Holien

Hi Jon, Some final notes from my oppo... "I actually enjoyed the scenario but from my perspective, I had hit a wall of steel and seemed to be going nowhere fast – hence the CF. If I had had a notion that you were trying to exit, I would have carried on because I would have known that I was tying your stuff down. From the German players perspective, you have to have some idea of what progress, or otherwise, that you are making and, as far as I could see I was making none. At that point IMO a prudent commander would call off an attack that seemed to be going nowhere. The British player, on the other hand, can judge exactly how he is doing, based on the exits, losses and kills.... .... A small addition to the German briefing could, I think, make all the difference. Something like ‘from what little you can see, it appears that the British are trying to extricate themselves from this area. You need to catch them before they can achieve this’" I think he sums it well as to why a slight tweak will give the German player a better idea without perhaps giving too much away?

Hi Colonel, Thanks for the suggestions, always good to know some more to play. We are going to try MG Counter Atack at Son, based upon feedback at the Blitz site... http://www.theblitz.org/scenarios/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/mg-counterattack-at-son/b-15.htm?action=scenario&id=3715 Also another one that looks like it might be good is MG Green Hell http://www.theblitz.org/scenarios/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/mg-green-hell/b-15.htm?action=scenario&id=3711 This would seem to favour Yanks but has good comments re map. Re Last Defence I played that and lost as Germans, I raised concerns re the Bocage Line which like you I struggled with ID it as bocage and not hedge, I have since learnt. The map design is good apart from the long line of bocage that you can not get through, this messed me up as did my failure to use Arty effectively... So I would warn players taking the Germans to think hard about apporach and use of arty... I will consider Les Charne and I have downloaded Bloody St Omer from Fred but just having a quick look at the map not sure I have ever played it, maybe one to try out in future, would be good to know how you think about it after you have played it through...

No need to blast, sexton tracks slow move will destroy walls!

I did suggest but my oppo said "Replaying it can’t work as it would be too easy to target accurately with the mortars and knowing the disarray of the Brits, a quick start would get better results. Also the Brits could even better determine where the German attack would come. This one favours a blind play, for unpredictability but needs some serious rebalancing IMO." Which actually I agree with everything bar rebalance. As Germans knowing what I know I would just set up a slow stonk on the choke points and the Brits would not be able to exit easily. Of course as a Gentleman I could forgo that and try and use in a different manner.

No worries you are just on winning end of my New Years resolution... BTW I think you hid well the conditions for the Germans, as if you make it too obvious that Brits are leaving they could plot Arty to hit road junctions / choke points and that would be game over for Brits. Not sure how you could explain that Germans are doing well even if they are not killing things, I don't think there is a way around that.... Map as ever very good and some good LOS opportunities that I used to really slow German advance down...

A bit of a tip re exiting... I would not use the lane. In the game I did use it just for all my trucks and that kept them out of the way and moving forwards. Mind you if one had blown via the HE I would have been done for. The quickest way to exit is to use the sextons to break down walls and use fast move through the fields. This worked out far quicker and once you got lines formed worked fairly smoothly.

Yep agree and it all depends on what each person does. Just wanted to give Jon some feed back and kick off a bit of discussion. My New Years resolution to try and comment on scenarios played so Designers get an insight and know that there scenarios are being played.

Well I think he was too cautious and he split his force into three attacks. One major attack on the right flank was backed up by 5 Panthers and then a smaller attack near woods (2 Panthers) and then a smaller attack up road on left with 3 Panthers (but one became bogged in dry stream, so in effect only two Panthers). His attacks did not progress fast and I had time to get all my TD's on board and then I started attacking him in flanks which he failed to secure with any Observation. So he lost a Panther on the left road attack which wasthe one place I did not want him to break through. I managed to hit the Middle wood attack Panther in side but he drove it away and hence gave that up... The Right wing I got a lucky hit with a Sherman on gun of Panther so that knocked out one and I had a long range TD hit on another from the Road way as you get some long range LOS from that position, he put it down to a Piat so he had not clocked I could hit him from other side of map. When he did pick up speed he lost two Panthers in one turn and that broke him. He had advanced the Panthers at speed without support past my MLR and into my second positions. I nailed one with a Piat team (only team in that line) so he was unlucky to drive past me side on. I had also placed two Shermans on far left (my left, his right) behind hedge and in such a position that if he drove staright forward I would get side shot. He did and at close range he was done for. I just don't think he was aggressive enough early on and using his inf in a co-ordinated manner. His view interestingly was "And you still have over 170 infantry left. So, with casualties, as many as the total German infantry force, with something like 20 Piat teams." But what that statement does not understand is that the Brits are spread thin and the Germans have at the points they attack the advantage unless the Brits can re-act to those points. So up on his right flank I had around 20 men in small clumps shooting and scooting to try and delay him. I guess they appeared as if I had more... I guess the other key trick was that I kept 1 Sexton back in each section to throw HE at him and that really mucked up his attack, especially as I had LOS side on to his right flank attack, that slowed him down and broke his attack up giving me more time. BTW when we CF'd it was a draw. 709pts Brits to German 665. So he was doing well as 23 mins left on clock and I was still trying to get my stuff off map. I had in effect got 209 points for nailing 5 Panthers and 76 of his men. (His last Panther was nailed on his left flank as I had sent TD's to drive below him and disrupt any move up the road as if he had got to top he would see all my fleeing Trucks... So I think he as Germans seeing he had lost 5 Panthers and having 1 bogged and 1 without a gun threw towel in as he thought he could not achieve his objectives (most probably right if it had run another 23 mins...)

He is the reason why I play CMBN. I met him at Historicon in the US and he was a gent and good fun. One of my all time great designers... RIP John...

**** SPOLIERS **** So just called end to this scenario as my Oppo really thought it was too imbalanced for the Germans to win against a competent British player... “For the Germans to win they would have to be massively lucky and the Brits to be massively inept.” My Oppo... IMO I think it is fairly well balanced based upon VP scoring and some clever scenario VP design. The Brits have to exit forces or the Germans gain them as destroyed even if they were not by the Germans. This I think can lead to the German player thinking they are doing badly when they are not. Also if the Germans do attack in right spot and hit the choke point then the Brits are stuffed as only a couple of places they can get there forces out, which I guess is why Jon balanced it by allowing Brits 500 points for less than 25% losses. But if the Brits go crazy they lose that 500points and that is 50% of their VPs lost!! How did anyone else get on with it?

Hi Jon, Hope the NZ summer is going well and I will buy you a beer or two the next time I get over there, which might be next year if her in doors has her way... Anyway just CF'd Ubique as my Oppo thought it favoured the Allies by too much and he just lost 2 xxxx's I on the other hand think it was fine and a bloody tough challenge for the Brits. Despite his concerns when we CF'd it was a draw although I would have likely xxxxx my forces xxx the xxx and hence it would have moved to a victory for the Brits. Very clever design and how you keep key bits of info from Germans was good. This did however lead german player to despair as he was not killing anything but little did he know that he was... I would recommend it for HtH play and that the German player must keep going as all is not what it seems... I will start another thread with spoilers for Ubique to allow Jim to give more feed back from his POV.

To bump the thread and finally report on the game, this is one of the best scenarios I have played. A real tough affair with a great map (bar crappy rail bridge!!). I think plenty for both side and can not recommend it highly enough!!

Just started playing this. Only take the Brits if you like plotting movement paths!!

Up to Steve, but if it was me I would spend £100 and some time to investigate a bit further. The tech base has changed and as part of the R&D of any business it is worth getting solid facts, even if it costs a few bucks... I have found some of the posts in this thread to be less than impressive. IMO the community needs new blood and if we can be civil without shouting people down then good things might come out of it.

Good hunting Bill, not sure you can even do that, but hats off to you for giving it a go. Let's hope turns pick up a tad....

15 years? I am happy to pay a premium to keep it that way.

GAJ Thanks for the work you have done on this. CMH once I found it works a treat and really nice to see all games on one tab.

Good idea, not sure if the players could easily do that?

And this is why you are a Master in scenario design, you have great maps and a good feel for balance. Teacher this is not a swipe at you, although could be seen as one. Your map is great and the scenario premise is very good. Just a tweak on force composition can take it to an all time classic. It is good that the scenario is getting a good play test with plenty of feedback, which scenarios often do not get. Also I have seen you comment on how your design has been merged by other considerations. So please don't take these comments as a swipe as I am ever grateful to those who produce the scenario's.

Totally get where you are coming from. Hopefully scenario will be rebalanced before release and play through's like this are essential. The catch with this one is you have the whole world (CMers) watching. Your AAR is excellent and even if you end game soon it has given a great insight to the game. Hope you will fight on for a bit to allow us to see some action in the buildings? Maybe if you force the Americans to fight urban you can squeeze a draw?

Very surprised at test results and I think this scenario is pretty heavily weighted for the Soviets, a decent Soviet Player should win this bar any massive streak of bad luck. The MKIV can not reliably kill the T34 at range and all it takes is one hit from the T34 and the MKIV is toast even at range. Also just checked crew skill levels and while there are some green crews the Soviets do have crews with +2 ability which the Germans do not have. These crews have a definite edge. 8 vs 15 is too much of an ask IMO. So all in all maybe good vs AI and give the German player a good challenge. IMO H2H is not that enjoyable as you have limited options for the Germans. The Halftracks have to Pell Mell to the Woods by the lake and then they are pretty much wasted as they can not venture into the open... If you do try and duel the Soviets at range you will lose and you have to move to cover the advance and the Soviets have more options on leaving tanks to cover while moving smaller force to gain objectives... If the Soviet player takes his time and ensures that he spots the German Tanks he will prevail, IMO. Interesting situation to game, just bloody glad you are not German Commander IRL having to try and do this.

What I find interesting is that people are focused on the vehicles and not the victory locations and points for those? I guess once I get the game I will see if really it is all about the vehicles? Surely if Bil can get his infantry into the buildings with minimal losses he stands a chance to win the scenario depending on the time PnzLdr then has left to dig him out? That is the next phase that will interest me in how modern tech deals with city fights?

The novel approach could be his millstone? While I can understand you delaying your AAR to allow some time for catch up, it should not be unlimited time? Hope we get a post soon.

The narrative style does seem to be a drag on getting AAR posted? Hoping we can get some more soon?

How many minutes for the scenario? Just looked at start and can not see it mentioned. It is all about 700pts and not about what is destroyed? (If I have read scenario correctly?)