Dissapointed by CMBN

[WineCape]

I have a lot of respect for them (i love CMx1) but didn't suppose that they will concentrate on details (interiors of tanks, falling helmets after hit etc.) and just forget about the most important things like realism and gameplay.

Actually, we all wanted clown cars in CMBN, but we got voted out by the programmers. And I personally wanted cowbell, but Steve was dead set against that folly.

[John Malcolm]

These are valid points. The way they were put forward was dreadful. Battlefront have always had a good record in patching and continuing to develop games long after release (as well as listening and reacting to constructive crits). I suspect this is simply a case of not using the search function.

[dieseltaylor]

My little mrs constantly complains of partial rear penetration. Should I have her patched too?

: )

Sounds more like a complaint of the inadequacy of the round!

[dieseltaylor]

hoolaman

If the players could provide a decent bug report instead of "this game is sh1t" things would be a lot more likely to get fixed.

Is there a formal process to add bugs to a list? It would be very helpful if there were one - or am I missing it and it does exist already.

[WineCape]

These are valid points. The way they were put forward was dreadful. Battlefront have always had a good record in patching and continuing to develop games long after release (as well as listening and reacting to constructive crits). I suspect this is simply a case of not using the search function.

Not really John. Sometimes, against our better judgement -- and Mom's warning not to -- we still want to tease feed the troll through the cage railings so as to be entertained.

[Nidan1]

Not really John. Sometimes, against our better judgement -- and Mom's warning not to -- we still want to tease feed the troll through the cage railings so as to be entertained.

What do trolls eat anyway?

[Boche]

Hopes and Dreams

[WineCape]

What do trolls eat anyway?

Mom says fingers.

[Sitting Duck]

My little mrs constantly complains of partial rear penetration...

I guess spalling would result in similar complaints.

[ketonur]

I suspect "Ketonur" is what I believe is called a troll (look at the things he complains about and the points he does not mention). Feeding trolls is never a good idea.

Sure, sure. I think that if i'm not content from the quality of product that i've bought i have right to say about this.

Didn't know that this forum consist from fanboys mostly...

Everyone is waiting for the patch like for the miracle but i haven't seen any bug-reporting tool anywhere.

[dieseltaylor]

By your definition it appears any in-game issue not working as either intended, or forseen, implies flawed. Ahem, so by what normal/desirable process do you then suggest should BFC go about ironing out the issues that you regard as being flawed? Test another 240 months to cut out "all flaws" for it to be a normal/desirable process? Or the fact it's "desirable" for Charles to drink while programming, and thus not a normal reason for BFC to release such a flawed product on the market?

"all flaws" I am not at all sure where you think that is a quote from. I certainly never used it so I think it a tad naughty to use it as though I had.

That a computer game is flawed to some degree seems to be the expected norm. I don't get too excited about that. However the firing on the move and superb target acquisition seems a monumental error. It is a shock.

I feel there is a certain defensiveness amongst the BF beta-testers and possibly they are in the invidious position of knowing there were unresolved issues identified pre-launch which were not fixed.

What is aggravating is that we the punters know in some arcane way that some things are being attended to now, some will be later , and some much later. However as far as I know there is no quick list where I can see what has already been discovered or I have found a new bug.

There appears to be no formal mechanism for sending something up either.

Lets take an example:

I have now written twice that driving tanks along the line of a wire fence does not knock it flat. This appears to be wrong.

So what has happened beta-tester WC tells me my driver is drunk. I cannot recall if anything happened the first time I mentioned it.

I have thought about problem handling, possibly as it was once a job of mine, and a preferable method for a valid complaint might be:

An e-mail to for example me saying. It has not come up before. Can you please send the film/file. It is not a high prioity but thank you for raising it.

And then posting it on a list where we can all see it has been raised. Whether it is a spreadsheet or a wiki it does not matter provided it is easy to reference. Its all very well to have hundreds testing the game but no-one wishes to find there time wasted reporting something mentioned a month ago.

And given the general goodwill of the community if there was a complaint which needed testing I would have thought constructing a test and asking for volunteers to run it might provide some of us a chance to be helpful.

Other than that we sit in the dark waiting for v 1.01

Of course most of us are aware that BF is a small organisation but I don't see that need stop them from thinking about how they deal with consumers who, in the vast majority, are for them and want the game to succeed.

[evo6tme]

I am quite enjoying having a computer stabilized main gun on my sherman . I will miss it when its gone.

[WineCape]

Diesel,

The "all flaws" were quote-marked not because I alluded you said it, but simply to show there are no game designed that does not have ANY flaws, by definition. Some are issues, some are serious issues. Some less so. Some single issue is enough to ruin the game for some.

This does not mean in any way that there are nothing wrong with the game, or that, despite the highlighted issues by some here on the forum, we are coloured in as "fanboys" just because some take exception -- by way of humour -- to the way the complaint/message was delivered (alluding to foul language).

As fair as I recall, we are all adults here, and we should behave like adults in delivering our issues/messages. Alluding to foul language in your posts in delivering that issue is disrespectful, no matter how valid your issue, perceived or real.

I have now written twice that driving tanks along the line of a wire fence does not knock it flat. This appears to be wrong. So what has happened beta-tester W[ine]C[ape] tells me my driver is drunk. I cannot recall if anything happened the first time I mentioned it.

I speak for myself, but I do read the forum and carry issues over to the Beta forums as posted here, and judging by my specific Beta forum I visit/have access to, certainly other testers do the same. If we don't aknowledge your post(s), it may well be for several different reasons, or simply we have missed it. But we cannot aknowledge each and every post and all issues, as you stated, the small BFC core team are just that, small. And they are already overloaded with various tasks. There are, admittedly, numerous posts highlighting certain issues under a general/specific opening thread, and we do read them. And in this way forum members do help as a starting point for some issue.

Rest assured, despite my drunk TC-driving-over-the-wire comment, I will test the issue at hand and will carry it, if need be, over to BFC who will slot it as high/low priority as they see fit.

Regards.

[Tarquelne]

It's not at all unrealistic to expect a bug free game.

I buy bug-free games - major titles - all the time.

Often for $15 or less.

Generally at least a year after they come out.

Sometimes it takes a lot longer, for either the price drop or the patches.

[hoolaman]

hoolaman

Is there a formal process to add bugs to a list? It would be very helpful if there were one - or am I missing it and it does exist already.

No not that I know of, posting to the forum or PM a beta tester is the way to go.

I can share with you what I mean by a good bug report though. In almost every case a save game is the best way to outline what you are talking about. Posting screenshots is fine and allows a clear explanation of the problem, but doesn't give Charles anything to go on as I figure he has ability to debug save games to see what the code is doing.

Ideally the problem should be reproducible. Reproducible means you can build a test situation where there are clear steps to trigger the problem, OR a save game right before the even happens, during WEGO orders phase or Real Time.

As for establishing that the data or parameters in the game are wrong, that is a bit of a harder sell. A well designed and explained test scenario is the way to go. The more iterations the more convincing it will be and will eliminate the possibility you are seeing outlier results.

[ketonur]

I was thinking that it will be thread on this forum like "we are working to improve..." with list of issues. But nope, nothing.

Sometimes one of developers writes sth about graphic or start standard speach "it's battlefield, treat soldiers as they are real" etc.

So it only strenghten my feeling of iritation.

So soldiers during II WW had to be very brave to shoot to those steel bastards from their rifles and pistols...

Maybe developers fell asleep during "Saving private Ryan" and dont know that Tiger wasn't destroyed by Tom Hanks from pistol but that was a diving bomber at the background

Arcade game "world of tanks" is better simulation than "simulation of battlefield CMBN" because even there tanks have got worse accuracy if in move. So where is this "physics for every bullet"? Ehhhh

Ok, i don't mind if they sell game with minor bugs and issues. But when i see an interior of tank and very nice graphics and experience such strange behaviour of soldiers and tanks, that makes this game unplayable for me i start thinking that sth. is wrong with process of beta-testing or perception of battlefield by devs.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

The firing on the move thing is a shocker that runs against the grain of what this series is about. That it is not a bug as such is most alarming. It has to change.

You can bandy about the "you must read up on relevant threads XYZ" (no he must not) or "I don't like the tone" but it does nothing to mitigate what I think is a legitimate concern.

[WineCape]

Ketonur,

Some of your issues you mention are valid (and already posted/mentioned as remarked by some helpful posters here in this thread), and are already fixed in the Release Candidate v1.01 that I have in my possession (e.g. tree issue and the infantry firing at unbuttoned enemy TC's from too far a distance to have a realistic chance of killing/damaging something, to name but a few of the 70+ changes/issues -- and counting -- already fixed by the 2 programmers).

Some issues are still being worked on, and some will stay "strange behaviour" issues for various reasons, either because they are statistical outliers in the game, or they are not fixable, or that it will be too difficult to fix without unbalancing other in-game mechanics, or too low in priority given other more serious issues at hand etc etc.

[Magpie_Oz]

You don't do a real lot for your cred by suggesting Saving Private Ryan as a reference work.

Firing on the move is difficult not impossible, the WoT that you mention, again damaging your cred, I can consistently engage and hit enemy tanks that are moving while I am at full speed. WW2 tanks preferred to halt, they didn't have to. An accomplished gunner could well have hit another tank from on the move, the Sherman particularly so as it did have a gyrostabiliser and an accurate and fast turret.

There are bugs in the game for sure but the amount of work that has gone into CMBN and the aptitude of he development team and quality of their earlier works fill me with confidence that CM:BN is a highly accurate simulation (not game) of the genre.

Get used to the game not doing things the way YOU want it to do them, sims aren't like that. Games are slaves to their market, sims are slave to reality. Which is why in WoT if your track gets shot off you can click "repair" and it is all fixed, in CM:BN, you are dead.

[Apocalypse 31]

I'm not disappointed with CMBN, but I have a few gripes (that have probably already been voiced by many players)

CMX2 Engine

I'm not asking for CMBN to be Company of Heroes, but I just feel like the game engine isn't optimized for performance. CMX2 is not a very smooth gaming experience.

I was hoping for more development with the engine for this release, especially compared to other games out there. Better physics and effects. Maybe better development for terrain and trees/shrubs..speedtree?? The CMX2 engine feels stiff.

Story Line for Campaigns

My second gripe hasn't changed since CMSF: There's really not much depth or story line that goes with each campaign or mission, scenario.

I'm not asking for Company of Heroes cut scenes in between each mission, but how about some animated mission briefings? In CMSF it was much worse, because we were going off of a fictional war; I never really understand the operational or strategic portion of the campaign.

With CMBN we already have a script: Reality! Why not do what Close Combat did, and toss in some historical video footage between missions to spice things up.

Bottom Line: Campaigns still have no feeling to them

Force Pool

Close Combat gave players a force pool. A group of Soldiers that they could call their own. It gave players ownership and a sense of command. It also allowed players to develop their Soldiers through combat and experience. By the end of a campaign you could have a group of killer Soldiers, with lots of experience from battle.

I was really hoping that CMBN would have some of that. Instead, I go through the campaigns and receive random reinforcements. I'm not sure if this is equipment that was with me from last mission? Did they gain any experience. Their leadership still shows +1 or -1..no change. Kind of a let down.

[sburke]

Sure, sure. I think that if i'm not content from the quality of product that i've bought i have right to say about this.

Didn't know that this forum consist from fanboys mostly...

Everyone is waiting for the patch like for the miracle but i haven't seen any bug-reporting tool anywhere.

I was thinking to post a lengthier reply and realized this thread isn't worth it. It contributes nothing other than to provide a platform for folks to continue to rant because they are not part of the development team and feel somehow they have a right to know exactly what BFC is working on, the resources they are applying, their financial statement, their sex life, preference in beers blah blah blah.

Get over it folks, not everything you raise is going to get an immediate answer. Maybe your pet item won't get fixed (assuming it needs a fix) in V1.01. Maybe you will have to wait for v1.02 or v1.03. Maybe you will have to keep reminding them cause they are a bit busy. To suggest though that BFC is somehow just taking an extended nap or something is just ridiculous. To those too dense to get it, the reporting tool is right here. BFC and the testers are very active participants on this forum and though they can't necessarily tell us everything they are working on certain items have been discussed and there is obviously progress in culling through priority issues and fixes.

And yes I am a fanboy, this game absolutley rocks. Smudges dents and all. I am emininetly satisfied that I got far more than my money's worth. My glass is 90% full.. of Louis XIII cognac. To each his own.

[Guest]

I was thinking that it will be thread on this forum like "we are working to improve..." with list of issues. But nope, nothing.

ketonur, hello.

A list like this would be extremely long, would change constantly, and would not reflect even a percentage of the reality of what was being worked on. If a bug has been reported on these forums, chances are better than excellent it has been raised elsewhere. Simple as that.

On top of that, some bugs turn out to be a dozen sub-bugs, or the real bug is hidden in there somewhere. It's not a 1:1 relationship at all. Maintaining that list would be very difficult and time-consuming, and for a company as small as BFC it's unlikely that making it actually useful would be very... useful. When the patch comes you'll get a list of what was fixed. For the moment, just take it as a given that we're looking into the reported problems. We may not always agree with them, we may not comment on them (I try to comment where I can), but we do look at them.

Sometimes one of developers writes sth about graphic or start standard speach "it's battlefield, treat soldiers as they are real" etc.

So it only strenghten my feeling of iritation.

Why?

So soldiers during II WW had to be very brave to shoot to those steel bastards from their rifles and pistols...

Maybe developers fell asleep during "Saving private Ryan" and dont know that Tiger wasn't destroyed by Tom Hanks from pistol but that was a diving bomber at the background

Arcade game "world of tanks" is better simulation than "simulation of battlefield CMBN" because even there tanks have got worse accuracy if in move. So where is this "physics for every bullet"? Ehhhh

This is a bug, which we're looking at.

You know, I was willing to write off your earlier apparent belligerence as a language barrier thing, but you're pushing the envelope of my credulity. All these quotes and smilies aren't doing a great job of hiding your sarcasm. I know you're not a troll, but you're doing a great job of talking like one.

Ok, i don't mind if they sell game with minor bugs and issues. But when i see an interior of tank and very nice graphics and experience such strange behaviour of soldiers and tanks, that makes this game unplayable for me i start thinking that sth. is wrong with process of beta-testing or perception of battlefield by devs.

The interior of the tanks, the nice graphics, they're the products of our artists. The engine is handled by developers - myself and Charles. They're entirely different working paths, and handled by entirely different people. Yes, the graphics are pretty, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean we spend any less time on the engine.

The "unplayable" thing... is that hyperbole? Or can you literally not play the game due to the issues?

[ketonur]

I wasnt serious when i was comparing situation from CMBN to "Saving private Ryan", the same with WoT. I was just trying to make some contrast.

Did you know that american crews usually turn off this gyrostabiliser because the barrel shake for longer time after stopping? Try to consider why did they do it.

And nice test will be to drive a jeep on the grass with 30km/h and try to hit anything from pistol that is 20m from you. Wish you luck

In CMBN conditions you should hit everything in 200m range propably.

Here are some data about accuracy of WWII guns:

F34 range 1000m accuracy 50%

s-53 range 1500m accuracy 63%

KwK 42\L70 range 1500 accuracy 100%

(havent got any data about M3 and M3A1)

Offcourse from still position and in fabric conditions. Now add battlefield stress and then try to imagine that you are driving with 10km/h speed on the grass terrain. Well in CMBN it dosent matter - You will hit from 1000m by first shoot.

[Guest]

The firing on the move thing is a shocker that runs against the grain of what this series is about. That it is not a bug as such is most alarming. It has to change.

You can bandy about the "you must read up on relevant threads XYZ" (no he must not) or "I don't like the tone" but it does nothing to mitigate what I think is a legitimate concern.

No, it doesn't mitigate it, and yes it's a legitimate concern. It's being looked at.

[Boche]

Dont know about you guys, but ive really become attached to 3rd Batallion 8th Infantry...especially Easy Coy...jejeje. Aswell as the M8 HMCs.