Holien

Ok So just loaded it up and both bunkers are empty, so I better read the briefing as I had skimmed it... Not really a story man but I have to ask why would you go to the effort of constructing bunkers to leave them empty... They provide better protection vs Arty and you tell your men to hide in trenches... All I am going to do is re-occupy and yes they will die, but the whole infantry force in this scenario dies.... You see that is where I am at slight odds with this scenario design is that it is all about the tanks and the infantry are mere 2nd bit actors... I get it for the basis of the campaign and I guess for this play through I am pretty much going to leave the infantry as is as to see how (if I can win) with minimal management of the infantry.

Sorry was out yesterday and wanted to add more comment's, your changes sound good and glad you picked up on empty bunker. TRPs I think are also needed. Any force that has time for bunkers and trenches has time to register TRPs IMO.

Finished my 1st test of the 1st scenario and I got a Draw and was kicked from campaign... I Lost Claus Tank but he was fine, kept Village and I was down to 2 Tigers (made numerous mistakes as I have not played too much RT and learning how Tigers work with T85 at close range... (Badly...) I forced my way to finish the game and was pretty miffed with the whole thing. I see what you are trying to do but it felt like you are trying a tad too hard. I often see wargamers who do similar set ups on tables and they never get to finish the game, Less is More IMO. Some things I would suggest you change from my POV which of course might vary from others. (I guess some people will enjoy it...) The feeling I got from the game was that the infantry were mere speed bumps and I became really disengaged from the whole game and just wanted it to end. It just felt like a turkey shoot... I did learn more about Tigers and T85's and even at close range with 1st hits on T85's they could still hit back and wipe my Tigers out with one shot. If I played it again I now know where to position my force and how to play the AI but I am reluctant to put more time into this as it just did not do it for me. I do like challenges but I want to feel engaged and you want to craft the story with one big nasty batle at the end, not sledge the player to death at the start... I will ponder it some more and see if I can add any other thoughts....

Will do, I am doing my best this year to show the scenario designers some love and attention as without guys like you I don't get to feed my addiction! So will keep you updated. BTW no problem re the Tiger loss, just made it more fun for me!!!

Nope... 1st minute Tiger takes a rocket in the top armour, HQ vehicle all crew lost!!! That is poor timing! Managed a few turns last night, got to hate that arty... (Looks good so far...)

I was about to start this, will pick up new file. Looking forward to it.

There is an argument that if Europe plays the long game any Russian threat will disappear when the current Russian economic policies come home to roost. So just because there is a perceived gap at the moment does not mean Europe has to play the Arms race /spend game others are playing.

Informed people questioned the validity of massive defence spending when governments were not (and are still not) balancing their budgets. If you fail to do that situations like Greece occur. Of course the media is now softening the masses that more is needed to be spent on the military. But what cuts to other vital services have to be made?

As an observer to this and some of the other threads that have been locked this has provided useful information on why and how the pocket was lost. Really useful. Thanks.

******** Spoilers within ******* Well we have finally finished this and Oppo requested CF at around 56 Min left mark so we have played well over 1 hour of the game. I enjopyed the challenge and ultimately I do not think the Bridge Issue affected the game for me, and actually I do not think it really affects it for the Germans. I really liked how ASL Vet created the opposing VP conditions and the Germans have different condditions than the Americans. So I think even with the bridge not allowing tanks across it does make for interesting game for both sides. Depending on how the Americans place their AT Guns and the speed of the German advance it could be better for the Germans that the Allies can not cross the river... So some key observations... 1. The times noted for the Allied reinforcements are wrong by an hour. I do not know if that was deliberate or a mix up between 8 and 9? No real problem as often as a commander you do not know really when or if stuff will turn up. I was certainly watching the clock and preying for a slow German adavnce as I got my 1st lot of tanks before he had managed to escape my kill zone... 2. There are several clear bottlenecks for the Germans and the Allied player has to really use those to slow down the advance. 3. I was surprised and caught off guard and that really made the experience more fun. Because the map is so big as the Allied player you do not really know how close the Germans are to your setup. As I don't ever take designers at their word or breifing I assume the worse and scout out... So what I did at beggining is load up a couple of jeeps and head for the two bridges that the Germans can use (1 road and 1 foot bridge).. I reached the road Bridge and no Germans were there so pushed them on across the fields to observe quietly the main road. They gave me fantastic info on what was heading my way. 14 S***dig Pathers!! That scared the hell out of me as I had 4 AT Guns and some Zookas so I knew I was in for tough time. The Other Jeep took far edge apporach to foot bridge and a Zook recon team crossed the foot bridge. No Germans to be seen apart from vehicle contacts heading down road, so they crossed the bridge to see if they could take a tank out... So on the basius of that info I made wrong assumption that all German forces where using main bridge and moved up my units to a more forward defence line (German Farm House and other buildings). I was somewhat taken aback when my forces bumped into advance German Inf which had magically got across the river. This resulted in some of the best action of the game with fire fights in the mist. But I had been able to take key buildings and Bocage hedge line. If I had not taken this with 3 platoons (I jeeped one platoon in) I would have been steam rolled. These forward positions are essential to the Allied player and the large map and uncertain start positions created some great game play. This game play continued as my Oppo had not spotted me slipping the Zook team past and they managed to cause a bit of trouble before being taken out. Once I looked at German set up my Zook team were very lucky / unlucky to have arrived at the foot bridge after the mass of Germans had already crossed and took a different route X Country so we both missed seeing one another. Those sort of thinmgs rarely happen in CM and really added to the FOG of war and enjoyment of the scenario. Will post some more comments later as need to log off for she who must be obeyed....

Update on Last Bridge at Son.. We have finished the game and my Oppo CF'd around the 56 min mark (left in game). I think this is a game worth playing as H2H and I quite enjoyed the challenge as Allied player. Some reservations... 1. The version in the base game has a bridge that Armour can not use, this does affect game play but not as much as I origionally thought (after seeing each sides VP requirements). So either get the version that has been updated with a tank capable brideg or be prepared for German tanks to stay on one side and Allied on the other. This depending on how the Allied player uses his tanks might swing it to the Germans advanatge. 2. There is a key bridge that the Germans can use but we hit the Bridge Bug and the German player lost two vehicles stuck in the bridge. This p***ed of my oppo and took a lot of the shine off the game. Either wait for Bridge bug to be fixed or just be careful and accept the game limitations. 3. The Game is 2 Hrs plus and the map is massive. I won't give any more away but there are limitations with this and some advantages. I will expound on a thread with spoilers... So I really enjoyed the challenge and I think for two players who know one another it is worth exploring. Right once my Oppo rests I will see if I can get him to play MG Green Hell... (that or when I get Fibre in 2 weeks I will be off to play CMBS and that looks like fun....)

Hi for CMBS they have broken files to smaller size, maybe raise a ticket and ask if they can do that for you? I agree large file sizes and no resume is a killer if you have 10gb limit per month.

Just looking to see if trees offer cover from planes and I seem to agree with Vanir as in the last scenario of the German campaign I hid my vehicles in trees and have stuff out in the open. Numerous times the trees have offered no protection. Vehicles under the trees were targeted instead of those out in the open. I was a tad surprised hence my search to see if it is a feature of the game that could be tweaked. BTW one of the staff runs was Soviet on Soviet when I still had plenty out in the open.

Great news on the segmented downloads I used to have a 10gb cap! I have since switched ISP to an unlimited cap, but still don't get great d/l speeds. So this news from Steve is very welcome. Another example of them accepting they have an issue that they can help their customers with. I think now I have seen that I can go ahead and buy the game.

Yep, I had same problem, I have posted about gaps or fake gaps before. A pity as otherwise that scenario would be a cracker.

Suggest we play a few more turns to see if it dislodges, looks like the Panther needed a drink... Not a pretty sight watching the 1st Panther cross which did a similar dipping motion, will see if I can post screenie from my POV later today..

Hi Myles, The way the business model works for CM and the other games (from what I understand, and happy to be corrected) is that any scenario's provided with the base game are pretty much designed by volunteers and playtested as best as possible before release. The play testing of a scenario is not ensured and is not part of the release process, so you don't necessarily get it fully played before the game or module is released. So I guess this just got missed or the players did not get to stage to push vehicles across the bridge. ASL Vet I think your ideas are good and I guess BFC have other things they want to focus on and it is a pity they have not responded. I had not thought through the patch process but I guess they now do the patch with everything in it so it would be possible to get scenarios updated and released with a patch. Another great idea. However, again I guess too much trouble for BFC so not going to happen. I am not really aufait with the editor but if someone did modify it and posted to the repository and placed a link in this thread then it might be good for some users, I guess maybe not all as you tend to only search things out when you spot an issue and by then it is too late. I will post a review of the scenario as is once we have reached a point where it has ended. It could still play well and be fun, just certain tactics I had planned I can not put into effect, but likewise the German player is also affected. As I said above it really is giving me a great challenge and I am hoping I can keep my defense up as more xx's get across the river bridge. (Not Canal Bridge). ASL Vet I am really enjoying the design so far and thank you for the work it took you to create it, more comments to follow when we finish.

To be fair I failed to understand what was being said by the Reveiwer, but would be good to have an updated version in the repositary and a linky poo on this thread?

OK we are going to play on and see how it works out. It really puts the Kybosh on what I had planned and I am not sure what the German VP's are and how important it is for them to cross as we are playing double blind. My oppo is OK to continue so lets see what happens. Real pity that Bridges are such a PITA in the CM series, I do understand how hard it is to code but graphically watching the Panthers go over the bridges they can cross is not what I would call very smooth, with some very odd graphic moments. I wish I had understood what I had seen written about this game before we started so I could have made an edit. I had not really understood what the person was saying... Dohh!!

About 21 game minutes into game and we have hit serious issue with the bridge over the canal. It can not be crossed by armour. This really affects the scenario so if you do play HtH be aware. Might be best to give it a miss. Shame as it was shaping up to be an epic scenario. This relates to MG counter attack at Son

Joy, just invested god knows how many hours on this scenario and we are 21 mins in and just talking to my oppo he said he could not plot move for Panther on the bridge. Hmmm I thought the Jeeps I have are OK. Now I see this is broken! It was shaping up to be a great game but this seems to place it in the bin! What a waste. I guess I can not edit game in progress to fix the bridge? Shocking and a real shame. I will let my oppo know and see if he feels he can win without getting his tanks across. Also seriously knackers my cunning plans!! Can't believe the play testers did not try and get tanks across the bridge!!

Nahh you will be fine, it is always good to have first hand accounts from some one unbiased and knows what is really going on. We can after all trust you. The WWW has made the whole world smaller and the fact we can trade banter on such things must be good?

Quack! Quack! Quack! Did I see a Duck?

Bil, Thanks a Great Tip!! Outside one of the buildings a team hunts outside, while suddenly they spot an enemy team within, it is over in seconds. That is one enemy team down.. another was spotted moving through the central buildings.. and will be the focus of my efforts next turn. Note: I often skirt the outside of a building, or will sit a team next to it for a turn or two before entering. This allows them to listen and watch for enemy movement while having a wall between them and anything inside.

I would watch this, very good series IMO and it gives a different POV of which I found useful to stimulate thinking on what would you do if you lived in a society that headed the way Germany headed. We are all humans and act pretty much along same lines, it is just a question of luck (birth) in which society you end up that then forms your frames of reference... Definately worth a watch.