Barkhorn1x Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 OK - so how does this work in CMBN? Do you have to get in there at eye level and place movement/facing vectors? Or do you tell the tank "go here" and the TC AI is smart enough to figure it out? (BTW, pardon my ignorance as I did not really PLAY CMSF - just tested the demo for graphics settings purposes.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 OK - so how does this work in CMBN? Do you have to get in there at eye level and place movement/facing vectors? Or do you tell the tank "go here" and the TC AI is smart enough to figure it out? (BTW, pardon my ignorance as I did not really PLAY CMSF - just tested the demo for graphics settings purposes.) What I do is, eyeball a potential hull down position, then plot the waypoint at that location and highlight the waypoint by clicking it and selecting the target command. This allows you to see what locations can be targeted from that waypoint as you move the mouse around (the target line originates from the tank, but the LOS is for the waypoint). In addition, if the location of the waypoint is hull down relative to wherever you're pointing, this will be displayed as text next to the vehicle. That way you can find good hull down position. Remember that since ballistics are now done with the polygons, there are gradations in hull down, in the sense that you can be barely hull down to completely hull down and shifting that waypoint around a bit can make a huge difference. That TacAI will never be able to handle finding hull down positions because it does not know relative to where on the map you want to be hull down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Thanks a lot for that answer, stikkypixie. That was very clear and helpful - to me, at least. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 My question is not how to find a good hull-down position, but can you get your tank to stay there ? Sometimes in CMx1, to my horror, the little pixelkommandeur decides that things are a bit hot and to "just move back a bit" and exposes himself even worse than if he had just stayed put. Is that sort of thing necessarily left to the TacAI lest worse issues arise, or can you set him there in stone ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 The tank will move if it decides it's threatened. You cannot force it to stay parked. At least not in CMSF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 My question is not how to find a good hull-down position, but can you get your tank to stay there ? Look at my AAR... I had tanks hulldown for several turns, and not once did they back out of their position. Although of course if artillery starts to fall or the tank starts to think of itself as threatened then it will, and should, seek better cover. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noltyboy Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Is it perhaps time to start a CM BN tactics forum with stickies to show things like this. (using SF pics for now) so all the golden oldies dont have to ask a million times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 My question is not how to find a good hull-down position, but can you get your tank to stay there ? Sometimes in CMx1, to my horror, the little pixelkommandeur decides that things are a bit hot and to "just move back a bit" and exposes himself even worse than if he had just stayed put. Is that sort of thing necessarily left to the TacAI lest worse issues arise, or can you set him there in stone ? If your tank is in a hulldown spot to fight and everywhere else it has to move is "worse" then that is not a good hulldown spot to be in to start with. If the TAC AI does take over and needs to move then it should have had a spot to retreat to safely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The tank will move if it decides it's threatened. You cannot force it to stay parked. At least not in CMSF. Given that they seem more apt to pop smoke in BN, wouldn't it be likely to do that before it started moving? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I can't wait for the CMx2 Ostfront game so I can relive the experience of my IS-2s fleeing in terror from every German tank I command them to fire upon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I can't wait for the CMx2 Ostfront game so I can relive the experience of my IS-2s fleeing in terror from every German tank I command them to fire upon. That behaviour has changed from CMx1 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 That is some good news 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 something that would really help the WEGO players is the time in mins and seconds it will take at the end of a waypoint..this would make timing things alot easier...also info saying something like hull down popping up near the waypoint when trying to position you movemoent end point... With these two bits of info added alot of the negatives when using WEGO will be easier to get around...especially the timing point raised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 something that would really help the WEGO players is the time in mins and seconds it will take at the end of a waypoint..this would make timing things alot easier...also info saying something like hull down popping up near the waypoint when trying to position you movemoent end point... With these two bits of info added alot of the negatives when using WEGO will be easier to get around...especially the timing point raised. Hull down is a relative thing. How can you tell if you're hull down if you don't tell relative to what position? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Well if your coming upto a hill and want to be in a hull down position it would flash up at the point you would be roughly in hull down from the direct opposite side...I understand what your saying but wasnt there an order or something in the old CMx1...I thought it went something like this...long time ago I can't remember...I just find trying to get hull down is a fiddly business in CMSF.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Well if your coming upto a hill and want to be in a hull down position it would flash up at the point you would be roughly in hull down from the direct opposite side...I understand what your saying but wasnt there an order or something in the old CMx1...I thought it went something like this...long time ago I can't remember...I just find trying to get hull down is a fiddly business in CMSF.. And where would the direct opposite end be? The first hill or the hill behind that? An implementation like that would involve the AI somehow guessing to which position you want to be hull down. In CMx1 you had to put a second waypoint to where you wish to be in hull down and if there wasn't one the tank would just continue to go there. In CMSF you can just eyeball. Remember the terrain is much more detailed and it not that hard to find potential hull down positions. It's no more fiddly than in CMx1 and that hull down command was not used often or you would probably remembered how it worked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Good info. Stikkypixie. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It's no more fiddly than in CMx1 and that hull down command was not used often or you would probably remembered how it worked. I used the hull down command in CMx1 pretty often. You had to tell to which position you were seeking hull down to. The tank then moved along the line and stopped when it had reached the hull down position. Pretty easy to use. Killed some Cats with my Shermans or Tank-Destroyers like this. Then was the other order which was quite nice: shoot-and-scoot. A bit trickier to use, since, you didn't know if you were hull down. But the tank would back out after a single shot. Can all be achieved in CMSF too - but a bit more awkward. But I would appreciate to find the two orders again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Then was the other order which was quite nice: shoot-and-scoot. A bit trickier to use, since, you didn't know if you were hull down. But the tank would back out after a single shot. Can all be achieved in CMSF too - but a bit more awkward. But I would appreciate to find the two orders again. I think Shoot and Scoot is easy in CMSF, and you can implement all kinds of variations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It's a shame there is no mechanism to command hull down. Steel Beasts does it easily enough, and in real time. The tanks just move toward the hill/ridge until they clear the top with 1000-2000meters LOS in front of them, measured from the gun tube. The same thing could be coded for this game, if they really wanted to. Like this: Two clicks, one to begin the hull down command movement, the other click is the spot on the other side of the hill you want to see, and the tank stops when it has moved far enough to see this position, measured from the gun tube. There should also be a turret down command, for safe spotting from behind a ridge without getting hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I think Shoot and Scoot is easy in CMSF, and you can implement all kinds of variations. In principle this is true. What I don't like is the fact, that you have to time the delay in the firing position with the pause key. Pretty often my tanks then stay for a few seconds after they have fired - mostly to their deadly end. instead of hitting the reverse just after the shot is fired. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 I think Shoot and Scoot is easy in CMSF, and you can implement all kinds of variations. Can we get some specifics please? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Can we get some specifics please? You can get a good idea of how it works here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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