Fetchez la Vache

That's pretty sweet. Just wish this game had a replay option, again.

Just played the first Citadel mission as the Russians. 5 Ferdinands plinking away at my PBI while my remaining T-34s and ATG hide behind houses. Hmmm, what to do. Ha! I know. Ferdinands suffered historically from having very poor close defense. "Right lads, grab those AT grenades, we're going Big Cat hunting!"... Er, no. Despite being surround by 6-7 infantry and receiving over a dozen AT grenades, I was unable to do anything to the first Ferdinand. Replay. Same. Replay. Nadda. Replay. Diddly-squat. Replay. Broken track. Hmmm, not good, this is gonna take some time. Are AT grenades *really* that ineffective? All I want to do is blow off a track (and I aimed low as well), not trying to go through 100mm of plate. Something seems amiss. Note this was played on *realistic*. Also the Russian AT grenade has no penetration value assigned to it while the German one (I can't remember it's name) has a 150mm value quoted. It seemed to me that the German ones are also marginally more effective - that's marginally with a capital M. Is something broken? AT grenades worked fine in the demo against thinner-skinned AFVs - is it simply that Big Cats' armour is too thick? In which case why can't I blow off a track? Thoughts? Also two more slightly related points: 1) Why can't HE shells blow off tracks? 2) I love it that the Ferdinands managed to pick off some infantry using their 88mm guns. Not by explosion mind you - they simply shot the PBI directly. Impressive, yes. Realistic, no.

Shift+Number to set hotkey for a group. Number to recall.

Mac Pro 2.66 quad, 5Gb ram, X1900XT. Boot Camp has no problems at all on highest settings. Parallels doesn't like it though. My missus won't let me taint her MacBook Pro with XP so I can't comment on TOW performance on that...

I rushed the guns with my infantry first. Crawled them up, sent a couple of runners to either flank to act as decoys, then rushed the guns and killed the crew. As the guns as being enagaged I then crested my AFVs and potted the Frenchie tanks on the reverse slope. Use the PzIVC (plus all the arty fire) to take out the AT guns on the distant slope. After which, rush the defences with all tanks, mopping up and a-crushing... The remaining French reinformcement tanks were then engaged by all remaining AFVs, concentrating fire on turrets. Lost a couple of tanks, but numbers prevailed. Apart from the initial rush, I found it relatively easy tbh. I do hate the ease of disabling tank guns though. I know jamming turret rings et al was a valid tactic when desperate, but still...

Thank you. Cheered me up no end.

I kept the AT guns in their sandbag enplacements and pushed my armour up the left road and into the village where they could using flanking shots against the first wave of tanks. Then I moved them behind the hulks of the enemy tanks in order provide cover against the final wave. At the same time pushing the reinforcements further up the left flank. Took a couple of goes but it worked. The PzIVC are buggers to take out though. Immobilize and then plink away at the turrets until they bail.

Couple of new ones I think: 1) Ability for AFVs to reverse. Essential for when you suddenly find yourself under fire and need to head back down the slope with turning around first (which is highly annoying). 2) Campaign battles seem to be dominated by reinforcements. I just know that when I pick my units they are not going to be enough to do the mission and I'm going to be given a load of green troops within 3-4mins of starting. Tweak the missions please.

Managed it. \o/ Pulled everything back, field guns set up on the leff side of the map for side hits, ATs in amongst the buildings with support from the tankettes/AC/extra AT when they arrive. I did have the problem with a PzIV and 2 PzII staying at the first trench line. Pushed up my field guns carefully, sent in a spotter and plinked them off. Getting a feel for this game now. Needs some improvements though: - rotating AFV - trench/sandbag placements during battle setups - a "binocular" effect for a quick zoom in (like in the TW series) - better quick moving of the camera

Ah, good call on the "hull down" gun positions. I'll give that a try. Should have thought of that! Also nice idea about the infantry in reserve for the guns. I didn't have problems with Panzers stopping at the first trench, but then again I've always left some men there. Maybe it's something in the mission scripting? Probably worth firing up the mission editor and having a gander at some of the decision trees for that (e.g. certain number of Pol casualties required before advancing)? Not looking forward the next mission though now. Maybe I should have picked an easier side to try first?

I haven't, despite more than half-a-dozen attempts. Just curious to what a winning strat might be... I thought I was doing really well after placing all my guns in the bushes just behind the first set of trenches. Held fire until they spotted me and then took out 2 waves using concentrated AT fire and a modicum of luck. One trick by the way is to keep an eye on the status of the enemy tanks, no point plinking away at a PzI or PzII that's had it's turret knocked out! Unfortunately the third wave of tanks with the extra PzIvs just plough right over me. Another attempt saw me pulling a fair proportion back to the second line of trenches and going for the close-range-exposed-belly-shot as the Panzers come over the ridge. Took out a few but the 20mm cannons and the PzI MGs are pretty lethal at close range. No joy there. So what to do? Try to slog it out front and get mauled by PzIVs? Or pull back and get ripped apart by cannon and MG fire? I'm nicely stumped. My next plan is to try to ambush the Panzers in the town. Maybe I can actually get a kill or two out of those cute toy tankettes! Btw, being an impatient sort of bloke, I've not yet let the Germans take me out to the last man (normally some poor tanker running for his life...). So maybe I'm not meant to win and there's a last minute trick up the sleeve of the scenrio designer! No probs with the d/l (apart from my slow conn) and no probs installing or running. Good stuff, enjoying this.

Human opponents can somewhat mitigate the Tiger's disadvantage of the slow turret traverse by clever use of cover arcs. In human hands (as opposed to the AI) I personally think the Tiger platoon might have the edge on all map types.

First thing I suggest doing when installing mods for the first time is to make a back-up of the original BMP folder (if you have the HDD space that is). After that I'd personally go for CMMOS 4.03, which is an excellent third party untility that allows you to easily swap between different mods. Although initially it may seem complicated to set up I think you shouldn't have too many problems if you follow the setup guide included. Get CMMOS and the different mod packs from www.combatmission.com. Happy modding mate!

How does TacOpsMC model the use of wirecutters in modern land-warfare?

/me gives another standing ovation to all those involved with CMMOS

Since I use the Excel spreadsheet as my 'guide' when I roll, I made a very short VBA macro to roll the dice for me. </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Sub macroRolld10() Randomize d10 = Int((10 * Rnd) + 1) MsgBox (d10) End Sub</pre>

As long as you're not pining for the fjords then...

Bidermann's book is better imo. I too asked the question about the fiction/non-fiction aspect of Sajer's book a while ago but didn't get any replies unfortunately. *edit* It's so good Amazon have run out! [ January 21, 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Fetchez la Vache ]

Re: Tigers as 'critical' spearheads. I should have worded that better since I didn't mean to imply that the lack of Tigers would have meant that the Germans couldn't advanced. But I think that their presence was an important factor at the tactical level. From what I read it seems that the Tigers were used to spearhead (where-ever possible?) the panzer thrusts and the tactic seemed to have worked, if they could get through the minefields (which don't respect frontal armour thickness ). There is some question I guess about the suitability of letting the Tigers engage at close range though. It pretty much negates it's inherent advantage of firepower and thick armour when they are used at 'stand off' distances. Another aspect I remember is that the Russian infantryman had overcome, to some extent, his "panzer fear". Often the panzers would push through a Russian defensive line, only for the following German grenadiers to be engaged by the Russians popping out of their foxholes/trenches. Before this the Russian infantry used to pull back to keep away from the dreaded panzers (gross generalization, but what the heck...). All in all I find the 'Kursk' series of operations to be a very interesting part of the Ost history. So many factors.

/me comes back after being AWOL for far too long (damn real life) Interesting thread guys, good contributions by everyone. Although Bastables made the best by far: Russian Oral counter attack. I'm trying very hard not to conjure up mental images of that. Although I'm not a grog by any means, I've always been interested in Kursk ever since I had to write a history essay on it when I was 13-14. Some thoughts that arose in my mind whilst reading this thread: 1) I always thought Hoth was more operationally in control of the German southern advance rather than Manstein. I mentally think of Model/Hoth being the two main German commanders, not Model/Manstein. 2) I thought that although Model did use more infantry 'upfront', this was at least initially partly due to him trying to negate the effect on the Russian minefields by trying to get engineers to lift as many as possible before throwing in the panzers. Tigers were critically important for spearheading the panzer thrusts. I seem to remember that Model had less than Hoth (and maybe didn't use them as effectively?). The northern pincer still managed to initially penetrate the Russian MLR but got caught up trying to clear a major east-west ridgeline. After 3 days of very heavy mixed tank/infantry fighting the Germans still hadn't made the high ground and were effectively too weakened to advance further and lost the offensive momentum. Again this is just my impression. Currently at work atm (late lunch before you ask ), so don't have any books at hand to give more details (curse my non-photographic memory). 3) Ultimately though I personally don't see how the Germans could have ever succeeded operationally without the Northern Group significantly penetrating the Russian defences. Even if IISS had made Obojan (sp?) that would have only meant they'd penetrated about 1/4 into the Kursk salient? Couple this with the fact that the Russians had already identified the Orel salient as a target for a counter-offensive. What would have been the German options if they'd continued the southern advance only to have a major Russian offensive breaking through to Orel? So instead of Kursk being the target they'd have to aim for Orel instead. Ouch. 4) The 'what if' scenario worth thinking about imo is what would have happened if the Germans had attacked in May as first envisaged. Anyway, good thread. Proof of why this is such an active and interesting forum.

I read this lot and I can't help thinking of an analogy... MrG as a KV-1 surrounded by forum members armed with Pak36's.

Re: "fuzzy logic" and how to model infantry reactions under fire. My suggestion is to allow the player to give a secondary 'evasive' move order to a unit which is only performed when they come under fire and the TacAI decides to take 'evasive manoeuvres'. The chance of the unit actually performing the evasive movement is dependent on current morale, fitness, HQ bonuses, etc. So that SMG squad moving across the open ground could be given a evasive movement order to head back to the clump of trees it came from. Or hit the dirt. Or assault the treeline up ahead. This way you could micro-manage the actions of the units when they come under fire - to some extent. If they are tired and green then they might hit the dirt no matter what you tell them to do! (/me ignores the train of thought that says green troops might be more inclined to charge... ) Only a thought. Never hurts. Btw, when I mentioned Sudden Strike before it was because my clan mate did used to play it. I wasn't trying to suggest that all SS players are dim . Not at all. It's one of the best RTS multiplayer games out there imo. But players first 'exposed' to SS are somewhat surprised to learn the Stürmtiger had a reload time of 5mins! Or was it 10? I forget. Whatever.

I think this is a very succinct point and valid to the "debate". I've been 'coaching' a friend of mine in CMBB since his previous WW2 strategy experience began and ended at Sudden Strike. He initially hated CMBB because, quite frankly, he had no idea how to use his men or machinery properly. He's getting the hang of it now and I hope he'll be playing it for a long time to come once the 'CM Bug' takes hold. What I'm trying to point out, and as I think Murpes was alluding to, is that maybe there's a point where too much 'grognardness' is a bad thing, at least for people new to the genre? As a suggestion I think it might be a good idea for there to be a 'realism' toggle for the next CM engine. In the same way a flight sim such as IL-2 has different realism toggles, maybe it might be an idea to try to impliment the same into CM? This way die-hard grogs are happy, but the game is still accessible to Joe-public who may not have the historical knowledge (or training manuals) to initially play the game properly. For example infantry suffer less morale problems when under fire? Another thing is that we are blessed with hundreds of AFV's now. However not everyone has a detailed knowledge of WW2 weaponary. A simple guide of basic weapons and their recommended (or historical) use might be nice as well for newcomers to WW2 gaming? My current limited impression is that there is a danger that as BTS get closer to the grail of a perfect simulation, there is a danger that the 'playability' is seen to lessen. Resulting in fewer players and fewer games bought. Personally I'd still play CM even if it required me to wear full battle-dress while playing and kicked me in the groin whenever I lost a man, but I hate to think all those other Sudden Strike players may be missing out...

Public forum = Posts made by the public Forum Administrators = Administer the public forum Public members <> Forum Administrators This post = Waste of time Sorry mate, but that's the way it is. Oh and .

Perfect for the East Front, good effort! Please send me a set mate, e-addy in the profile. Thank you.