The new mystery box

[Vinnart]

FOURTH:

This has been shown here before, and I recall Steve thought it a good idea, but not possible for some coding reason. Hopefully in the future it can be made possible. Currently the player must reorintate the camera, and zoom in to find out what weapon is down by viewing the model. To eliminate this the downed weapon goes red/dark red, and remains in the UI until buddy aid is finished, then it disappears. This improves situational awareness, and streamline camera management time.

Other than that I wouldn’t make any radical changes, and would call this bottom part GUI high, and tight. Beyond that, the right facing the weapons improves accommodating the text, and the animated text mod is superior in function of processing the info at a glance, and is more interesting over the text only for the soldier stat text alone.

That’s it for the GUI for the most part as my feedback goes from using it since CM came out. I am speaking solely of the GUI as I think there are a few command, and control features that would improve, and streamline control .The ROSTER unit management tool, or something very similar is the only other tool needed to complete, and solve any other remaining situational awareness challenges the real time HvH player faces not only in this game, but in EVERY real time game. To learn more about the ROSTER concept, and to see the development please check out this thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=104982 Most refined designs are at the end.

[General Lee Irked]

I just want sharks with FRICKEN laser beams! Oh Yeah and an evil volcano base of operations that has a self destruct button and escape pods that I can use when my PBEM opponent has gotten the upper hand.

or

A division of plasma rifle(like the ones in fallout) pixeltruppen so I can make my enemies melt into a gooey mess.

and... never mind I think you all are doing a fantastic job. Is it August yet?

[Canada Guy]

One thing nice to have would be to see how many men at a glace you have remaining in unit. Instead of having to look through and count the green text, little green dots like that for vehicles would be nice (or at least do not remove the KIA weapons but rather change them To a different colour.

The ability to see which units are in C2 immediately rather than having to always read the bottom screen. Something like in CMx1 where clicking on a HQ would then show you black/red lines for in/out of C2. I know some people loved it and some hated it but I found it very useful.

Mouse-overs for each UI item as you are correct in that there is a lot of stuff to look at and sometimes I do of know what it is exactly I am seeing. A small mouse over to assist my memory would be good.

I like the visual ques for ammo availability

I also like the roster to see a more comprehensive C2

Ammo for each weapon. Sometimes I do not know which Mao goes with each weapon and I do not want to have to read the manual each time just to pick up some ammo. Again, maybe a mouse-over to show distance and ammo type.

Passenger/Floor/unbuttoned would also be useful as a visual que

Using a border around the icons rather than fading them as sometimes I know there is a unit somewhere but I cannot find it when faded. A coloured outline would work better for me. Not really a UI but a visual clue again.

[Vinnart]

I just want sharks with FRICKEN laser beams! Oh Yeah and an evil volcano base of operations that has a self destruct button and escape pods that I can use when my PBEM opponent has gotten the upper hand.

or

A division of plasma rifle(like the ones in fallout) pixeltruppen so I can make my enemies melt into a gooey mess.

and... never mind I think you all are doing a fantastic job. Is it August yet?

I know your busting balls, But what I talk about here are core important situational awareness aspects that I think complete in many ways to challenges that all players face. Lets please keep this conversation about sensible thoughts, between adults. Most of the post I talk about here are geared toward the sensible in a constructive feedback manor from an experienced user’s perspective. I never ask for stupid stuff like this out of context, or waist time worrying about trivial things like a missing unit here, or 1,000 post thread on petty stuff like worry a tank rocks a bit when it shoots. This thread is about constructive feedback.

[sburke]

I know your busting balls, But what I talk about here are core important situational awareness aspects that I think complete in many ways to challenges that all players face. Lets please keep this conversation about sensible thoughts, between adults. Most of the post I talk about here are geared toward the sensible in a constructive feedback manor from an experienced user’s perspective. I never ask for stupid stuff like this out of context, or waist time worrying about trivial things like a missing unit here, or 1,000 post thread on petty stuff like worry a tank rocks a bit when it shoots. This thread is about constructive feedback.

LOL look out man the anti tank rocking bde is gonna be burning you in effigy next.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

I never ask for stupid stuff like this out of context, or waist time worrying about trivial things like a missing unit here, or 1,000 post thread on petty stuff like worry a tank rocks a bit when it shoots.

A bit!!!

Regards

KR

[Vinnart]

LOL look out man the anti tank rocking bde is gonna be burning you in effigy next.

Yeah I don’t need those guys chiming in to get us all off topic . I guess the point I am making is I am more interested in, and find priority in matters that perfect the steering wheel rather than worrying about the hot paint job. If your steering went out in the car I doubt worrying about the window dressing would be a priority at that point. I hear you though. Fortunately that discussion has already happened, and to get into those concerns here would be out of context as to what is being discussed here steering wise. CM steers well, but I think some of the things I am mentioning here adds the final touches to improve how well it steers from my user experience so far.

[LukeFF]

The best way to help us design better games is to tell us what information you want to see and not try to design the game yourselves. It's not a good use of time or energy. I say that because in the last 12 years I can't count how many feature requests from you guys that we've implemented. However, I can probably count on one hand how many micro-managed suggestions we've implemented. Though I would have to start by remembering at least one. None come to mind, though I'm sure there are some.

Give us feedback, we give you solutions. Best recipe in the book.

Steve

Steve, one thing I'd like to see in the game is tooltip text for the rank insignia. It's the one remaining bit of information in the GUI that would benefit from having this feature.

[JonS]

Steve, one thing I'd like to see in the game is tooltip text for the rank insignia. It's the one remaining bit of information in the GUI that would benefit from having this feature.

Well sort of, but having a tooltip that reads "Uberunterhamsterwaffleflopper" doesn't leave me a whole lot wiser than just looking at a series of squiggly lines that appear to form the image of a small rodent.

I think this is the kind of thing that's possibly best dealt with by modders, perhaps with the addition of some text to each rank image. Especially if they're kind enough to provide the option of the rank in it's native tongue and/or the equivalent rank in English or American.

[Vinnart]

Steve, one thing I'd like to see in the game is tooltip text for the rank insignia. It's the one remaining bit of information in the GUI that would benefit from having this feature.

What I did, and suggest to you, to learn the ranks of foreign armies just go to the PDF manual and print the page that explains them. Before long you will see you will learn them, and will no longer need the cheat sheet.

[Vinnart]

The best way to help us design better games is to tell us what information you want to see and not try to design the game yourselves. It's not a good use of time or energy. I say that because in the last 12 years I can't count how many feature requests from you guys that we've implemented. However, I can probably count on one hand how many micro-managed suggestions we've implemented. Though I would have to start by remembering at least one. None come to mind, though I'm sure there are some.

Give us feedback, we give you solutions. Best recipe in the book.

Steve

I have a pretty good track record here for giving useful feedback in support of good practical ways of improving the game mostly dealing with situational awareness, and unit control. Things like window dressings like extra units I never concern myself with beyond just a comment here, and there, because I do not find them priority.

Some of these good practical ways of improving the game mostly dealing with situational awareness have found their way into the game just because they were good, and logical inclusions to address problems no matter who first gives feedback on it. What I have found is Battlefront looks at the practical request, and incorporates it in a different, and often better way. Here is just one example:

The desire was to have better situational awareness for casualties, and panicked units. I am sure I just threw a quick graphic up to show roughly the idea with having a red marker appear as seen in many other games. They incorporated it with the rapid flicker, and the fade, which was better.

Here are a few others that come to mind I have been in included on being in favor of that are now in the game that we see are good, smart improvements:

*More distinct unit icons.

*FoW icons.

Some like the animated text concept to improve the soldier stat text so one can make sense of it better I was able to do on my own through modding. Marco really deserves credit here in making the concept the best. If they like that concept, and want it outside of modding it is there’s to have. I say that because it is a good improvement, and because of the compatibility issues that have occurred differently than with other mods. I do understand there is a fail safe in the works to prevent further problems with mod incompatibilities, which is good. My only desire is that it can still be available compatibility wise In the future at the very least as a mod. I know i would not want to play without it, and know others feel the same way.

When I present what I want to convey to the develops in graphics it is just my way of how I express myself with feedback, and am never insisting that the way I show it is exactly how it should be done. It is just to show it visually in a rough way most of the time, plus it gives me chance to play with photoshop for a little creative fun, and to get more experience with the program. The creative buzz is the same as when I paint, or draw my fine art. It is fun for me, and I really do it for me first, but feel it more useful to share. I am a professional accomplished designer, inventor, and creative artist with an experienced trained eye for visual communication so in this regard I bring some validity in observations. I am also an experienced real time player in understanding that arena in how it differs with WEGO style play. All creative designers benefit from critique as it is through that that often the best designs are realized. This goes for me as well as everyone who designs. Rarely no matter the experience level does one get it perfect right from the start. Development is always a process no matter the product. I try to explain that to people here when they go off on tirades about something that may not be perfect with the game.

I just want to put this last one up as it is the best improvement even though it be hypothetical. Again I am not insisting here, just showing how sensitive the eye is in picking out minor changes. If compared to the first one I through up where Steve said it was hard to read, and cramped feeling you will feel, and see a difference. He was right in that it did not look as good as it could. Like "Pinned" the text is only there when it applies otherwise the box remains empty. If one compares the first, and this next to each other you will see how criticism in deficiencies is improved by:

*Improving placement for context.

*Increasing negative space to max (just below the chin), for easier readability, and less cramping. This could be even better improved by adding more negative space around the head by making it a bit smaller.

*Changed background to black from dark grey for maximum contrast to increase readability.

Like I said, in regard to the GUI I think it is very good overall as is in giving the most essential information needed, but only needs a few of the things I have mentioned in regard to necessary information the player needs for the reasons I have given. Finding ways to improve how that same needed information that is there now is conveyed is always good like the new design for the special equipment. Same information, but given in a more concise, and clear way while not taking anything good away.

[Vinnart]

If anyone is interested in seeing my artwork here is a link: www.vincentmonaco.com Hey can’t resist the chance to give myself a plug

[Battlefront.com]

Vinnart,

Here are a few others that come to mind I have been in included on being in favor of that are now in the game that we see are good, smart improvements:

*More distinct unit icons.

*FoW icons.

Yeah, but what you don't understand is that both of these have been on the drawing board since 2006 or so. As in before any of you saw the first screenshot of CMSF, not to mention actually playing it.

So why has it taken so long to get these things in? Well, if you saw the designs I've come up with since 2004 you'd understand... there's hundreds of things "on the board" and only so much time to implement them. Some of them, like the FoW Icons, require gameplay changes that have zero to do with the UI itself. Something like a more expanded pallet of Floating Icons introduces a lot more work on the TO&E side of things, which thankfully I've automated to such an extent it's not a technical problem any more.

The most useful thing to get from you guys is feedback about which bits of info you find lacking, useful, not useful, etc. That's all we need. Trying to micromanage our design process isn't helpful because you don't have all the information necessary for such things.

Which is why it's very useful to have you guys focus on things like "I'd like to see more floating icon diversity" because that sort of feedback pushed that particular element up on the agenda over the other hundreds of things.

We have been slowly adding more ToolTip stuff into the game. Not nearly as much or as fast as I would like. The primary problem with ToolTips is we then have to manage the "tips" part of it. Not just in English but in the other languages as well. It's a royal PITA. However, it is definitely useful for you guys and so we do need to make more effort in that department. There are some more areas that have ToolTips in v2.0 already.

Steve

[nachinus]

Mi piece of feedback:

I'd like something that would tell me at a glance which units on the map are out or almost out of ammo for their main weapon(s). In long battles, having to cicle through all units constantly monitoring their ammo status is a real micromanaging pain.

[Baneman]

Speaking personally, the UI is good, only the "Passenger/Floor/Buttoned" info is lacking.

Vinnart, your proposals are great, but for me, if BF could give us the above mentioned, the rest could wait.

This is brought home to me particularly as I'm currently playing a very urban fight, but my opponent is fairly slow in turnaround, hence I find it very difficult to remember which floor my guys are on - and the houses are very close together, so dropping the camera to see them is extremely finicky.

[Vinnart]

Yeah, but what you don't understand is that both of these have been on the drawing board since 2006 or so v2.0 already.

Steve

Well, you see great minds think a like . Trust me I know my limitations in understanding the technical aspects, and in no means want to come across with intent of micromanaging the design. As I said it is just my way of communicating what I’d like in a general way with visual feedback. vs. just trying to explain it with words alone. Thanks for all yours, and the Battlefront team’s hard work in making the best war game I have played to date. I look forward to trying 2.0, and hope my feedback useful in expressing desires for future improvements. Best of luck to you, and the BF team.

[Barleyman]

The best way to help us design better games is to tell us what information you want to see and not try to design the game yourselves. It's not a good use of time or energy. I say that because in the last 12 years I can't count how many feature requests from you guys that we've implemented.

C2 lines would be kinda nice. Click on unit and you see what it's connected, or is supposed to be connected to.

[JonS]

barleyman,

That's a solution. What problem are you trying to resolve?

[John Kettler]

Not a question I often ask, since the only time my squads aren't split is during setup, or if I muff a move order and they accidentally recombine (which I undo ASAP, and for the period of that combination, they're all in the same AS. Still a good point though. Most of the time, it's the AS under the cursor that I'd like to know about.

womble,

I'd like to see some work done on squad movement in terrain where the cover in it is smaller than the AS. Have had some very bad things happen when a planned gully move turned into a wholly unexpected exposure of much of a squad on the exposed high back lip of a gully, not in it! The squad was rendered combat ineffective in seconds. Had the Tac AI done the rational thing, the squad would've moved, single file, to the new location--while staying in the gully at the bottom. Instead, to my horror, I found 2/3 of the squad abandoning cover and moving--very briefly until shot to ribbons--in full view of the computer's forces!

Regards,

John Kettler

[womble]

womble,

I'd like to see some work done on squad movement in terrain where the cover in it is smaller than the AS. Have had some very bad things happen when a planned gully move turned into a wholly unexpected exposure of much of a squad on the exposed high back lip of a gully, not in it! The squad was rendered combat ineffective in seconds. Had the Tac AI done the rational thing, the squad would've moved, single file, to the new location--while staying in the gully at the bottom. Instead, to my horror, I found 2/3 of the squad abandoning cover and moving--very briefly until shot to ribbons--in full view of the computer's forces!

Your example sounds to me like one of the reasons I always split my squads into teams.

If you are trying to move through any terrain, the pathing algorithm seems to prioritise speed over cover. If, for example, you want your pTruppen to march along the bank of a stream that's in a gully, you have to pretty much plot every waypoint, even with split teams, or they'll take the easy route that's not in the soggy mess around the stream. Which means they'll get out into the FoF rather than staying in the dead ground. If the pathing algorithm does that for split teams, there's a lot of work to be done to get it handling an entire squad any better. It'd be good though.

What I'd like to see is some indication as to when an element's morale has gone "Brittle". In large battles, or those spread over a long period of time (like PBEMs, or if you only get to play a bit at a time), it is difficult to remember which elements have been Shaken (or whatever level it is that they go "brittle" at), and having some visual indication of that would be very useful.

[Steiner14]

barleyman,

That's a solution. What problem are you trying to resolve?

Problem is to keep units in C2 without wasting C2 distance. With the good old C2-lines in CMx1 it was very convenient to keep units spread close to their maximum distance with much less clicking.

[Baneman]

I admit it would be nice sometimes, perhaps even with lines changing colour eg. voice to eye to distant.

It would also be real handy when setting up.

But it's probably a lot of work for minimal gain.

[Barleyman]

Problem is to keep units in C2 without wasting C2 distance. With the good old C2-lines in CMx1 it was very convenient to keep units spread close to their maximum distance with much less clicking.

If you (BFC) don't like lines on-screen, it could be implemented using the floating icon(s). Click on unit and the unit and HQ light up. Throw in color coding or whatnot to show how and if they're in contact.

[Barleyman]

barleyman,

That's a solution. What problem are you trying to resolve?

They asked what info we'd like to see in game.

[Vinnart]

Steve, no need to add the text to the portraits I already have it showing up in the game. Now I just need the portraits to swap out to the one without the text when the condition doesn’t apply so my tank commander portrait doesn’t say, “Open” all the time. Till then I guess I’ll just have “Vin’s imagined portrait text mod” to hold me over till 3.0.