Mord Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I was just messing around in the editor and discovered some really cool water ideas some of you guys may not be aware of, so I put together a few quick pics and some tips to get your map making juices flowing. One of the things I always longed for in Cmx1 was a shallow creek type tile. Water tiles were always huge and just looked too wide to make a convincing stream/creek. Well happily, no longer. We can now design realistic looking creek beds in a forested or or non forested setting. Here are some pics of the water sizes in CMBN. The first shows you the widths and the second a scale comparison with some units within the game. As you can see the deep and shallow ford tiles get progressively skinnier, leaving designers much more leeway in creating cool, natural looking environments. Here's a couple pics of a very quick example I put together in the editor using the shallow ford tile as a creek; Now check out what a minute of design did for creating realistic looking marsh using the shallow ford tile; Looks cool, huh? Again these were just minor examples thrown together in a few minutes without any planning or real thought behind them...With some time, thinking and effort the water features in game are gonna be the best we've ever seen! For those who didn't know about this, I hope it sparks your creativity and I hope you guys are excited as I am! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Nice one Mord - I've not played about with the shallow ford to that extent - like the look 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Thanks, George. I am constantly being surprised at how powerful the CMX2 editor can be...it's almost a world away from CMSF and they are within the same engine! BFC really dotted their I's and crossed their T's with this version. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Thanks a bunch. Updating my marsh now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Looks fantastic using the shallow ford. But one question: It was my understanding that water can only exist at one elevation (the lowest one on your map). Is that correct? So if your lowest elevation point is 10m and you try to draw a stream that flows down toward it from the opposite edge (65 m), you'd end up with a Grand Canyon at the opposite edge because the editor would put all the water at 10m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyseman76 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Nice info I have yet to dig into the editor. As for water my only complaint to BF is the uniform glare when your looking at the water from some angles. It tends to look solid white and not like water. Great finds Mord. Wyseman76 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Looks fantastic using the shallow ford. But one question: It was my understanding that water can only exist at one elevation (the lowest one on your map). Is that correct? So if your lowest elevation point is 10m and you try to draw a stream that flows down toward it from the opposite edge (65 m), you'd end up with a Grand Canyon at the opposite edge because the editor would put all the water at 10m. Thanks for bringing that up! You can change the width of the creek/stream by screwing with elevations (it becomes a trickle back at the beginning. Check this out. To answer your question...I am not really sure but probably. Mord. P.S. You are welcome Sgt Shultz. Thanks, Wyseman. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Looks fantastic using the shallow ford. But one question: It was my understanding that water can only exist at one elevation (the lowest one on your map). Is that correct? So if your lowest elevation point is 10m and you try to draw a stream that flows down toward it from the opposite edge (65 m), you'd end up with a Grand Canyon at the opposite edge because the editor would put all the water at 10m. You are right. Here some examples of a map where the river starts at approx 120m and runs down to 100m. and the alternative with Marsh tiles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Rest of the pictures 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Yes, I noticed this "single water table " too, although on balance it seems like it solves more problems than it creates. There's a weir/spillway on the Vire by La Meauffe (which was a heavily fortified position) with a couple of sturdy old watermills either side. I am currently playing with ways to depict this in the game. Also, for those interested, here's a shot of the Vire river in summer (in June '44 there would have been a lot more water in the stream. Note the fairly steep rocky banks and streambed (as opposed to marshy or muddy). A natural antitank ditch, even with no water. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I don't know the solution to that Vire River problem, but for brooks and streams, it looks like marsh tiles are a good way to go. And due to the color contrast, it looks a lot like a streambed anyway. Enough, at least, to be a visible clue to low/boggy ground while in game, and to help visualize the topography better on a map without resorting to gridded terrain (horrors!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hi Mord, thanks for pointing this out. I hadn't yet tried the fords when making my La Fiere Causeway map, so I've been using marsh and water tiles, which did look good, but I 'll have to mess around with this too. mj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 LLF, I think you'll find a solution you are known for you ingenuity...You did some great stuff in CMSF. @MJ...no problem brother, good luck. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Speaking of water, can anyone help me with this picture? http://www.battlefront.com/images/stories/CMBN/Gall3/md_screenshot11_1200.jpg Firstly, I think this town river looks really great and I´d like to play the scenario but haven´t been able to find it. Does anyone here know where I can find it? Secondly, the banks of river seems to be a "vertical wall" rather than the sloping banks I am able to produce myself in the editor. How do I make these "canal-like" banks on a river? Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I´ve tinkered some with water tiles (in demo) as well and found results quite satisfactory. Some feature I´d like to see (in case I´ve overlooked) would be different riverbed variations like sandy, grassy ect. as I found the standard rocky/gravel streambed tiles ofently not looking to what I need. Particularly when combined with (neighboring) marsh, they don´t quite fit together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 umlaut, that vertical appears to be a high stone wall. I haven't really paid attention to the look/textures of high walls yet--I'm going to check it out, because I always liked that scene from the early screenshots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 From my meager testing it seems that Ninja Grass™ and "D" trees do a fair job of swamp making. No need for forest tiles, just put the trees on the XT Grass at corners. The number of trees per tile appears to regulate how much of the swamp is constricted. One tree sits in the water. Two trees constricts. Three trees can close it off completely. --- 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Very nice looking, man! Really cool. I LOVE this game! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 There is no doubt that the pallette in the CMBN editor can be used to create some amazing maps. But .... ... for brooks and streams, it looks like marsh tiles are a good way to go. And due to the color contrast, it looks a lot like a streambed anyway ... ... be careful you don't let aesthetics trump function. Marsh cannot be crossed by vehicles, so by using marsh 'upstream' and shallow ford 'downstream' you could end up with the un-intuitive result of vehicles being able to drive across the larger creek lower down the hill, but not across what is supposed to be a little trickle higher up the hill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Jon makes a very good point. Marsh is for when you want to deny vehicle movement in a low-lying area. It just happens to look cool too. VT Grass does the job in a much safer manner imho, and extends its effect farther into adjacent tiles. Pictures are worth ... you get it ... ---------------- Here is my Mord-modified( )test swamp with no trees showing... ------------- Here is just the trunks, to show how the trees at the corners crowd the water. ------------ How the sausage is made... the arrow denotes the final dogleg into a tree standing in water, but that is done elsewhere in view. ----------- ...and how I went 'Old Skool' on my elevations to force the water to do my bidding. It was a case of having stronger memories of the CM1 editor than this new-fangled contraption we got us here. Want a tile to stay? Put it there and lock each and every one down. EDIT --- The twin trees on the black 7 tile were three trees. Three blocked the channel completely. Placing the trees at corner tiles in varying numbers allows a great amount of granularity. -------- There are further tweaks I can envision trying, but it is a corner feature on my current scenario. My Meatgrinder remake will definitely have a substantial swamp. - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Speaking of water, can anyone help me with this picture? http://www.battlefront.com/images/stories/CMBN/Gall3/md_screenshot11_1200.jpg Firstly, I think this town river looks really great and I´d like to play the scenario but haven´t been able to find it. Does anyone here know where I can find it? Secondly, the banks of river seems to be a "vertical wall" rather than the sloping banks I am able to produce myself in the editor. How do I make these "canal-like" banks on a river? Cheers It's just a pavement covered slope leading down to the water. Bear in mind this was from an early beta and some tweaks were made to the way water banks are shaped so you may not be able to reproduce this exact thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Arg, this swamp is sucking me in. (groan) Stripping the swamp(water and banks) down to short grass and adding brush everywhere, then rebuilding has some small effect in certain places to improve swampiness. Bushes are the final touch! Load every water tile up with all the bushes you want. Some will spawn... some won't. Some will change the banks slightly. The angle of placement, therefore the type of bush, is important. If you select the pair of bushes that runs aong the waterway(or single bush), the bushes will be in the middle of the water. If you select the pair that goes across the waterway grain, they will line the banks. If you select the trios ... well you get something like this .... Looks impassable to me.... how 'bout you Sarge? ------------------- Get your butt in gear Private... move 'em out! ----------------------- Imagine heavy fog and gathering darkness. Would you want to be there??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 It's just a pavement covered slope leading down to the water. Bear in mind this was from an early beta and some tweaks were made to the way water banks are shaped so you may not be able to reproduce this exact thing. Thanks for your reply, hoolaman. But are you sure it´s just a pavement covered slope? I´ve already tried that - and unfortunately it didn´t look nearly as great as in this screenshot. To me this looks like a vertical wall - I´ve only managed to produce slopes. Could you please tell me if the location in the screenshot is in any scenario? I´d love to have a closer look at it. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Sgt Shultz...ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL! Your swamp that is... Great work, man. It looks like a blast to fight through. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Thanks Mord. It sort of grabbed me and wouldn't let go. And to think that not a single soul will ever have any reason to tread that particular swamp. Maybe I will put Shrek's shack in the middle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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