Nidan1 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 seriously this is ridiculous: some time ago taki opened a thread about problems with subsystems damage. me and some other users posted multiple tests, sources etc. with save games to show that something is wrong. the thread gained over 3000 views and 109 posts and no one of the designers showed up (I`ve even posted some direct questions for the designers) heres the link to the thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=100486 this thread is nothing but a rant that there are no updates until now and on the first page someone from the design crew posts a comment... this is really not fair ! just wanted to show my disappointment ! So what can those of us who still want to post here do to alleviate your feelings that this thread is somehow unfair? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 seriously this is ridiculous: some time ago taki opened a thread about problems with subsystems damage. me and some other users posted multiple tests, sources etc. with save games to show that something is wrong. the thread gained over 3000 views and 109 posts and no one of the designers showed up (I`ve even posted some direct questions for the designers) heres the link to the thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=100486 this thread is nothing but a rant that there are no updates until now and on the first page someone from the design crew posts a comment... this is really not fair ! just wanted to show my disappointment ! Err... yes, we don't catch everything. Getting upset about it (or disappointed) is counterproductive, though. As I said a few pages ago, if you've got a serious problem and you think it deserves a dev response and hasn't gotten one, PM or email me. I'll take a look. We all have jobs to do, and reading through the forums is something I do when I'm not writing code, not the other way around. Make it easy for us. This forum can get very busy, and so can we. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Right on Phil.. keep plugging away, and we will keep Blasting away until you all come out with the next edition... although we would all love to see something for Christmas.. its all good nevertheless. Keep up the great work..... although if want of the busy worker elves there has any info on whats around the corner.. that would be nice to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_Vincent Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 edit: nevermind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 All you have to do is look at what happened with CMSF. You will get your answer. The answer is you have nothing to worry about. So please stop the dissent and whinging. I'm sure some people make it their lifes work to harrass and whinge to developers on forums and have tantrums about how terrible the deevlopers are becuase thyey haven't fixed a bug or posted on the forum etc etc. Blimey someone put their point No 5 of what needs to be fixed as "I'm sure there are other things" Another simple answer. Get a life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 For me the sense of "not fair" is "why would the designers come into this thread that has a blatantly whinging title instead of coming into a long and productive thread where there is plenty of data and productive conversation?". It's not really about "fairness", since that assumes an entitlement, which doesn't exist. It's about "usefulness". Phil said: Under normal circumstances I tend to read the threads that appear to be about / contain bug reports or developer requests, and of course anything about the Mac version, as pretty much everything about it falls into my purview. Beyond that if it seems something warrants a response, I'll read it. I may or may not respond, depending on how much good I think I'll be able to do. This ought to be perfect. I think that where it's falling down is that in practice BFC staff are more "drawn to" threads with whinging titles and arguments about whether they are doing the right thing by their customers and all that blah blah. There is a perfectly natural instinct to defend the company etc. But this burns the precious little time that they have in forum on useless old arguments. It also encourages people to post in this way. Personally, I don't think a BFC person should post again in this thread. It's "one of those". As I said, the only reason I'm posting in it is because of the opportunity to highlight this somewhat unfortunate dynamic that goes on. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 All you have to do is look at what happened with CMSF. You will get your answer. The answer is you have nothing to worry about. So please stop the dissent and whinging. I'm sure some people make it their lifes work to harrass and whinge to developers on forums and have tantrums about how terrible the deevlopers are becuase thyey haven't fixed a bug or posted on the forum etc etc. Blimey someone put their point No 5 of what needs to be fixed as "I'm sure there are other things" Another simple answer. Get a life. If we had lives we wouldn't be playing this dopey game, or dealing with cretins on this and other forums, now would we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 For me the sense of "not fair" is "why would the designers come into this thread that has a blatantly whinging title instead of coming into a long and productive thread where there is plenty of data and productive conversation?". It's not really about "fairness", since that assumes an entitlement, which doesn't exist. It's about "usefulness". Phil said: This ought to be perfect. I think that where it's falling down is that in practice BFC staff are more "drawn to" threads with whinging titles and arguments about whether they are doing the right thing by their customers and all that blah blah. There is a perfectly natural instinct to defend the company etc. But this burns the precious little time that they have in forum on useless old arguments. It also encourages people to post in this way. Personally, I don't think a BFC person should post again in this thread. It's "one of those". As I said, the only reason I'm posting in it is because of the opportunity to highlight this somewhat unfortunate dynamic that goes on. GaJ And you received your credentials in human psychology and behavior from where? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javaslinger Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hello, Original poster of this thread here... My oh my do I know how to start a firestorm... Ok, look real simple.. We're gamers... no lives so to speak... We're also customers, so yes, we do in today's retail climate have a certain sense of entitlement... Now, I'm not asking for the world here... I frequent many forums and the trend today is an increasing level of interaction with the developer. Frankly, I've always found Battlefront to be quite behind the curve in this regard and even a bit prickly. Again, fine... But please, a snippet of an update each week would go a VERY LONG WAY... And don't give me some crap about being too busy to take 10 minutes to soothe the masses with some tiny update, progress report, story of the woes of development, etc... If you love your work, it's really not hard to brag about it a little bit and we'd LOVE it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Well said, if we didn't give a crap we wouldnt post at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 seriously this is ridiculous: some time ago taki opened a thread about problems with subsystems damage. me and some other users posted multiple tests, sources etc. with save games to show that something is wrong. the thread gained over 3000 views and 109 posts and no one of the designers showed up (I`ve even posted some direct questions for the designers) heres the link to the thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=100486 this thread is nothing but a rant that there are no updates until now and on the first page someone from the design crew posts a comment... this is really not fair ! just wanted to show my disappointment ! Sorry siffo, but I can't help but chuckle. Not laughing at you just understanding your frustration. I do recall the thread. I wouldn't take it too personally though, some of this is just luck and timing as to when anybody apparently had a chance to come up and breathe. I would however follow phil's suggestion and send a note PM. And if you don't get a response there is always the Shawshank Redemption mode...a PM every week for 6 years till they send you a reply just to shut you up. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 And you received your credentials in human psychology and behavior from where? I see you have taken ad hominem 101, and achieved a modest pass. While questioning my credentials to comment on the topic, you haven't indicated your opinion. Are you disagreeing with the point I was making? Do you think that it is good that BFC spend their precious time in these kind of threads? Or are you simply saying that since I don't have a degree on psychology, I am not entitiled to share my opinion about the dynamics in the forum? Or were you genuinely curious about where I earned my credentials, since I demonstrated such a masterful handling of the topic? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 GaJ, I understand what you're saying. But "usefulness" is in the eye of the beholder. And sometimes "those threads" are precisely the ones where we can do some good. If with a couple of posts we can get a nastily derailed thread onto actual problems, fantastic. "Those threads" are also very likely to be the most active, and we're much more likely to look into active threads. If this thread hadn't been at the top of the page I wouldn't have come in. You may not agree with my choices, of course. Obviously I thought (and do think) there's something in this thread worth speaking to. Some kind of regular dev update would be, as I noted, good for all involved. An active thread asking for something like that is something I'd like to encourage. If the thread was just Javaslinger shouting at us about being unresponsive I wouldn't still be posting in it. Javaslinger, I can see that you haven't read my posts thus far. I can tell you that categorizing any responses about lack of time as "some crap" is not furthering your cause. We *are* busy. I put in quite a lot of time, at all hours, every day, working on CM. And a blog would take much longer than ten minutes per day, especially if we were discussing bits about the game. Happily, as it happens, we're in agreement about the need for something like that, so aggression is unnecessary. Just ask nicely. With regards to fairness: most of my limited forum attention is going to go to bug reports and Mac threads anyway under normal circumstances. At the risk of repeating myself, if something is extremely important to you, whatever it is, PM or email me. I will give your problem as much attention as I can spare. I guarantee you a bit of my time if you put in the effort to contact me. I'd say that's pretty fair. I can't read every thread, I don't respond to most of them, but I *do* read every PM and email I get. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 GaJ I wouldn't call my post referring to your post as necessarily "ad hominem". I was genuinely curious as to how you know how all the pyschology of forums and the like works. Actually I failed 101, I was never a good debater. Secondly, my interest in this particular thread was based on my ignorance as to how the software people deal with supposed bugs in the programs of the game. Especially those that are reported by the users, and not anyone internal to the creator of the game. I think because posts that were speaking negatively about motives and lifestyles of posters seemed to have caused the folks who were addressing my questions to run for the hills. I could be wrong about that but I have no way to be sure. I really have no opinion one way or the other as to why people behave the way they do in forums. I suppose human nature and self-interest play large roles. I do tend to believe that the BFC folks and those working directly with them do tend to take things personal at times and in that sense may be drawn more to threads with ranting titles. So I guess I do agree with you. The problem now is that I never got an answert to my last question. That is where my self interest comes into play because I have experienced this problem a lot, and so have others, and it is difficult to duplicate and trap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'm not understanding, I'm talking about something in the code, something that controls an action that the game routinely takes. Not necessarily a visual item. Lets, for example, take the problem with PBEM files intermittantly not being found in the outgoing mail folder, requiring a turn replay. If that is not fixed by the release of the next module it could also appear when playing scenarios from that module? The modules are basically content expansion packs so there is not any inherent change to the game or any of its bugs simply by making a module. What tends to happen though is a patch is released simultaneously with the content module. This process is a separate development stream and you don't even have to buy the module to get a patch to the base game. Making a beta build with installer, copy protection and actually distributing the thing is a non trivial process so I guess there are advantages to doing it all together. What you really want to watch out for is NEW bugs that go into a new patch . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Regarding the psychology of this: Personally, if I find a poster irrational or irritating, I ignore him. I have better things to do with my time. I will, frequently, come back to a thread I've jpreviously left without comment, to re-read the OP and subsequent posts to see if I could be mistaken in my initial impression. If I can imagine a non-native English speaker, with cultural differences, being misinterpreted by the written word, perhaps using sarcasm as a device, who is angry at a game they LIKE and just let that emotion through, I will bend over backwards to assist them. Sometimes, though, they're just cretins. My time is my time. I will give up a lot of it to help someone who wants assistance. I will ignore the rude and selfish. Thus endeth my psych 101 lecture for the day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 GaJ, I understand what you're saying. But "usefulness" is in the eye of the beholder. Totally - I agree. And ultimately of course you choose the ones that you see as most useful, of course. And far be it for me to assess what "useful" is for you - I have no illusions of thinking I can judge what the goals of BFC are in participating in the forum. My contribution, purely FWIW, YMMV etc etc, is that there is something of a pattern of BFC responding more to "these threads" than "calm rational ones" and it's my uneducated guess that this contributes in a positive reinforcement way to "these threads" becoming prevalent. I know for a fact that this happened to me: I can look at my own behaviour in the forum and see a definitely link between behaving sarcastically and getting a response. Only when someone said to me "why are you being so obnoxious" did I take a hard look at this. So FWIW it's something I've given some thought to. That's all GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 That's a fair point. I'll give it some thought. It's certainly thorny; BFC's responses are only a part of the positive reinforcement. On the other hand, I feel like I've participated in a couple of unexpected and worthwhile discussions by responding to this thread alone, in addition to reaching something like a conclusion with the thread starter (I hope). So. Hmm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Hmmm yeah :) Life's like that eh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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