Making CM:BN more like CMx1-mods?

[Lt Bull]

I have a few feature/mod requests.

1. I would rather be able to toggle on the highlighted unit bases like in CMx1 than rely on the CM:BN icons that hover high over each unit. Really not a fan of the icons. Is there some way to activate these highlighted bases on all units (at least on your own friendly units) so you can get a better idea for where and in what terrain your units are in without having to click on the floating unit icon first?

In top down view, yes, the icons are OK, but with the camera at ground level, the icons are kinda useless for knowing exactly where and in what terrain your units are in.

I have already seen that a mod already is out to increase the brightness of the stock unit base colours. This is a step in the right direction, I just want the option to have these bases permanently on like in CMx1.

Another remedy might be to reduce the floating height of the icons.

2. It is more difficult in CM:BN to determine just how many casualties (if any) any unit has taken than it was in CMx1. The only place you can look is on the left side of the screen because all icons belonging to dead soldiers are removed from the unit info screen. It would be good if at least the list of soldiers you see on the left of the screen was COLOUR CODED, with dead/casualties coloured red (rather than remain green). Even better, why not just leave the dead units soldier/weapon icon in the unit screen but change it to a RED colour?

[~Viajero]

I have already seen that a mod already is out to increase the brightness of the stock unit base colours.

I have been looking in the Mods forum and could not fin this one. Can you please link it?

[Lt Bull]

I have been looking in the Mods forum and could not fin this one. Can you please link it?

More Visible Unit Base Markers

[stciaram]

I quote Bull... another problem imho, is the impossibility to see a the command chain like CMx1, (a red line if in command, a black if out command). Yes i can read the difficoult name of unit but its not so usefull in the main of battle. I think that this would be a optional feature to patch

[Lt Bull]

I quote Bull... another problem imho, is the impossibility to see a the command chain like CMx1, (a red line if in command, a black if out command). Yes i can read the difficoult name of unit but its not so usefull in the main of battle. I think that this would be a optional feature to patch

Haha...I too sorely miss the CMx1 style "command chain" visual cue as well. I am certain a mod couldn't add it so I didn't add it to my list. However, because you mentioned it, I will add it as item 3 as a feature request:

3. CMX1 style "command chain" lines.

[ricroma]

I personally agree with all the requests from the poster.

I would also add:

4) target lines, right now I don't have any idea to what my guys are shooting at, or where they are shooted from. In big battles things tend to become really confusing (at least for me, not such a good gamer, I know).

5) terrain indication (as stated in other post).

6) specific anti-tank arch.

7) different unspotted icons for tanks and veichles (again, as stated in other posts). I just find it conterintuitive (sp?): "Sir, I'm sure there's an enemy formation behind that bocage, but I'm not sure if it's a tank or an infantry squad making tank noise with their mounth"

I personally don't know if any of these can be somehow coded by modders.

In any case, the game is great, and I think that most of these "issues" can be solved only by getting used to the new engine.

My two cents.

Ricroma

Edited for adding more stuff

[Lt Bull]

I personally agree with all the requests from the poster.

I would also add:

4) target lines, right now I don't have any idea to what my guys are shooting at, or where they are shooted from.

5) terrain indication (as stated in other post).

6) specific anti-tank arch.

I personally don't know if any of these can be somehow coded by modders.

Very much yes plese to all of these but I am quite sure they can't be added as mods. Sadly I also think that these features will strangley be listed as "too hard"/maybe next engine if we ask BFC to add them in a patch. So sadly I strongly doubt it we will see any of these non-mode features 3, 4, 5 or 6 anything soon, let alone in a patch. Why they are missing in the first place is mystery to me.

In any case, the game is great, and I think that most of these "issues" can be solved only by getting used to the new engine.

These really shouldn't be "issues" to start with. They weren't issues in CMx1.

[7thGalaxy]

Very much yes plese to all of these but I am quite sure they can't be added as mods. Sadly I also think that these features will strangley be listed as "too hard"/maybe next engine if we ask BFC to add them in a patch. So sadly I strongly doubt it we will see any of these non-mode features 3, 4, 5 or 6 anything soon, let alone in a patch. Why they are missing in the first place is mystery to me.

These really shouldn't be "issues" to start with. They weren't in CMx1.

The engine is completely different, it's a totally different game. What was in Cmx1 is no guide to what can be in CMx2. I'm sure that all of these things are on the list to put in (nothing has been taken out, as such), but so are hundreds of other desirable things as well.

[Lt Bull]

The engine is completely different, it's a totally different game. What was in Cmx1 is no guide to what can be in CMx2. I'm sure that all of these things are on the list to put in (nothing has been taken out, as such), but so are hundreds of other desirable things as well.

Yes they are different games but they both share the same set of needs as far as UI and user-feedback/interaction goes.

It is so frustrating to know that essentially six great UI features which were present and worked well in CMx1 are now missing in CMBN.

[Ranger33]

I quote Bull... another problem imho, is the impossibility to see a the command chain like CMx1, (a red line if in command, a black if out command). Yes i can read the difficoult name of unit but its not so usefull in the main of battle. I think that this would be a optional feature to patch

When you click a unit, all of the others in its platoon will have their icons lit up. If you double click it will select all of them. If you select any HQ it will highlight everything under its command.

[Yskonyn]

Not to start an arguement, but the fact that certain UI elements were in Cmx1 and Cmx2 seems to share roughly the same UI doesn't make it a fact that it should be easy to implement. The whole game 'skeleton' and calculation engine is completely different.

Take for example rims on two cars. They're both rims. Sharing the same purpose, yet there is a big chance the one won't fit on the other's car.

[Lt Bull]

When you click a unit, all of the others in its platoon will have their icons lit up. If you double click it will select all of them. If you select any HQ it will highlight everything under its command.

Yes I am aware of that and do use it, but the CMx1 "command chain" lines provides an immediate visual cue of:

a) if the unit is in or out of command (if a subordinate)

who are the subordinates (if a HQ)

c) in what direction each of a) and are relative to the selected unit.

Much more condensed, quality information right there bundle in to the one feature (not spread out across a number of different places in the GUI).

Not to start an arguement, but the fact that certain UI elements were in Cmx1 and Cmx2 seems to share roughly the same UI doesn't make it a fact that it should be easy to implement. The whole game 'skeleton' and calculation engine is completely different.

Disagree and don't think your choice of analogy was appropriate in this case.

Of course they are different engines and you just don't "copy and paste" from one to the other. However, it seems kind of silly to think BFC just completely ignored these CMx1 features and how they made the game better for the player, omitting them completely in CMBN.

[Yskonyn]

Disagree and don't think your choice of analogy was appropriate in this case.

Of course they are different engines and you just don't "copy and paste" from one to the other. However, it seems kind of silly to think BFC just completely ignored these CMx1 features and how they made the game better for the player, omitting them completely in CMBN.

No, I was merely pointing out that although it might 'seem' like the interface is similar to Cmx1, it doesn't mean it actually is. At least not in terms of 'how' it uses the data from the game engine. You're cutting a few corners in your assumptions.

As explained in the other thread about the terrain values, it's just not how the engine works anymore. There are no hard penalties for a given terrain type. It circumstantial from what I understand, depending not only on terrain, but also on the actual 3D objects present in the tile. Every object you can see is an actual obstacle.

The one thing I do find difficult to judge is when we're talking about rivers and streams and when looking for holes in the bocage, but otherwise I find the terrain perfectly readable for making plans.

[LJFHutch]

I'd like command lines to show up when you click on or mouse over the command icons in the unit's menu (visual, audio, radio etc), having them up all the time or when you select a unit would look terrible in my opinion.

I also agree about casualties, it's confusing after a while (how many guys have these lost?).

[Cid250]

6) specific anti-tank arch.

7) different unspotted icons for tanks and veichles (again, as stated in other posts). I just find it conterintuitive (sp?): "Sir, I'm sure there's an enemy formation behind that bocage, but I'm not sure if it's a tank or an infantry squad making tank noise with their mounth"

In some way... CMBB and CMAK are still beter games than CM:N those are two examples.

I wold like also an option to display "command" lines... the old red and black lines show when you are in command range of your HQ... nothing is better than those command lines, to get the overall picture really fast.

An option to turn ON/OFF those red/black lines, will be nice.

[Yskonyn]

(...) nothing is better than those command lines, to get the overall picture really fast.

An option to turn ON/OFF those red/black lines, will be nice.

I agree. This would indeed be a nice option and is indeed the most clear way to get an overall picture. Looking at the small indicator lights on the unit card on a per-unit basis is not very efficient.

Would like to see that implemented into CMSF as well if it gets done in CMN.

[Lt Bull]

Echoing thoughts already being mentioned elsewhere...

8) Gridded terrain/contour lines...anything to help with graphic visualisation of the 3D undulations of the terrain.

NOTE: had a decent lighting/rendering system been implemented in to the game, this would not have been such a problem. :/

...and a personal one

9) That audible "beep" sound from CMx1 that you hear when the turn based replay ends!

Again, I am thinking NONE of these things can be fixed with mods so may as we add them to the feature request (or more correctly feature REINSTATEMENT!) list.

[moneymaxx]

I agree with many of the above requests, I especially miss the command lines.

Target lines however, if implemented, should only be available on lower FOW levels because they would undo much of the relative spotting system. E.g. one of your units sees an ATG, and draws a target line. Now you have a perfect visual clue for all other units where to area fire.

[hoolaman]

Yes they are different games but they both share the same set of needs as far as UI and user-feedback/interaction goes.

It is so frustrating to know that essentially six great UI features which were present and worked well in CMx1 are now missing in CMBN.

The new game has multiple modes of C2 communication and several special cases where units can be in range a higher HQ or in comms being in range of another unit with a radio.

How do you propose to display all that in lines on the map? It is no longer a binary choice and besides they are really ugly.

[Magpie_Oz]

If you do want CM2 to look more like CM1, why not just play CM1 ? Just kidding.

I much prefer the new style of interface, being a bit more fuzzy adds to the realism to my mind, if a unit is out of contact it is not instantly apparent just like the real world.

Grided terrain might be useful but I would rather be able to print out a map in topographic map style and have it as a reference rather than see it on the on-screen terrain.

[moneymaxx]

I much prefer the new style of interface, being a bit more fuzzy adds to the realism to my mind, if a unit is out of contact it is not instantly apparent just like the real world.

I beg to differ. I think in RL it quickly becomes apparent when a unit is out of contact. Countless war movies draw their dramatic moments from the line "Sir, we have lost contact with (insert unit name here)". And it's not that the information is not being offered ingame, it is just not being offered efficiently.

Grided terrain might be useful but I would rather be able to print out a map in topographic map style and have it as a reference rather than see it on the on-screen terrain.

Gridded terrain would be nice if optional. Lack of realistic lighting and limitations in computer graphics make it hard to distinguish subtle hight differences.

[Coaxial Puppet]

If you do want CM2 to look more like CM1, why not just play CM1 ? Just kidding.

I much prefer the new style of interface, being a bit more fuzzy adds to the realism to my mind, if a unit is out of contact it is not instantly apparent just like the real world.

Grided terrain might be useful but I would rather be able to print out a map in topographic map style and have it as a reference rather than see it on the on-screen terrain.

I agree that the fuzzyness adds greatly to the game. I've had some awesome battles that might not have been as fun if it was a cm1 game.

I don't think the command lines are needed much. I really haven't missed them in the least.

[Lt Bull]

If you do want CM2 to look more like CM1, why not just play CM1 ? Just kidding.

Don't laugh...I still am! Currently playing the last battle of the epic CMAK operation "Monty's Gambit" via PBEM, 20 battles in all, each battle up to 35 turns, highly recommend it! This is actually the second time I have played the operation with my opponent: had so much fun the first time. i would even play it again a 3rd time...I haven't as yet "explored" the full map (or pushed the Germans back beyond the first few maps) playing as the Brits...it eats at me!

Believe me that assessing the battlefield and the state of your units is MUCH easier in CMx1 than in CMBN. From the inclusion of command lines (to see who is related to what and where and in what state), to gridded terrain (to help asses the battlefield in leui of no real quality lighting/shading to help you), to the highlighted unit bases that allow you to much better assess where your units are and in what terrain they are in, to the mouse over terrain info when using the LOS tool, to the "terrain occupied" info on the unit information panel to quickly tell you what terrain they are in, to the to the unit status info that tells you WHAT ORDER your unit is currently following.....I could go on. :/

I much prefer the new style of interface, being a bit more fuzzy adds to the realism to my mind, if a unit is out of contact it is not instantly apparent just like the real world.

As mentioned by moneymax....its about efficiency of communicating information back to the player about what is happening. CMBN in many ways is inferior to CMx1 in this area.

Grided terrain might be useful but I would rather be able to print out a map in topographic map style and have it as a reference rather than see it on the on-screen terrain.

I had considered this being a great game feature even back in CMx1 days. Actually printable battle maps of games of this type would be a cool feature. ARMA2:OA actually has a full topographic map of the whole 18?km x 18?km battlefield of Chernarus and Takistan.

[TheBlackHand]

No command lines? Seriously? WTF?

I was worried about this in the demo. Didn't see the command lines, but figured I was just missing something because I didn't have the manual.

How could they possibly think of leaving this key feature out? Command lines were vital to me in maintaining a coordinated attack/defense. Command lines were what kept my platoons together . . . and consequently, allowed me to win more than lose.

This is one reason why I'm holding off on buying the game until all of these kinks are worked out . . . or not.

No targeting lines either? Really? Eh, don't like the sound of that.

IMO, the gameplay/controlability of CMAK was pretty damn close to perfect. I expected/hoped for an updated version of that game to be even better. This is what I hope for CM:BN. I like what I'm hearing about the graphics . . . I don't like what I'm hearing about the controls. The conversation in this thread is confirming a lot of the things that worried me about the demo.

It would be a shame if the gameplay has been sacrificed for nice graphics.

(I also don't like the camera controls in the demo, when compared to those in CMAK, but that's for another thread.)

[Battlefront.com]

A lot of what I see here I saw back in 2007 when we shipped CM:SF. For those who can't believe CM:BN could possibly live without some CMx1 feature or another, know that the game engine has been doing fine for 4 years now and therefore you won't see us running around as if our hair is on fire. Until this new wave of CMx1 guys came in I haven't seen a request for Command Lines for years.

There are more differences in CMx1 and CMx2 than similarities when it comes down to the details. Each game engine, therefore, requires its own set of features tailored to the game itself. One can easily go back to CMx1 and say there are all kinds of UI features "missing" from it because they're present in CMx2. And don't even get me started on gameplay differences

Remember, you've got perhaps 11 years of CMx1 gameplay wired into your brain... I'd be utterly shocked if a couple of hours of play with CMx2 didn't cause problems. For a fair assessment you need to give the new game some time before you conclude what it is you really want/need.

And remember... above ALL else... whatever you are thinking is a personal opinion, not fact. Never, ever confuse the two because that gets discussions into all kinds of problems. "How can anybody play without Command Lines?" Well, for me... very easily. Next question?

That being said, we do have many UI improvements planned for the game as time goes on. Up until now we've had to concentrate on the gameplay with most of our energies. Which is why the gameplay in CMx2 is far, far, far more advanced than we even dreamed CMx1 could be (not to mention what it actually was). As we go forward the game engine will continue to evolve and improve.

Steve