find selling units and reclaiming tech chits to be a valuable option for the defender and contributes to a more interesting game when playing against a human player. For example - If the French could not scrap any units the Germans would always know the exact disposition of their opponents. Selling units allows the French to alter the makeup of forces - an armor unit, additional corps or an HQ unit - before Germany begins their invasion.

John DiFool - Excellent Idea Perhaps one could be allowed to position the German subs anywhere in a range of hexes or select one of three starting positions - Current Position, MidAtlantic, South Atlantic. Such option would also make play against the AI more interesting if the AI had a strategy for submarine warfare. [ October 19, 2003, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Iron Ranger Your colonial event gives the Axis a mighty strong reason to take Egypt. It might be even more interesting if the allies had a choice of ordering these units to Egypt or the South Atlantic. Of course, such a decision should be made a few turns before their appearance. If Egypt the reinforcments must arrive before the Suez falls to the Axis or they are lost. If the South Atlantic then reinforcements must make the run to England past any waiting Axis wolf packs and would appear a few turns later. Prime Minister: South Africa has mobilized 10,000 men to support England (1 Corps). Where should they be sent? 1. To England (Appear in the South Atlantic in 2 turn) 2. To Egypt (Arrives in 5 turns) 3. To Australia (increases chance for siberian transfer) Naturally when the event occurs the Axis receive this message: Our agents in South Africa report that the British have mobilized an army of 10,000 men. IF they have chits in intelligence they may even learn of their destination. ---------------------- [ October 16, 2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Bill, Many thanks for the insight re:Tobruk.

I like the option for Russia being handled by a third person or the AI. It would be a realistic simulation of the war and more interesting since you would not control all allied units. Imagine if the Russian player and the Allied player could engage in chat to plan simultanelous actions or decide on a plan of action - ie lets both work together to take Iraq. Of course if the Germans intercepted the communications....

If you want to hold Egypt then you should consider sending corps (not a HQ) via the Cape and air fleets to sink any transports that approach the Suez or Beruit. Occassionaly I hide a ship in the Suez Canal until a transport comes into range. Normally I find that it takes six corps to really delay the Axis advance - 4 UK corps and 2 Free French Units, along with the spotting capability of a bomber unit. The key is to place the air fleets out of range of any Axis air fleets to avoid damage from intercepting Axis attacking air fleets. [ October 12, 2003, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I was just thinking that (assuming SC2 covers Europe) the UK should have a Defend the UK AI routine that activates in the event of a German Sea Lion and the Italians should have a Defend Italy AI routine triggered by a serious allied threat to Italy. This would allow each of these powers to wage a stronger defense of their homeland. After the threat is eliminated then the country should switch back to its normal AI routine. 1. UK - Defend the English Isles AI Routine 1a. Reclaim all tech investments 1b. Produce corps to protect London 1c. Garrison London, Manchester, Edinburgh 1d. Naval units stay at extreme range prepared to attack transports. If the US enters the war it should consider sending reinforcements to England via the north of Ireland and the south of Ireland. This will ensure that at least a few US units reach England as the Axis AI will be too weak to cover both approaches. If Russia enters the war while England is fighting an English Sea Lion it should consider sending a unit or two via transports to England, if the Northern German fleet has been sunk or is located in the Atlantic and Edinburgh is controlled by the UK. 2. Italy - Defend Italy AI routine 2a. Italian HQs in the field operate to Italy 2b. Italian units can not leave Italy until the allied invaders are driven from Italy. 2c. The Italian AI reclaims tech chits and uses MPPs to to garrison Italy with corps. 2d. Italian units in cities will not attack unless the destrucion of an enemy unit is certain. Question: Why does an Italian Corps always garrison Munich towards the end of the 1939 scenario? Note: The difficulty of an Axis Sea Lion vs the AI would be greatly increased if the AI would evacuate a few French units to England before the fall of Paris. 1. Operate 2 units to Brest (1 turn) 2. Transport 2 units to Manchester (1 turn) Of course, this requires that the UK fleet does not station a ship in the Manchhester port. French Stratgies One strategy that Bill Macon mentioned is flying the French Air Fleet to North England and then disbanding it after France Surrenders so that the UK gets MPP. Now thats a great idea that an intelligent Allied AI should use. Defense of France #1 - Standard Defense of France #2 - Corps Defense Defense of France #3 - Full Defense Defense of France #4 - Evacuate to England Defense of France #5 - Send a few units to Egypt Defense of France #6 - Send French Army and Canadian Army to Coast of Tobruk and attack it after Italy enters the war. Defense of France #7 - Build a HQ [ October 15, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Many thanks, great AAR Most interesting - a battle over Turkey that lasted 6 months!

I like that idea. Say a random chance (0.5% or 1 in 200 chance) that a lowly corps finds itself gaining 4 experience levels when defending against an attack or say that an occassional army unit finds itself with 1 extra action point (for one turn only) due to an unexpected arrival of motorized transports or a submarine unit gains a 20% bonus to its dive % due to a superior naval commander. Similarly a 0.5% that a corps with no experience in combat will break and run. [ October 11, 2003, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I usually purchase 1 corps to assist in the defence of England in the first few turns. As for research I prefer to invest 2 chits in Long Range before investing in Jets. I will also locate my air units to northern england to avoid interception losses early in the war. [ October 10, 2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

One of the things I liked about clash of steel is that the Axis AI would select one of three war strategies to follow - including launching a Sea Lion invasion of the UK. SC has great PBEM and TCIP features for playing against humans. Read the strategy guide (available online) to get an overview of the game. [ October 09, 2003, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]