When should BFC start to develop a CMx3 engine ?

[Stagler]

On very large maps I get markedly less FPS than normal. The repurposed RT master map I released as a QB map for example, that really stretches the limits of how well the engine can run. When I was editing that it would take me a lot of time to scroll across the map.

Is the CPU non-use a feature of the software engine that combat mission uses?

[LukeFF]

There are many possible ways to finance the creation of a new engine.

One would be to search for a Publisher like Paradox or Matrix Games.

 

You do realize BFC once had a business partnership with Paradox that they dropped because it ended up being a bad idea?

[Lacroix]

Given the fact that the difference between 30 and 60 FPS is barely visible, you are just bashing for no reason.

 

Optimization can be improved (multi-core) but if it's the case it's not just to run on huge FPS.

 

If you really can't play at 30 it's your problem.

25 and 30 are two different worlds, anything bellow 30 and you can notice stuttering. ideally 60 fps is what it should be considering how low the system requirements are but i'd be happy enough with 30. thing is,its not 30 always,it goes to 20s,unless i set models to fast or fastest. for real time this is a big deal,even turn based Hamachi games

[Lacroix]

In fact we are discussing CM games, not FPS.

fps is core of every game. and since were talking about game, i think its pretty obvious

[ASL Veteran]

It has infantry formations and a "Use Road" command.

 

So you would rate infantry combat in GTOS as superior to infantry combat in Combat Mission then?

 

I just think its cheap from BFC to always use the same year for their games (CMBN, CMRT, Bulge)...sure that helps them to recycle content and save work but i as a customer want something fresh, something truly "new" !

We cant have engine improvements because BFC has no time/money, fine. but at least give us some fresh scenarios and gear to play with (france'40 or the winter-war).

Maybe so, but as a highly experienced veteran of software development you would know that Time = Money right? What is the primary cost of software development? Answer - the amount that you have to pay people to create it. Therefore the more new 3D and 2D art a software development team has to create the longer it takes to complete it.  The longer it takes to complete the project the more it costs to create it.  Why does it cost more to create it?  Because you have to pay people for a longer amount of time in order to create it.  You are already on record as saying that BFC's business model is flawed yet you seem to be demanding that more art content be created - which means that each game would take longer to finish - which means that each game will cost more to produce because it will take longer to complete.  Given the current size of the company that sounds like a .... ahem .... well a bad business decision to me.

[Lacroix]

 

So you would rate infantry combat in GTOS as superior to infantry combat in Combat Mission then?

 

Maybe so, but as a highly experienced veteran of software development you would know that Time = Money right? What is the primary cost of software development? Answer - the amount that you have to pay people to create it. Therefore the more new 3D and 2D art a software development team has to create the longer it takes to complete it.  The longer it takes to complete the project the more it costs to create it.  Why does it cost more to create it?  Because you have to pay people for a longer amount of time in order to create it.  You are already on record as saying that BFC's business model is flawed yet you seem to be demanding that more art content be created - which means that each game would take longer to finish - which means that each game will cost more to produce because it will take longer to complete.  Given the current size of the company that sounds like a .... ahem .... well a bad business decision to me.

you know,capitalism is cruel or smth. work harder i guess.customers demand more

[MikeyD]

So you are demanding that BFC get entirely out of the wargame business, go for the big bucks producing razzle-dazzle for fourteen year olds?

[snarre]

i tjust wondering oweral why you guys ewen continue playing if game is sou bad on your mind ? 

[LukeFF]

Ok, back to topic, we are taliking about CMx3 here not GTOS !

 

And yet, you were the first one to bring up GTOS here. 

[Lacroix]

So you are demanding that BFC get entirely out of the wargame business, go for the big bucks producing razzle-dazzle for fourteen year olds?

if that was for me, no.

just,bring diverse content (which requires more time and gives less profit) instead of creating clones. i as a customer, like diverse content

iam all for uber realism 

[Wiggum15]

So you would rate infantry combat in GTOS as superior to infantry combat in Combat Mission then?

No, not necessarily.

 

So you are demanding that BFC get entirely out of the wargame business, go for the big bucks producing razzle-dazzle for fourteen year olds?

What ?

Look, they as a commercial company try to make as much money as possible for the lowest amount of work/cost as possible.

I as a customer can demand that they invest more work/money into their games even if this means they make less profit.

They can choose to ignore me, i can choose to not buy their products.

But then again i hope they as a small team have dedication and love for their product, at least as much as all the ArmA modders for example that create all those models and textures for free in their freetime.

I mean as far as i know they already "use" community members for scenario and content creation.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Wiggum15

[LukeFF]

you know,capitalism is cruel or smth. work harder i guess.customers demand more

 

 

if that was for me, no.

just,bring diverse content (which requires more time and gives less profit) instead of creating clones. i as a customer, like diverse content

iam all for uber realism 

 

That's easy to say when it's not your business's success that's on the line.

[Wiggum15]

That's easy to say when it's not your business's success that's on the line.

He has nothing to do with BFC except that he buys their games. Why should he have sleepless nights about their business's success ?

BFC has to have them, if they choose the wrong strategy they are done for, and i fear they are currently doing something wrong...

Their old fans will not always be here to buy their products and new ones are rarely interested in a badly performing 10 year old engine with fundamental flaws.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Wiggum15

[Fizou]

all they do regarding 'progress' is change the name of the title,add 6 new vehicles,make campaigns that are nowhere near interesting as multiplayer experience and dont fix problems that were present  8 years ago and make 50 maps out of which 35 are crap

 

if you really think couple new targeting mechanics ,broken shaders and holes(decals) on tanks are major improvement then its fine (over the course of 8 , or should i say 10 years soon)

 

A bunch of ridiculous exaggeration (always far more than 6 new vehicles, that you don't appreciate the small changes between mid and late tank variants just shows you don't get this kind of games. Many people enjoy the campaigns and single play, others only play mp. What game breaking problems are still there after 10 years? Most maps certainly are not crap, and you can make your own). Show me a game that comes even close to what CM does in this genera and offers such a excellent multiplayer experience.   

 

Better graphics, more variations, new code for mg's, on map mortars etc. CMx2 has come far compared to CMSF. WW2 to modern certainly is not only new skinned vehicles.   

[LukeFF]

He has nothing to do with BFC except that he buys their games. Why should he have sleepless nights about their business's success ?

BFC has to have them, if they choose the wrong strategy they are done for, and i fear they are currently doing something wrong...

 

Do you just not get it? If BFC had chosen the wrong strategy they would have been done for long ago. Like I said, it's easy to say "work harder, who cares if the profit margin is less!" when it's not you making the decisions affecting whether or not the company will be solvent come 6-10 months down the road. 

[Kieme(ITA)]

fps is core of every game. and since were talking about game, i think its pretty obvious

 

Different game types, the fact is you pretend a game to run at 60 when there is no visual difference between 30 and 60 FPS in a game such as an RTS.

I am glad the developers know better and invest their time in other things rather than getting a double frame rate.

 

The original question of the poll was interesting, now it's turned into a mindless bashing based on personal taste and restricted views.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Kieme(ITA)]

Anyway those spitting on CM campaigns never even clicked on the "editor" button in the main menu. No wonder they can't even appreciate what campaigns and missions truly are.

I'm sorry, but all the respect I have for those making and testing campaigns and mission is the same quantity of disrespect I have for those spitting on campaigns.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[slysniper]

The more I read about the issues and why they want a new game engine. It appears it is all about the graphics more than the game features.

It just drives them crazy to not see their frame rates at 60 and the game not appearing as it does for them in some other games.

Yes, there is rants about game features, but between this thread and the others they have high jacked. Most of the desire and attitude they show is when it comes to the graphics and how the game functions.

No one should really be defending CM when it comes down to these items, they are outdated and do not use the computer power as it possible could. But some of that is intentional and some of it is from the inability to create a new engine with each new development in home computers.

This is a small time company and they cannot afford or meet them demands. Even if they started today on a new engine, by the time the publish it will again be outdated, plus they have always believed in making their product so it would run on older machines so that everyone that played did not need the latest new rig.

So face it, you young Bucks that are Graphic Porn sluts will never get your fix from BF when it comes to giving you fantastic graphics.

So for you, just keep hoping for a big money company to provide that to you, but Guess what, they do but with no game substance. They draw pretty pictures and take your money and you wonder why you get so bored so quickly. Because you always need new porn to fill your lust.

No game Porn Here, Just a great game -

[Lacroix]

The more I read about the issues and why they want a new game engine. It appears it is all about the graphics more than the game features.

It just drives them crazy to not see their frame rates at 60 and the game not appearing as it does for them in some other games.

Yes, there is rants about game features, but between this thread and the others they have high jacked. Most of the desire and attitude they show is when it comes to the graphics and how the game functions.

No one should really be defending CM when it comes down to these items, they are outdated and do not use the computer power as it possible could. But some of that is intentional and some of it is from the inability to create a new engine with each new development in home computers.

This is a small time company and they cannot afford or meet them demands. Even if they started today on a new engine, by the time the publish it will again be outdated, plus they have always believed in making their product so it would run on older machines so that everyone that played did not need the latest new rig.

So face it, you young Bucks that are Graphic Porn sluts will never get your fix from BF when it comes to giving you fantastic graphics.

So for you, just keep hoping for a big money company to provide that to you, but Guess what, they do but with no game substance. They draw pretty pictures and take your money and you wonder why you get so bored so quickly. Because you always need new porn to fill your lust.

No game Porn Here, Just a great game -

i dont care about graphics (as long as they are not completely awful ), but give me my 30 Frames per second. and yes there is a difference between 30 and 60 fps, i dont even need to think about it to notice it ,it feels slower. and for real time (Steve's favorite way to play as far as i know) Fps Does matter. CM and its complexity,many actions happening at the same time /different places + not so clean graphics can reduce fun , specially if you add on top of that 20-25 fps.

 

and again, 30 fps and 60fps, Difference is BIG, even in Rts games.

and again, i see people are twisting my words,i would be satisfied with standard 31 fps, i dont need 60, all i am saying is that System requirement suggests that new rigs can run this at 60 (or 120 to be honest)  fps,while in reality, no rig can run it decently  , Unless* as i said you reduce models to Fastest,but then the game can look weird

[Kieme(ITA)]

 all i am saying is that System requirement suggests that new rigs can run this at 60 (or 120 to be honest)

 

From the selling page:

 

System Requirements MINIMUM:

• Operating System: Windows Vista
• Processor: Pentium IV 1.8 GHz or equivalent speed AMD processor
• Video Card: 256 Megabyte VRAM or better and must support 1024x768 or higher resolution in OpenGL
• Sound Card: DirectX 10 compatible Sound Card
• System Memory 2 GB RAM
• Hard Drive Space: 3.5 GB
• Other requirements: DVD drive (for hardcopy version only)
• The game does not work in a virtualized environment (virtual machine)

System Requirements SUGGESTED:

• Operating System: Windows Win7/Win8
• Processor: Pentium IV 2.8 GHz or equivalent speed AMD processor or better
• DirectX 12 compatible Sound Card
• Video Card: 1 GB VRAM or better and must support 1024x768 or higher resolution in OpenGL
• System Memory 4 Gigabyte or more RAM
• Hard Drive Space: 5 GB
• Other requirements: DVD drive (for hardcopy version only)
• The game does not work in a virtualized environment (virtual machine)

The "suggestion" must be somewhere inside your mind only.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Lacroix]

From the selling page:

 

System Requirements MINIMUM:

• Operating System: Windows Vista
• Processor: Pentium IV 1.8 GHz or equivalent speed AMD processor
• Video Card: 256 Megabyte VRAM or better and must support 1024x768 or higher resolution in OpenGL
• Sound Card: DirectX 10 compatible Sound Card
• System Memory 2 GB RAM
• Hard Drive Space: 3.5 GB
• Other requirements: DVD drive (for hardcopy version only)
• The game does not work in a virtualized environment (virtual machine)

System Requirements SUGGESTED:

• Operating System: Windows Win7/Win8
• Processor: Pentium IV 2.8 GHz or equivalent speed AMD processor or better
• DirectX 12 compatible Sound Card
• Video Card: 1 GB VRAM or better and must support 1024x768 or higher resolution in OpenGL
• System Memory 4 Gigabyte or more RAM
• Hard Drive Space: 5 GB
• Other requirements: DVD drive (for hardcopy version only)
• The game does not work in a virtualized environment (virtual machine)

The "suggestion" must be somewhere inside your mind only.

suggested (not minimal) 1gb Vram (doesnt even specify is it ddr3 or 5 , k lets say its 5 but its not) 4gb of Ram, in reality maximum 4 (and you need 1-2 more for other processes in your pc), processor Pentium IV 2.8 ghz. k , i have double, or tripple the Suggested requirements. if that is not suggesting 60 fps then i duuno what is

 

games running on less than 30 fps are considered unplayable

Edited July 7, 2015 by Lacroix

[Kieme(ITA)]

What you say is something only you imagine. It is simply not correct to say that requirements of any software "suggest" something that is not there.

[ASL Veteran]

No, not necessarily.

So if GTOS has infantry formations, Combat Mission does not, and you don't 'necessarily' think that GTOS infantry combat is superior then it stands to reason that the correlation you draw between infantry formations being necessary in Combat Mission in order to improve infantry combat isn't a valid one.  Has the thought occurred to you that perhaps the reason infantry combat in GTOS isn't necessarily superior to infantry combat in Combat Mission is because of the infantry formations?

 

In the deep recesses of my mind I recall Steve saying (hopefully publicly) that a game company was asking Steve to host their game on the BFC website.  He said he played it but the game didn't work very well because of the infantry formations in it.  Ultimately he rejected that company's request that Battlefront serve as their store front.  I don't think he ever mentioned the name of the company or the game but his description seems to match that of what I'm reading about GTOS here.  Wouldn't that be ironic that the very game being promoted as 'superior' is a game that Steve refused to sell in his store.

Edited July 7, 2015 by ASL Veteran

[Lacroix]

What you say is something only you imagine. It is simply not correct to say that requirements of any software "suggest" something that is not there.

ok fair enough

 

then battlefront truly believes that 25 or 15 fps (on bigger maps,on the pcs they suggest) is the norm

[Kieme(ITA)]

 

 

games running on less than 30 fps are considered unplayable

 

 

Then I must have spent some time in magic lands since I play CMBS with no problems.