Holien

Bump on this thread, I have not read JonS notes as I want to play the scenario double blind, anyone play it and recommend sides for stronger player? I.e. is it weighted or fairly balanced?

Seriously back to drawing board for this as German player. I think the key is to realise that as a German you are in fact handling the equivalent of a Sherman vs a Tiger. The scenario is OK vs AI but against a decent human the Germans are toast unless they take a seriously defensive stance and try and play hide an seek with the Soviets at less than 1km range. But one hit on the Panthers turret and you are gone, considering the amount of Soviet infantry and sheer number of tanks I would be tempted to keep this as a game vs the AI to learn about the heavy tanks. The 1st Platoon German infantry are all out of command as they do not even have a leader. That is a bit poor and should really be corrected for a demo game? If you want to fend off the soviet horde try and find some open ground, but the you will get pummelled by the HE of the massed soviet tanks. So sit back and hide... The German tank crews are of a low rating and the soviets have more tanks and better ratings. A real tough game for the Germans if they think they can even try to take the objectives they will have to bide time and soak up the soviet attack first, trying to find good defensive positions.

Third mission was pretty easy and I don't know if it can be fixed but most of the time the AI had rear of tanks facing mine and they were stopped. It just seemed odd that the Soviet tanks were not driving pell mell for their exits. Rather destroyed the feel of that scenario for me. The use of lots of trucks for Germans to be used a aircraft bait worked well and gave a sense of loss to air power, but overall that scenario was no where as good as the 1st two. I am now on my 4th one and with the reduced number of infantry I have, I am not sure how it will play out. I think I should have slightly easier time as I did manage to remove most of the T34's in the 2nd scenario...

Just replaying this and I think I have got it wrong with long range duels the Panthers are getting toasted. Trying to find thread which had a link to what will penetrate what at various ranges. At 1km plus the Panther can hit more frequent but does little damage to JS2 and at the same range all the JS2 has to do is land a hit and it has strength to wreck the Panther by killing crew / forcing bails etc... I seem to have got the theory wrong on this scenario and as a German player it is a very tough nut. Not finished playing but will update as game goes along.... I did have a quick try vs AI and managed to win as Germans, but that is more down to AI doing silly things with Russian tanks which most humans would avoid... Back to drawing board with theory on how to win this vs a human as the German player... Hmmm

Hi @ MARS42, Saw this thread as I was playing and avoided reading it until I finished second scenario. Disagree with your post and I think the scenario is very good. 1. I defeated all T34's even at long range and lost 4 tanks taking out 14 T34's. 2. Never believe what you see in a briefing, it is war. The first scenario was fun to find 3 T34's my side of the river!! Great small action resulted as I sent in infantry to clear them!! 3. I too thought the Baker group would have tanks... No biggie when they did not, gave them tanks from my main group. See point 2... BTW 1 T34 did not hold off that tank, work the two groups together!! 4. Scenario explained Soviets were pulling back, so NP with them moving tanks, use of triggers helped with that, pity about giving me their rear, but hey I am not complaining. 5. Time limit was fine for me, the AI gave up with 20m mins left of game to play, and I did not know map, just played it blank from fresh... 6. Agree with quantity of troops being off putting, scenario designers did good job of adding chunks at a time so you can start and slowly build up. I must say it does take longer to do turns at teh start but once action develops it breaks down into bite sized actions. So while I was initially put off by map size (PC struggles a bit) I am coming around to it and certainly enjoyed it as much as some of Paper Tiger's epics... If you have not played any of Paper Tigers campaigns, perhaps have a crack at those... (BTW they are hard.... ) So IMO second scenario very good and thank you for some great game play... One memorable scene is 1/2 track with German infantry dismounting in wrong place and hidden soviets opening up... I have never seen so much lead fly!!!! A wow moment... Not too good for my pixel truppen...

******************* Spoilers ************ Just finished the game as Russians vs Germans and did manage a victory but my oppo managed to lose all his infantry and in the end I walked to the touch zones and right in the last few minutes I managed to flank his forces and was on verge of taking his last two Panthers. German player must really defeat the Soviets at range and even then can suffer if the Soviets manage to mass multiple tanks vs one Panther - which I was able to do. The JS2 is a beast of a tank and despite numerous hits I was often able to re man tanks with 3 crew men and keep them moving. Good scenario, not sure how the Germans will take rear VP locations unless they can really defeat enough Soviet tanks to force a flank. Side shots on Panthers are lethal. As mentioned above I think the Germans need to aim for Victory by keeping the soviets away from the first two touch zones with a long range defence plan.

This game just gets better and better.. Nice screen shots.

**** SPOILERS **** OK so it all depends on what each side does so yes if Soviets can get close enough then Germans will suffer. But.... If Germans play to their strengths and do not have to get close to win then that favours the Germans IMO... So look at VP locations. Germans can bag the two mid ground touch objectives fairly easy without any losses if they do it right. This then forces Soviets to launch an attack and if you position the Germans well you can fend those off at distance. If the Germans lose less than 60% losses they get 100pts. While the Russian have to inflict over 50% on the Germans to get 100pts and they have to keep losses less than 25% to get the other 100pts... So weighted to make Russians attack and unless you can breach the line and get in close the Soviets do not have accuracy for long range gun duels. So yes while Soviets out number Germans nearly 3 to 1 that only counts if you can get range down to less than 1KM or shorter. Just my 2p and as with all scenarios it really does depend on what each side does. Not played vs AI but AI is I guess not coded to maximise the German advantage.

Just getting into closing stages of my HTH with this, looks like Germans have slightly easier time of it depending on what they do. So give Germans to less experienced player IMO as it could be very one sided if you are not careful.

FYI a Tank heavy scenario which is a tough challenge and has pretty large map...

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=finishdown&id=3190 In the Downloads section. I too had problems opening it so soemthing locked down to beta, but this above worked fine

Just played and completed the 1st Scenario in Blunting the Spear. Like the Original OP I thought the map and number of forces was a tad big even for an experienced CM player. HOWEVER.... After I got over that I was blown away by the whole experience!!! What a wonderful map and the scale really gives the player a whole new arena of feelings and problems. I managed to lose only 2 MKIV's and a Halftrack but my o my the Russian SMG is bloody lethal. I need to refine my tactics and learn to keep my German PBI alive. So my Hat's off to the map maker and the scenario designers and I am now looking forward to the next game. While this is not perhaps the best for a newbie to play with (qty of units), it certainly is the map to show off what the new theatre has to offer... Thank you to all those involved, this is a strong rival to the work of the campaigns undertaken by Paper Tiger and gives me the same wow factor.

Thanks for the quick response. So I will rephrase my question re Panthers... At what range would you engage a Panther Front on with an 85mm? My hits so far have ping'd but lets see if I get lucky... Ages since I have played Russian front and never an area where I had previous knowledge so I am re-learning what kills what at what range...

Sorry to ask a tangent question, but seems like as good a place as any... Question to the Grogs... Two urgent questions (well for my Pixel Truppen) Panther Armour Front on - What range does it become more than likely for 85mm gun to go through it? What range can MKIV kill a T34/85 at front on. My google fuu has failed and I stumbled on those who would know... Thxs in advance....

Well this thread answered one question... Now I prey that Mother Russia hears me...

Sorry can not answer the 1st question, but the way I play it is to try and use Arty when I really have to. PT does explain in some missions if you need to conserve. So if it is not mentioned you should be fine to use it all. Read his briefings carefully. Not gamey for your second question. Again it is key to understand and the designer is giving you hints. As for if to re-start. I can again not say for certain as I did not lose too many men. I guess if you lost 80% then re-start? It really depends on how *issed you would be if you could not complete? I guess if in doubt better to re-start sooner... But it really depends on how miffed you would be?

Hi Erwin, Just seen this and it is something that I have asked for is the ability to toggle the main campaign briefing from the campaign scenario screen's. Just would be really useful to remind where you are in the campaign arc. I found it really useful when some one posted the full scenario list and I could then check my progress on there. So a minor niggle but might be an easy fix on the system?

Only hit by the plane from my memory?

I see what you mean you referring to original move to location, if he had pressed home then, yes may have been different. Stopping and getting whacked by the plane and giving Bil time to respond and counter was another mistake. Lets hope the Panther hits home 1st...

IMO he is a worse position than standing back and launching an attack has put him into a bad position. Not that he knew what he was driving into... Again not working your forces as a whole costs you... If he had infantry support with eyes on he might have had a better chance... Ohh well live and learn...

And so it happens.... I bet Elvis is a tad surprised!!

Woot... Great action..

What a little gem of a scenario. Not really a great challenge for me, but I left it to last few minutes to exit forces off the Cross Country Route. The scenario reminded me of my 1st Table Top (Well Actually Floor) scenario with my old Airfix figures. Some fond memories triggered of getting my 1st WW2 gaming as a youngster... Nice map, good little challenge and one perhaps for new players to do as a stand alone. Some questions... What would happen if I exited forces off both exit zones? I presume I am now on a different route of scenarios so will have to come back to this point to try the main road approach? The next scenario map looks great and I am really looking forward to playing that one...

Thxs Elvis... A good summary and really helps people see what options you have...

Thxs Steve... Note to self... Russians need heads out of tank... Germans can stay buttoned... Lets see what happens..