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In CM:A it definitely makes a difference, it's the key to one of the stock scenarios.....Consequently I usually try to do so in both CM:SF & CM:BS.

In CM:SF if you are fighting Blue at night, you are dead, so it doesn't make any noticeable difference, if you are fighting Red, they are usually UnCons so whether it makes a difference is probably more dependent on their equipment quality (ie: do they have RPG-29/AT-14). 

I haven't played enough CM:BS to form an opinion yet, but I would expect it to still be a factor (all the BMPs still have a commander's station for the squad leader IIRC) in recent games I've been irritated to find that the squad RPG joins the recon team, which seriously reduces the firepower of the remaining team once he's sat in the track. 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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1 minute ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

In CM:A it definitely makes a difference, it's the key to one of the stock scenarios.....Consequently I usually try to do so in both CM:SF & CM:BS, in CM:SF if you are fighting Blue at night, you are dead, so it doesn't make any noticeable difference, if you are fighting Red, they are usually UnCons so whether it makes a difference is probably more dependent on their equipment quality (ie: do they have RPG-29/AT-14).  I haven't played enough CM:BS to form an opinion yet, but I would expect it to still be a factor (all the BMPs still have a commander's station for the squad leader IIRC) in recent games I've been irritated to find that the squad RPG joins the recon team, which seriously reduces the firepower of the remaining team once he's sat in the track. 

Thank you for that info - I will try it out in the game. 

955_tass_10916385 (1).jpg

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I missed a key phrase out in my post above, should have been:

"In CM:A it definitely makes a difference, especially at night, it's the key to one of the stock scenarios.....Consequently I usually try to do so in both CM:SF & CM:BS.

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I launched a counterattack on my Power Hour scenario with a small 5 vehicle Bronnegruppa against the Americans stalled breach attempt; and I kept two man teams with the BMP-3s in the group. I heard of the trick about spotting (I use it in CMA as well) but really do it for the PKs...it appears that it does actually help. I was getting spots off pretty quickly, managed to gun a few Bradleys.

Anecdotal, but I will continue to use it and see if my hunch is correct.

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You gentlemen may find the following threads - among others - of interest:

I remember Sublime sharing the tip that the 'cheapest' arrangement in QB is to have MANPADS teams 'man' the BMPs. Steve was of the opinion that breaking up the section to man the commander's station is gamey, as it goes against doctrine. On the other hand, Vladimir Tarasov stated that as a VDV section leader, he would have asked a member of his section to man the commander's station of his BMD when he dismounted, if necessary.

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9 hours ago, Machor said:

You gentlemen may find the following threads - among others - of interest:

A lot of good reading there. For BMP3s I have been doing this for a while now, since reading those threads. I usually use split off scout teams, sniper teams and the platoon HQ. I have not purchased teams to fill those seats but I can confirm that having someone in the command chair does help a lot with spotting.  Mind you I do a lot of area fire from the BMPs based on spotting from the rest of the platoon so it only matters some of the time.

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One of the way of placing AT-Arty. In this case MTLB is close to your AT gun. MTLB can basically cover some flang with its MG, it can also serve as a resuply point, last but not least it can hook up that AT pretty fast. In the same time it is perfectly safe and hidden behind that building. 

L28.jpg

L29.jpg

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100 mm AT guns are super deadly. Against them most active defence is useless, and dynamic defence is mostly helpless. You can destroy anything with it. Yet you should always remember that those guns are not able to move fast enough so while planing your defence always look for the right placement. Moreover it is important to have as much eyes as possible to look around. Spotting an enemy first in this case is must. Hold your MTLV close enough to your AT guns. Place some infantry around to protect, support and observe. It would be nice to have some APC watching its back or side. So quick math right there: 1 AT gun + 1 infantry squad (splited) + MTLB + BMP+foxhole+sandbag wall. Thats the core of your position. Obviously you can always try to work it out with some other AT systems, and so on but try to avoid placing AT guns on their own. If you have an experienced AT gun crew it will do miricales. I mean it can shoot through 2 BMP-3M at one shot! It will just go through it. Just like that. 

L33.jpg

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The concept is good for a large map and a lot of time to hook up, move and redeploy.  But for the average CM2 maps and scenario lengths, you probably have to assume that the AT gun will die in place soon after exposing itself by firing, and there may be better uses for the vehicle and inf.

Also, a firing position with tight keyholed LOS would also be vital on any map.

 

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On 9/13/2017 at 2:34 AM, Oleksandr said:

I hear you man. Its just Im making screenshots and ideas for post when Im in the game - so if I had few defencive games I post few things from defencive perspective. If it is meeting engagement (coming soon) I will post more about combination and positioning. Furthermore I'm going to share some of my own build ups in terms of platoon composition. Thank you for your points by the way. I will aslo share some ideas towards arty in the future. Please feel free to add screen shots to your further answers. + Critics are more than welcome.

I mean, it isn't anything especially interesting to look at: Three squad-sized trench positions, each separated (ideally) by 100-150m, with an outpost positioned approximately 150-200m out in front and BMPs a short (but LoS-blocked) distance to the rear. Spacing set so that nothing can approach through a gap in the weapons' effective range and the OP in front means you have some time to shift forward the BMPs or fall back the squads in case of an approaching force the platoon itself cannot handle. Two of the three squads broken into triple teams, one squad separated in half with the second half occupying the OP to ensure it has a radio.

Obviously you modify it based on terrain, LoS, etc. but the basics are mostly applicable wherever you might want to put eyes and weapons.

1) What about the OP? How do you get them back in case of a quick advance?

Answer: You don't. They die. If that bothers you for whatever reason, don't use an OP.

2) What about flank security?

Answer: This isn't the sort of position you just leave hanging out by itself; it should be tied into other similar positions or heavy weapons capable of covering routes from keyholed positions.

3) What is this good for?

Answer: Denying a broad (roughly 500 meter) frontage to enemy dismounted or APC/IFV fast advance in support of keyholed heavy hitters like tanks, heavy ATGMs,  Forcing them to deploy and run a "by the numbers" attack to eat up time and ammunition while offering you a good chance of escaping with most of your men from anything too big or mean to fight head-on. Taking away the possibility of having a complete platoon under the footprint of a fire mission without losing much, if anything, in terms of direct firepower. It is still expensive in terms of trenches though (200 points is a complete mountain rifle platoon, plus attachments or up-vetting) so it is up to you if you want to use them, but they do allow more flexibility in where you put your defenses because you can take advantage (to an extent) of open terrain. Otherwise, with ample terrain available for cover (as in the screenshot, with plenty of forest to hide in) you do without.

mtn rifle plt defense.jpg

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Anyway, one serious problem with that setup is that you really, really cannot stay there once the enemy knows you are there. It is useful for ambush or light screening if they are just blithely driving through like they own the joint, but if they know what is up, they'll just stop their IFVs/tanks and slow roll into LoS. Even BMP-2s have sensors good enough to pick out troops in trenches and their weapons will annihilate them in short order if there isn't some counter to put into play.

In this case, the counter can be the mountain rifle platoon's own BMPs, but they aren't fully reliable in that roll. Nothing they have will seriously threaten a full AFV in a shootout (AT-5s are slower on the draw than 125mm cannons) and even dueling other BMPs is a coin-toss at times. Sitting back a few action spots in the woods gives you (AFAICT, your mileage may vary) a modest advantage in spotting but it isn't clockwork reliable. Realistically, you want each platoon position like this overwatched/linebacked by some capital system capable of knocking out a full AFV or trio of IFVs in short order; think heavy ATGM or tank of your own.

If you can't always get them, fine, whatever, make do with the AT-5s on your BMPs. But as far as support goes, that flat out sucks.

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2 hours ago, Apocal said:

I mean, it isn't anything especially interesting to look at: Three squad-sized trench positions, each separated (ideally) by 100-150m, with an outpost positioned approximately 150-200m out in front and BMPs a short (but LoS-blocked) distance to the rear. Spacing set so that nothing can approach through a gap in the weapons' effective range and the OP in front means you have some time to shift forward the BMPs or fall back the squads in case of an approaching force the platoon itself cannot handle. Two of the three squads broken into triple teams, one squad separated in half with the second half occupying the OP to ensure it has a radio.

Obviously you modify it based on terrain, LoS, etc. but the basics are mostly applicable wherever you might want to put eyes and weapons.

1) What about the OP? How do you get them back in case of a quick advance?

Answer: You don't. They die. If that bothers you for whatever reason, don't use an OP.

2) What about flank security?

Answer: This isn't the sort of position you just leave hanging out by itself; it should be tied into other similar positions or heavy weapons capable of covering routes from keyholed positions.

3) What is this good for?

Answer: Denying a broad (roughly 500 meter) frontage to enemy dismounted or APC/IFV fast advance in support of keyholed heavy hitters like tanks, heavy ATGMs,  Forcing them to deploy and run a "by the numbers" attack to eat up time and ammunition while offering you a good chance of escaping with most of your men from anything too big or mean to fight head-on. Taking away the possibility of having a complete platoon under the footprint of a fire mission without losing much, if anything, in terms of direct firepower. It is still expensive in terms of trenches though (200 points is a complete mountain rifle platoon, plus attachments or up-vetting) so it is up to you if you want to use them, but they do allow more flexibility in where you put your defenses because you can take advantage (to an extent) of open terrain. Otherwise, with ample terrain available for cover (as in the screenshot, with plenty of forest to hide in) you do without.

mtn rifle plt defense.jpg

I like this set up - it would be cool to have additional platoon as a support unit - what would will move towards attacked squad position. It would be also good to have some foxholes somewhere in the middle and on the back of those positions. And/or minefields between positions. 

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I usually take foxholes and other fortifications to place them as empty dummy targets. In worst case scenario they only draw artillery fire and slow the enemy advance, in best case scenario they expose enemy vehicles as they open up with suppressive fire.  

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1 hour ago, BTR said:

I usually take foxholes and other fortifications to place them as empty dummy targets. In worst case scenario they only draw artillery fire and slow the enemy advance, in best case scenario they expose enemy vehicles as they open up with suppressive fire.  

Good point. barbared wire also shows on a map. 

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One of the way of placing squad supported by BTR-70. Using units such as BTR-70 and BRDM's is good when you standing against non armored units. Or against light armored units. For example using BTR-70's against russian recpnnaissance battalion. Or against enggineer, or while ambushing mortar teams. Distance also playing on your side in this case. It nice to cover up feilds with positions like that. Your infantry will be safe in those foxholes, and your BTR will do most of the work. 

L38.jpg

L39.jpg

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Little anti-arty hint: sometimes it is nice to prepare some positions but without placing your units there right away. Spread ur units around that blue area not too far from a position you prepared. Wait for enemy arty strike - usually it will hit few areas of your defence. In a meanwhile place ur units on those positions what are not being shelled. It will not work if you play against smart player who will put different timings for certain arty strike - but most of the time and especially against AI it will. After all there are no such thing as "perfect" approach. 

L40.jpg

L41.jpg

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28 minutes ago, Artkin said:

UKR snipers carry rpgs? Strap some ghillie suits on them and you have some cheap anti tank infantry :D

 There are no actual snipers in the game - only marksmen. And yes you can put RPG's on any unit you want in this game. 

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15 hours ago, Artkin said:

Did they come with the rpgs?

I always found it odd how AR's were given light anti tank weapons. 

 

When they are in a vehicle it can obtain anything from its stock. So you can make them wear those RPG's, or grab some more ammo, or grenades or whatever) 

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I don't know if this is such a lifehack or not, but in order to get more spotting out of your infantry issue a paused move order and watch them all take a crouched stance instead of laying around. 

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11 minutes ago, BTR said:

I don't know if this is such a lifehack or not, but in order to get more spotting out of your infantry issue a paused move order and watch them all take a crouched stance instead of laying around. 

Fantastic, that slipped my mind. I use this when advancing and attacking in tall foilage/wheat as well.

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Are you sure that the stance taken during a PAUSE is actually calculated differently re LOS than from a normal resting position?  I thought stuff like that was only eye-candy.

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