The Middle East Revolutions - a new United Islamic Caliphate series?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Current events in the Middle East suggest that there is scope for a possible new campaign/mod series for CMSF.

The back story might be that, over the next few months the Middle East revolutions continue with Jordan, Saudi Arabia and some of the other smaller states. Islamic extremists take over the revolutions. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria Iraq and Iran forming the United Islamic Calphate. With the failure of the peace process and the ongoing deadlock over the Iranian nuclear issue tensions within the region and beyond escalate.The small Gulf

The UIC prepares for war with Israel, threatens Turkey and closes the Persian Gulf The West finally realises the true nature of threat and builds up heavy mechanized forces in Turkey first to defend that country from a possible invasion and later to mount offensive operations. Meanwhile light forces deploy to defend the small Gulf States. US Marines and other NATO forces move into positions where they can reinforce Isreal and reinforce the Gulf States as soon as the navy can open the Straits of Hormuz.

Upon the outbreak of war it is intended that US and NATO forces will sweep down form the north through Syria and Iraq to reinforce units moving into Isreal and conducting offensive operations from that quarter. Large Israeli forces will be committed against Egypt in the first instance. In the Gulf the minor allied states will be reinforced but operations will be defensive for the time bieng.

Subsequent operations will involve offensives into Saudi Arabia and the eastern part of Iraq to relieve the Gulf States. Finally, if the regime has not already fallen US and NATO forces will invade Iran to effect regime change.

However, the UIC has other plans and mounts a massive pre-emptive invasion of Israel before the Western buildup is complete/ Secondary offensives are simultanously opened against the Gulf States. It will take several more weeks for Western forces to be ready for their major offensive operations. Isreali and Gulf States armies will have to hold until then.

[Erwin]

Sounds good.

To add another ticking clock, the NATO and Russia agree that the entire area is too much trouble and will mutually use up their nuke stocks on the the entire area from Egypt to Iraq if your force can't succeed with less than 10% casualties.

Ok, that's maybe a bit extreme. How about 15% casualties?

[toxic.zen]

i agree it would make a great module, for an already popular game! I have heard mentioned before that battlefront is now done with this game excepting patches... But! it would be cool just the same to see expanded modules.

[Erik Springelkamp]

Egypt has bought Dutch YPR's, so those are already in the module.

They can be seen on the streets of Cairo now.

But what type are those tanks there with that extra cupola on top of their turret?

[hcrof]

The cupola tanks are American made M60s.

Must. Not. Rant.

Lets just say a United Islamic Caliphate like the one you describe is never going to happen...

[MikeyD]

A more appropriate theme might have to do a with one country's army going over to its population's democratic rebellion then finding itself threatened by the neighboring forces of some U.S.-backed despot.

[abneo3sierra]

A more appropriate theme might have to do a with one country's army going over to its population's democratic rebellion then finding itself threatened by the neighboring forces of some U.S.-backed despot.

Not sure there are US backed despots in this region, if you refer to Israel, they are the only real democracy.

That said however, it makes for some interesting "Blue-Blue" possibilities with Egypt armed mostly US-style, and whichever despot takes over the "democracy" in Egypt after their "democratic" rebellion of the Muslim Brotherhood, probably would be against the US and or Israel.

[LongLeftFlank]

Nice thought, but you can count Iran out of that happy little Crescent -- they are Shias and will never, ever get along with Salafis (fundamentalist Sunnis) who hate them as much as the infidel.

That aside, such a Caliphate would be about as united in practice as the short-lived "United Arab Republic" formed by Egypt and Syria in the 1960s heyday of Arab Socialism and Nasserism. The Egyptians have a past track record of alienating their Arab "country cousins" with disdainful arrogance; whether a clerical regime with roots in the poorer "street" would follow suit is open to question. In general, the Arabs who have water (Egypt, Iraq, the Levant) don't get along well with their desert cousins.

[gibsonm]

Well how about the new “nice guys” on the block - Libya (post the Lockerbie patch up) intervening?

Then you’d have Blue with “red” kit and Red with some “blue“ and some “red” kit.

[abneo3sierra]

Well how about the new “nice guys” on the block - Libya (post the Lockerbie patch up) intervening?

Then you’d have Blue with “red” kit and Red with some “blue“ and some “red” kit.

THAT would be interesting....

[gibsonm]

You could then do a rematch at El Alamein with Libyians advancing on Cairo and the Egyptians defending.

[WillLight]

Not sure there are US backed despots in this region, if you refer to Israel, they are the only real democracy.

That said however, it makes for some interesting "Blue-Blue" possibilities with Egypt armed mostly US-style, and whichever despot takes over the "democracy" in Egypt after their "democratic" rebellion of the Muslim Brotherhood, probably would be against the US and or Israel.

Hmm, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, until recently Egypt. These aren't US backed, or not despotic enough?

That being said, even if Islamists do take over in Egypt, there is 0% chance of a US backed anything intervening.

Anyway, it is now incumbent on the Islamists in Egypt to show the world that an election in which they take part is not the last election in the country, as in Iran and the Gaza strip. They should look to Turkey for an example.

Back on topic, it would make a great game, but you'd think all the stuff required is there already, maybe without the arab-looking infantry on the blue side. After all the Egyptian, Saudi, Jordanian, Kuwaiti and to some extend Iraqi armies are US-weaponry based.

[Sivodsi]

That said however, it makes for some interesting "Blue-Blue" possibilities with Egypt armed mostly US-style,

Well yeah, but Egypt has enough Red kit mixed into the blue stuff to make it even more interesting:

M1 Abrams

T62 in storage according to wiki, but surely some rebs would free them:D)

T54-5 Upgraded - close enough or better than Syrian standards

YPR-765

BMP-1

BTR-60

BRDM-2

(according to Wiki)

[abneo3sierra]

Hmm, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, until recently Egypt. These aren't US backed, or not despotic enough?

That being said, even if Islamists do take over in Egypt, there is 0% chance of a US backed anything intervening.

Anyway, it is now incumbent on the Islamists in Egypt to show the world that an election in which they take part is not the last election in the country, as in Iran and the Gaza strip. They should look to Turkey for an example.

Back on topic, it would make a great game, but you'd think all the stuff required is there already, maybe without the arab-looking infantry on the blue side. After all the Egyptian, Saudi, Jordanian, Kuwaiti and to some extend Iraqi armies are US-weaponry based.

Well, my reply was to MikeyD who hinted at a despotic, US backed neighbor of a "democratic revolution" intervening...since we were talking "Egypt" events primarily, their neighbors who are despotic, would not intervene, US backed or not...the only possible intervention among their neighbors who is US backed, is Israel---hence my answer.

That said however, I do not think just because a country is a monarchy,as your first three examples above were, makes them despotic. Most of the people in Saudi Arabia, and in Kuwait at least, quite love their royal families. My guess is that it may be quite different in Jordan, but Jordan also hardly qualifies as despotic.

On topic on your last paragraph, yes, I am pretty sure we can make scenarios already with alot of the possibilities,even without a new module...mix and match would work for most of the countries in the region who at various times have been armed by either the US or Soviets.

[abneo3sierra]

You could then do a rematch at El Alamein with Libyians advancing on Cairo and the Egyptians defending.

Major, we have to play a H2H game some day if you ever get a chance to actually play for fun without "beta-testing"

Ron

[Golani]

My usual rant is why Israel was not involved in one of the CMSF modules (I mean, seriously, we have the Marines assaulting from the North West, NATO from the North, the US Army from the east and the British from the South East, what are we missing? the South West border with Israel...) so I'd be keen to see something like that, although non of the IDF ammo (except for the GIL and TOW) exists in the game...

[Damian90]

M1 Abrams

M1A1's, export "monkey" variant without currently used by US tanks armor package and less capabale APFSDS ammo. Actually hulls and turrets are made in US, same weapons, engines and other major components, then shipped to Egypt and put togheter there. So if US will cutt off logistic chain, after some time none of them will be operational.

Egypt have also M60A1's and M60A3's, currently all M60A1's were upgraded to M60A3 standard.

If US will cutt logistic chain, Egypt can have problems to maintain these, still there is Turkey or other M60 series users so some spare parts might be bought.

T62 in storage according to wiki, but surely some rebs would free them)

All T-62's are probably in their original configuration and not all are stored, at least one was seen in Cairo.

T54-5 Upgraded - close enough or better than Syrian standards

Some or most of T-54/55 series were upgraded with L7A1 105mm rifled gun, new suspension system, fire control system, engines from M60 series, so if US will cutt logistic chain, these also will be unoperational.

YPR-765

Preatty much useless in modern battlefield, it is not trully IFV, rather and M113 on steroids.

BMP-1

Outdated and useless in modern battlefield.

BTR-60

BRDM-2

Without comment...

They have more interesting vehicles though, like Ratel wheeled armored vehicles with BMP-2 turrets.

[Boche]

Still doesnt mean we cant use them in a campaign, fictional after all..

[Boche]

By the way, now that we are on the subject. has anyone else felt kinda guidy and extra interested whenever they hear talk about syria on the news after playing CMSF?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

My usual rant is why Israel was not involved in one of the CMSF modules (I mean, seriously, we have the Marines assaulting from the North West, NATO from the North, the US Army from the east and the British from the South East, what are we missing? the South West border with Israel...) so I'd be keen to see something like that, although non of the IDF ammo (except for the GIL and TOW) exists in the game...

Yes I agree with you about that. I suspect that the assumption for the original Syrain campaign it was assumed that the Isrealis were told to stay out of it. However, in the Uniited Islamic Capiphate campaign we are looking at a situation of all our war right accross the Middle East, In this situation one suspects a lot would change although there could still be large protests ion the home front. That however is not what the game is about.

In this situation we would likely see NATO.US forces being deployed to Israel at some point. Very likely a major series of tank battles in the Sinai largely involving the Israelis, perhaps backed by NATO although that would be a secondary front for NATO. The main NATO force would likely come down from the Turkey through Syria and Iraq and some ISraeli support.

While Iran might not be a formal member of the UIC they would certainly consider a temporary alliance and indeed (in the real world) seem to be working with Syria to support Hammas and Hezbollah. If, as I assume the small Gulf States such as Kuwait, Qatar and Oman remain as they are now with strong US military backing they could well face invasion before the US can deploy through the Straits of Hormuz or for the heavy mechanized forces to fight their way through Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Saudi Arabia so there could be a desperare defensive phase here for a few months. If IRan has blocked the Straits of Hormuz they will by this time have been at war with the US for some months and, once the UIC countris have been dealt with could well face a ground invasion if the current government has not fallen by this time.

Anyway, while this entire conflict does seem unlikely it is a situation where things would be as hard as they could be for NATO and we would have a situation where M!A1s/M1A2s could be matched against each other and Israeli Merkavas which allows for some very interesting tank battles. Could be even tougher than facing those T90s :-)

Luke

[LUCASWILLEN05]

You could then do a rematch at El Alamein with Libyians advancing on Cairo and the Egyptians defending.

An Egyptian - Libyan near future conflict would be interesting. In the UIC world scenario Libya could be allied with Egypt against Israel and NATO, You might even have a North African theatre also involving Tunisia, Algeria, Morrocco etc.

This Middle East setting CMSF is set in has a lot of room for development yet and I would be willing to pay a similar price to that of the existing modules if additional modules like NATO were brought onto the market doing something along the UIC and future Arab-Israeli theme. In fact, the more modules the better for this game.

Luke

[daisy]

They have more interesting vehicles though, like Ratel wheeled armored vehicles with BMP-2 turrets.

Ratels were designed and used as IFV's for mechanised infantry batalions. Some Ratels were fitted with 90mm guns to give the mech infantry a fighting chance against T34-85, T54 and T55 tanks.

The Ratels were not originally fitted with BMP-2 turrets, their turrets were identical to that found on the panhard armoured car with 90mm gun (aka Eland).

I was also not aware that Ratels had been sold to Egypt. Do you maybe have a link to a source ?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Hmm, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, until recently Egypt. These aren't US backed, or not despotic enough?

That being said, even if Islamists do take over in Egypt, there is 0% chance of a US backed anything intervening.

Anyway, it is now incumbent on the Islamists in Egypt to show the world that an election in which they take part is not the last election in the country, as in Iran and the Gaza strip. They should look to Turkey for an example.

Back on topic, it would make a great game, but you'd think all the stuff required is there already, maybe without the arab-looking infantry on the blue side. After all the Egyptian, Saudi, Jordanian, Kuwaiti and to some extend Iraqi armies are US-weaponry based.

For wargaming purposes we have to look at the worst possible case otherwise we would not have a war to fight in the first place. The UIC in my proposed scenarion is of course modeled on something like the old Arab League and United Arab Republic. A temporary alliance of conveniennce brouigfh together by extremist Islamists against Isreal and NATO (particularly the US) It would probably not be a real or lasting political union as with its predecessors. Some form of unified military command could be possible in the short term which is where our hypothetical war occurs.

Ideally, for a UIC scenario I would like to see the following "Red" TOEs in addiition to Syria

Egypt

Jordan

Saudi Arabia

Iraq

Iran

Some of these have very modern equipment supplied by the US. We can always allow for equipment failure in the scenario design anyway.

For "Blue" forces we could have some additional NATO forces such as

France

Italy

Turkey (this one is probably essential

Belgium

Regional "Blue" forces would include

Israel (essential for obvious reasons)

Kuwait

Qatar

Oman

United Arab Emirates

Bahrain

We might alternatively assume that those Gulf states were occupied by Iranian or UIC forces as part of the closure of the Straits of Hormuz which was the real start of this war. Then we can proceed directly to the first major clashes between Western/IDF armies and their UIC/Iranian enemies.

Luke

[Boche]

For wargaming purposes we have to look at the worst possible case otherwise we would not have a war to fight in the first place. The UIC in my proposed scenarion is of course modeled on something like the old Arab League and United Arab Republic. A temporary alliance of conveniennce brouigfh together by extremist Islamists against Isreal and NATO (particularly the US) It would probably not be a real or lasting political union as with its predecessors. Some form of unified military command could be possible in the short term which is where our hypothetical war occurs.

Ideally, for a UIC scenario I would like to see the following "Red" TOEs in addiition to Syria

Egypt

Jordan

Saudi Arabia

Iraq

Iran

Some of these have very modern equipment supplied by the US. We can always allow for equipment failure in the scenario design anyway.

For "Blue" forces we could have some additional NATO forces such as

SPAIN

France

Italy

Turkey (this one is probably essential

Belgium

Regional "Blue" forces would include

Israel (essential for obvious reasons)

Kuwait

Qatar

Oman

United Arab Emirates

Bahrain

We might alternatively assume that those Gulf states were occupied by Iranian or UIC forces as part of the closure of the Straits of Hormuz which was the real start of this war. Then we can proceed directly to the first major clashes between Western/IDF armies and their UIC/Iranian enemies.

Luke

Necessary Edit

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Necessary Edit

Plenty of life here. As well as Spain on the Blue side we could have a North African theatre with additional Algerian, Morroccan, Tunisian and Libyan forces. I think this would be very much of a secondary theatre after NATO/Isreal takes Egypt, however, Spanish, Portugese, Italians could be tasked with these operations perhaps with some assistance from the Marines.

I see the main operations taking place in the Middle East itself followed by final offensives into Iran. Oncer those are completed the North African front can be wrapped up assuming the UIC nations there have not sued for peace which, after the fall of Iran they probably would.

I don't see Russia or China being involved in this conflict in any military sense unless other world crises erupt that drag them into war with the US but I guess it is an option to have a Russian force being deployed to help the Iranians if you really wanted one.

Luke