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When should BFC start to develop a CMx3 engine ?


When should BFC start to develop a CMx3 engine  

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  1. 1. When should BFC start to develop a CMx3 engine

    • Right after they finish the Bulge game
      8
    • Let them finish Bulge and Modules for CMRT and CMBS first
      13
    • They can use the CMx2 engine as long as they like, its fine for me
      21
    • I doubt there will ever be a CMx3 engine...
      5
    • I think they should have started long ago and we should already have CMx3 by now !
      7


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Hi !

CMSF is 8 years old now, technically i would say that we play the same game for 8 years now...

Its time to move to the next level of wargaming !

What do you think, when should BFC start to develop a CMx3 engine ?

What would be the features you want to see in it ?

Do you want it on Steam ?

Do you think a Kickstarter or Early-Access Model would work for BFC ?

My most wanted features:

- Reworked Infantry Simulation (Movement, Formations, Cover, Spotting) right now i think its pretty unrealistic

- Better TacAI, especially for the enemy AI, more situational awareness and a kind of self preservation (better Panic behavior !)

- More Commands like a "Use Road" or Road Movement command for Vehicles

- Make suppression more effective

- Finally enable the TacAI to use bridges

- Reworked Building Model + special MOUT commands

- Inf - Vehicle (Tank,IFV,APC) cooperation commands

- Better simulation of Night Combat with Flares and a NVG View

- Better Modeling of terrain, terrain deformation and real trenches and foxholes not that ugly things we have now (but still with FOW)

- The Option to mark buildings as prepared for defense in the editor

- Fighting Positions for Vehicles

- Better Quick Battles, better automatic force selection

- More options for the AI in the Editor, more trigger options and waypoints

- SOP's for the action Phase like "Evade enemy fire" or "Area fire at suspected enemy positions" or "only engage enemy AFV's"

- Better graphics with not such a comic look like in CMx2

- No more "floating in green goo" map

- Completely redone UI

- Better optimization for Dual and Quad Core CPU's

- Reduce loading times

- Map overlay system

- Actually show us the aircraft

- Wet surfaces during rain

- Build in Vehicle and Weapon Encyclopedia

What do you think ?

Edited by Wiggum15
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When should BFC start to develop a CMx3 engine?

 

Whenever they feel it is the right time for them to develop a new engine.

 

Personally I can live with the 'old' engine for years. Same way I was able to live with the CMx1 engine for years. 

 

Nothing else available comes within a asses roar of CMx2 at the moment or even CMx1 for that matter.

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If you're talking about writing an entirely new game engine from the ground-up be careful what you wish for. The real money is in doing iphone games based on anime erotica for the Japanese market. They'll never get rich doing wargames for you and me.

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There are many possible ways to finance the creation of a new engine.

One would be to search for a Publisher like Paradox or Matrix Games.

Or use Kickstarter and look how much money you can collect.

I would go for this approach:

1. Work on a concept for a CMx3 engine

2. Release all the CMx2 games and modules on Steam (on a date like VE day or something), do a discount like 20% for the first few weeks...the popularity of CM will go through the roof !

4. Make sure all those new CM players know about the Kickstarter campaign for CMx3

If you reach the goal and can actually build a CMx3 engine, great ! Maybe they can collect enough money to hire additional developers, artists.

6. Do a Early Access to collect additional money while still in development

But i suspect BFC wants to play it as safe as possible and fears such a approach. They make enough money with CMx2 and know pretty well how much money they make with every "new" game and module.

Possible they can all carry on this way till they can retire and become full-time grandpas.

Edited by Wiggum15
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If you're talking about writing an entirely new game engine from the ground-up be careful what you wish for. The real money is in doing iphone games based on anime erotica for the Japanese market. They'll never get rich doing wargames for you and me.

 

Developing a completely new engine from the ground up is a work of several years. I d rather have them finish the CMx2 series first before they start CMx3, because then at least there is enough CMx2 content for me to play until they got CMx3 ready.

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There are many possible ways to finance the creation of a new engine.

One would be to search for a Publisher like Paradox or Matrix Games.

Or use Kickstarter and look how much money you can collect.

I would go for this approach:

1. Work on a concept for a CMx3 engine

2. Release all the CMx2 games and modules on Steam, do a discount like 20% for the first few weeks...the popularity of CM will go through the roof !

4. Make sure all those new CM players know about the Kickstarter campaign for CMx3

If you reach the goal and can actually build a CMx3 engine, great !

If not you at least tried it.

But i suspect BFC fears such a approach. They make enough money with CMx2 and know pretty well how much money they make with every "new" game and module.

Possible they can all carry on this way till they can retire and become full-time grandpas.

 

Wiggum what' s your age and occupational background that you think you are qualified to tell others how to lead their company?

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Wiggum what' s your age and occupational background that you think you are qualified to tell others how to lead their company?

What' s your age and occupational background that you think you are qualified to tell others what kind of suggestions they can make and not make on a internet forum ?

Do you know the word "Gedankenspiel" ?

But if its a serious question:

Iam 17 and my occupational background is that i live in my parents basement...

Edited by Wiggum15
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But i suspect BFC wants to play it as safe as possible and fears such a approach. They make enough money with CMx2 and know pretty well how much money they make with every "new" game and module.

Possible they can all carry on this way till they can retire and become full-time grandpas.

 

 

I'm not sure what you find so objectionable about 'playing it safe' - it seems to have worked out quite well so far.

 

I've read a lot of your posts recently. To be fair to you a lot of your criticisms about minor issues with the games are valid enough - if a little overblown.

 

CM is still the only really high fidelity tactical combat simulator on the market - one that brings tabletop gaming of old onto the computer screen. That tells me the market is small - too small to risk spending huge amounts of money at new engines and AAA graphics in the hope thousands of new fans of realistic combat simulators will suddenly appear out of nowhere.

 

Slow and steady has been winning the race since CMBO was released. Why risk it all now on a mad gamble?

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Hmmm... when they start their new Japanese anime erotica game engine I wonder if they'd bring me in to do the art. :P  B)

Please dont derail this thread, if you have a affection to Japanese anime erotica games, fine. But we are talking about CM here !

Thanks !

 

Slow and steady has been winning the race since CMBO was released. Why risk it all now on a mad gamble?

Whats the risk from putting games on Steam on starting a kickstarter campaign ?

That some über-hardcore grogs will no longer buy your products because you have become mainstream ?

 

CM is still the only really high fidelity tactical combat simulator on the market

I thought the same, then i discovered GTOS (the new Steam version) and was blown away !

By the way, there are dry hardcore wargames like "Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations" on Steam and i bet CM would outsell them every day !

Edited by Wiggum15
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I thought the same, then i discovered GTOS (the new Steam version) and was blown away !

By the way, there are dry hardcore wargames like "Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations" on Steam and i bet CM would outsell them every day !

 

 

GTOS is OK. Not a patch on CM. Infantry combat is woeful - which sucks for a WW2 title. Although it does have decent enough graphics.

 

I bought it for $2.50 during the recent summer sale. I'd say the company who made it are making out like bandits on Steam.

 

Matrix games now seems to focus on Ipad games and constant releases of 'new' games featuring the old Close Combat and Panzer General engines. Paradox releases the same strategic level game again and again with a re-skin for different time periods. They also seem to release a lot of stuff for those games using micro-transactions - I count nearly 40 different small add-ons for HoI3 alone.  

 

 

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GTOS is OK. Not a patch on CM. Infantry combat is woeful - which sucks for a WW2 title. Although it does have decent enough graphics.

Mhh, i actually would say GTOS is in many aspects superior to CMx2 although it has a bit of a different scale.

Infantry combat is not woeful, you just cant micro-manage your Inf like in CM. Make sure they move at the right time to the right position and everything is fine.

Graphics are not just "decent", they blow away CMx2 in every aspect, CM is not even the same league.

 

I bought it for $2.50 during the recent summer sale. I'd say the company who made it are making out like bandits on Steam.

What should that mean ?

They have a great game with interesting scenarios, regulary add new features and fix bugs + its way cheaper then CM.

 

Paradox releases the same strategic level game again and again with a re-skin for different time periods.

Wow, thats actually the best description ever for CMx2 and BFC... ;)

Just replace "Paradox" with "BFC" and "strategic" with "tactical"...

Edited by Wiggum15
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"I thought the same, then i discovered GTOS (the new Steam version) and was blown away !

By the way, there are dry hardcore wargames like "Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations" on Steam and i bet CM would outsell them every day !"

 

I only diddled around with GTOS, does it even have buildings?  I don't recall seeing any.  Infantry is an utter joke. Graphics are nice though.

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"I thought the same, then i discovered GTOS (the new Steam version) and was blown away !

By the way, there are dry hardcore wargames like "Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations" on Steam and i bet CM would outsell them every day !"

 

I only diddled around with GTOS, does it even have buildings?  I don't recall seeing any.  Infantry is an utter joke. Graphics are nice though.

It has building and "real" trenches (even fighting positions for armored vehicles !).

As i said above, you cant play the Inf like in CM because micro-managment is sanctioned...issue to many commands in a short time and they get confused and stop following your orders.

Command & Control is modeled in great detail, you really have to be careful and plan ahead.

But please, this thread is not about GTOS !

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Wow, thats actually the best description ever for CMx2 and BFC... ;-)

Just replace "Paradox" with "BFC" and "strategic" with "tactical"...

 

Yeah it just goes to show among the main developers and publishers of tactical or strategic games that their isn't a market to be releasing AAA graphics titles with new engines every few years. To stay profitable they build an engine and gradually improve it over many years. Personally I don't mind such business practices - I get to play the games and the companies stay profitable to release more games even if they are based on 'older' engines.

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I only diddled around with GTOS, does it even have buildings?  I don't recall seeing any.  Infantry is an utter joke. Graphics are nice though.

 

I'm in many ways a big fan of GTOS, but you're spot on about infantry combat -- it sucks.

 

Have to say though that i'd pretty much kill for CM to have something like GTOS's dynamic campaigns -- still the one big advantage GTOS has over CM.

 

But the lack of sophistication in infantry combat in GTOS can be a game breaker, coming from CM, I agree.

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What' s your age and occupational background that you think you are qualified to tell others what kind of suggestions they can make and not make on a internet forum ?

 

Now there are two options:

 

A- You are dodging my question which indicates that even you yourself dont regard yourself as qualified - otherwise, why would you lie? If you had a background that would give weight to your views, you would have most likely answeard my question honestly instead of avoiding an answear.

 

 

But if its a serious question:

Iam 17 and my occupational background is that i live in my parents basement...

 

Or:

B- You are actually honest - in which case you also most likely have no clue about how to lead a software company.

 

 

 

 

What' s your age and occupational background that you think you are qualified to tell others what kind of suggestions they can make and not make on a internet forum ?

 

I asked you because i wanted to know if you actually know what you are talking about or if you are just narcisstically overestimating yourself. You are suggesting a couple of peolpe who are financially dependent on the success of their company to change their business strategy despite it has worked well for the last decade - why should they listen you? Because of a 150 word rant? Most likely not.

 

But regarding your question, i didnt tell you what to suggest and what not - i asked you why you think your suggestions should be taken seriously.

Edited by agusto
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Mhh, i actually would say GTOS is in many aspects superior to CMx2 although it has a bit of a different scale.

Infantry combat is not woeful, you just cant micro-manage your Inf like in CM. Make sure they move at the right time to the right position and everything is fine.

Graphics are not just "decent", they blow away CMx2 in every aspect, CM is not even the same league.

 

Simply wrong. Infantry combat in GTOS is laughably simplistic, completely lacking in tactical nuance. German infantry anti-tank capabilities are essentially non-existent. A T-34 can close with German troops occupying decent defensive positions and slaughter them. To do the same with a tank in CM would be suicidal, and correctly so.

 

Graphics by no means 'blow away CMx2 in every respect'. GTOS does a nice job of creating an atmospheric environment that is arguably superior to CM. But CM's vehicle models (esp. modded models by Aris and other talented modders) are every bit the equal of GTOS -- and again, GTOS infantry are downright primitive in appearance and in realism of movement, and simply cannot compare with what CM offers graphically.

 

I say this as someone who has devoted countless hours to GTOS, Achtung Panzer Kharkov etc. etc. There's a lot I admire about the game, but CM is superior on so many levels that I've essentially shelved it. I look forward to Mius Front, if it ever comes out, but I don't expect it to rival CM.

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But regarding your question, i didnt tell you what to suggest and what not - i asked you why you think your suggestions should be taken seriously.

Its up to BFC if they will take it seriously, most likely not but i dont care, its just what i think could work, sorry for not being the manager of a multi-millon dollar game company.

I apologize for that...

@ sandman2575

I dont agree with most of what you said, but again its not about GTOS.

But saying that "CM is superior on so many levels" is a bit daring...

Edited by Wiggum15
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...sorry for not being the manager of a multi-millon dollar game company.

I apologize for that...

 

Now you are trying to make me justify myself for something that i' have never said.

 

Its up to BFC if they will take it seriously, most likely not but i dont care, its just what i think could work,

 

Still you are so confidently agitating that BFC have chosen the wrong path in so many ways...that' s exactely why some of the replies you got in the other thread were so unfriendly.

 

But let' s leave it at that, i dont want another thread get closed because of a meaningless fight.

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