Map of German bocage defenses at St Lo

[TheVulture]

Since I dug this up for elsewhere, I might as well post it here, although no doubt many grogs will already have seen it. It is a map of the German defensive positions in the bocage around St. Lo around mid-July 1944, showing MG & AT gun positions and fields of fire, dugout positions, and so on. Stolen from the HyperWar website section on US action at St. Lo (see http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-A-StLo/index.html with more maps and pictures).

The forum displays it at slightly lower res than it is; if you right click the image and save it as a file, you will be able to get it about 15% larger when you view the image; it is a bit clearer and you can see a touch more detail.

[Sergei]

The forum displays it at slightly lower res than it is; if you right click the image and save it as a file, you will be able to get it about 15% larger when you view the image; it is a bit clearer and you can see a touch more detail.

Or could it be just that your web browser is showing things in smaller size? Because I haven't ever noticed the forum software automatically reducing picture sizes. If you're using Firefox, press Ctrl-0 to reset magnification. Another possibility would be browser auto-resize, but magnification is one thing that many people seem to have without being aware of it.

That's nice, anyway. I've been reading that same study on the US Army history site: http://www.history.army.mil/html/bookshelves/resmat/WW2-EAME.html

and they seem to have a slightly bigger scan of the map:

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-13/mp16.jpg

[Sergei]

Here's a Google Maps view of the same area. The map point is to the east of the "Le Carillon" reference on the drawn map. There's also Google Street View on D974 but you can't really see much from there. But the Street View has some quite amazing selection of smaller country roads in the Cotentin peninsula, for instance.

[Sgt Joch]

very nice find!

[Moon]

Interesting. Two things I noticed:

- many rifle pits seem to be on the enemy side of the bocage?

- who made this map? It's not a German map obviously.

[Sergei]

- many rifle pits seem to be on the enemy side of the bocage?

Supposing that the map is correct, this might be in case the enemy slips through at one point and you need to guard your backs until a counter-attack hopefully repulses them. In such constricted terrain this is something that you need to prepare for, as one MG-42 cannot control a square kilometer like in the steppe.

- who made this map? It's not a German map obviously.

Probably someone of the following:

WAR DEPARTMENT

Historical Division

Washington 25, D.C.

21 August 1946

Twelfth in the series of studies on particular combat operations, St-Lo is the story of a corps in the First Army during the bitter July battle that led up to and made possible the great breakthrough from the Normandy beachheads. This was the period of the most intense hedgerow fighting. XIX Corps' part in it has been chosen to illustrate this type of combat. The record of other First Army units in this operation have been covered only in outline.

This study is based upon a first narrative by 2d Lt. David Garth, prepared in the field from military records and from notes and interviews recorded during the operation by members of the 2d Information and Historical Service Detachment. The manuscript of this historical officer has been edited and partially rewritten with the help of additional documentation by Col. Charles H. Taylor of the Historical Division, War Department Special Staff. As it is true of all combat actions, available information is uneven in coverage, and field records are not free of minor errors. The results of this will be apparent to men who participated in the action. In order that the more definitive history of this operation may be as complete and correct as possible, readers are urged to send all comments, criticisms, and additional data to the Historical Division, War Department, Washington 25, D.C

[souldierz]

Glad you posted this.I'm not to clear on this battle, does anyone know from where the allies attacked from?I could only guess they attacked from the North,West or North West and also is there an Allied attack plan or picture for this certain area to view as well?

Guess I'll have to dive into the links provided to search for the answers.

Don't suppose you guy's will hand me a Military diploma after I read all your links.Feels like I earned one.Just kidding, no need to break out an exam:D.

One other thing, Its not on the legend but the markings ==== I presume are dirt roads?

[TheVulture]

Glad you posted this.I'm not to clear on this battle, does anyone know from where the allies attacked from?I could only guess they attacked from the North,West or North West and also is there an Allied attack plan or picture for this certain area to view as well?

Guess I'll have to dive into the links provided to search for the answers.

Don't suppose you guy's will hand me a Military diploma after I read all your links.Feels like I earned one.Just kidding, no need to break out an exam:D.

One other thing, Its not on the legend but the markings ==== I presume are dirt roads?

Here's a map (at a much larger scale) of the movement of the front lines in this area. A description of the fighting 12-14th July can be found at http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-A-StLo/USA-A-StLo-4.html - it covers a wider area all around St. Lo, but includes the fighting in this area.

[TheVulture]

One other thing, Its not on the legend but the markings ==== I presume are dirt roads?

From the text, it appears that the dashed 'roads' are sunken lane types. Conveniently they include a photo of one of the lanes near le Carillon by a German strongpoint, which was used as a covered route to reposition troops. There are other good photos of what the German fighting positions looked like too.

[TheVulture]

Just for fun I've tried to copy the unit boundaries and front lines on to the detailed map. The 137th Inf and 320th Inf are both part of 35th Division, but the regimental boundary line runs through the middle of the strong point. I've added light blue lines to show the positions of the two watercourses in the area; the Germans are using those as their outer obstacles.

The advance lines are very, very rough; you can probably get a better idea of where they ought to be by looking where the German back positions are dug (on the assumption that these positions are prepared as the front moves).

[bodkin]

I can't see the difference in the legend between a machine gun and antitank gun, I presuming the dashed arrows are the mg's?

[TheVulture]

I can't see the difference in the legend between a machine gun and antitank gun, I presuming the dashed arrows are the mg's?

Looks to me like the difference is in the symbol at the base of the arrow, although the scan isn't high enough quality to tell the difference unfortunately. The dashed arrows I believe show the field of fire of each weapon - the text talks about MG positions having 15-20 degree fields of fire excavated through the hedgerows.

[TheVulture]

Interesting. Two things I noticed:

- many rifle pits seem to be on the enemy side of the bocage?

- who made this map? It's not a German map obviously.

I'd guess that the map was made after the battle, taking a normal map of the area and marking on the fighting positions found after the battle was over. That being the case, is it possible that any of the rifle pits were dug by the Americans. In a battle that is advancing by 2-300 yards per day, I'd imagine that the attackers would have time to dig fighting positions into the sides of hedges they controlled too.

Plus bear in mind that a lot of the serious prepared positions that appear to be on the wrong side of a terrain feature are actually along the margins of the sunken lanes; they are probably on the defender's side of the hedge running along that side of the road and allow the defenders to use the road very easily to reposition. Conversely, they may not be if the road is only 'bocaged' on one side; without something showing which side of the earth base of the bocage a position is on, it is hard to know which way the defence positions along the road are facing - except where MG firing arcs are shown.

And of course there is no way of telling from the map what micro terrain features might exist to make positions in front of the bocage advisable / necessary; I've seen plenty of fields where the ground slopes down sharply in the last few meters, which would make a position in a hedge at the end useless since it would have a 5 meter field of view, while a pit dug where the ground starts to slope would make a good position.

[Ron]

I can't see the difference in the legend between a machine gun and antitank gun, I presuming the dashed arrows are the mg's?

I can only make out 3 ATGs. One is covering the sunken lane (dotted lines) leading from Le Carillon to La Mare. Another is covering the main road/area to La Mare at the main road/sunken lane junction. The other one is covering the approach from La Petite Ferme in a forward position from the main line.

Thanks for the info TheVulture, very informative and a surprisingly large number of machine guns! A bit of a mistake on the American's part to have their boundary run through the main German defense like that, moot I guess because the German position became untenable anyways due to American progress on the flanks.

[TheVulture]

Thanks for the info TheVulture, very informative and a surprisingly large number of machine guns! A bit of a mistake on the American's part to have their boundary run through the main German defense like that, moot I guess because the German position became untenable anyways due to American progress on the flanks.

Bear in mind that this is in effect a composite view of the defensive positions over several days. At any one time only one line of resistance would exist. Plus there are probably multiple positions in one line so that reserves can reposition depending on where the attacks come from. IIRC the text says that roughly 1 battalion of Germans were defending the area; can't remember how many MGs that includes.

[souldierz]

Nicely done!

I'm going to read further into this battle to understand what happened.By the looks of the map,La Petite Ferme(The Little Farm)seemed to be the tip of the spear for the German defense and it seems like it took the Allied Inf Divisions a couple of days to capture it.The 13th and 14th of July lines must have been a really hard and fierce firefight also.Seems like the Germans set up a good defensive depth using the water ways as a natural barrier to guard their lines and looked like they were set up expecting the main attack to come from the North, while also expecting an Allied forces flanking move from the West.

Just looking at the map it seems like on the 13th of July line, the Allied Inf divisions captured and held the two towns La Mare and Le Carillon that are located on both sides of the German defense.Doesn't seem like the Germans had positions in Le Carillon, but it looks like they sure covered the town well with a lot of AT's and MG's in a big L shaped firing position that's set up around Le Carillon.Seems like the Germans defense was set up in anticipation and hopes of the Allies taking Le Carillon and then keeping them pinned there with very heavy fire.Must have been another nasty and fierce firefight with the Germans across the water way as well as the ones Dug in with heavy weapons to the East from Le Carillon.I can't imaging the Allied forces pushing past Le Carillon, that defense looks tight and very well guarded in that area using natural barriers to halt any assault.

Capturing the area of La Mare seemed to help the Allies a great deal, because it seems like now the Allied Infantry forces have managed to shape their own L formation on the Germans defending the North.With the fall of the German lines defending the North, it looks like the Allied forces can now hit the rear and flanks of the German L defensive position that's got eyes on Le Carillon and giving it hell.The 14th of July assault line I suspect folded and collapsed the well placed Germans and freed up Le Carillon from all that heavy fire.From there the Germans might have been unorganized after the fall back and after the main defensive perimeters were taken and decided to pull out to prepare another gauntlet of death for the advancing Allied Inf Divisions.Also it seems like the Allies avoided any assault over the water ways except for the La petite Ferme(The Little Farm)area where the water ways were mined and the Allies had no choice , but to deal with it.

I could be wrong, but that's what i see when looking at the map.God only knows as well as the men who were there on how much of a hell those men went through on both sides and I can only vaguely imaging their pain and sorrow and how the fighting played out.Anyone know of the casualty count of a result of that battle?

[Pete Wenman]

So is 4 hours enough

[Ron]

Souldierz:there's a nice write-up on how the battles progressed from the link above.

There it fanned eastward several hundred yards and resumed attack to the south. The company soon

Page 86

discovered that its maneuver had not gone far enough to envelop the enemy positions, particularly the reserve line, dug in along another east-west lane. Several times Company G almost reached this lane, only to be forced back by heavy fire from the front and left flank. The battalion commander tried a wider envelopment by sending Company F west of E and then south, but this effort netted only one field. On the other side of the nose, the 320 Infantry was making even less headway on 14 July.

The problem of cracking this German strong-point was never really solved; success on other parts of the front settled the issue during the next few days. On 14 July, in accordance with XIX Corps' order to make the main effort near the river, the 137th Infantry had put all three battalions into line. The 1st Battalion took over the center, with the 3d on its right, each supported by a platoon of medium tanks, a platoon of tank destroyers, and Division Artillery. Attacking at o800, they encountered thick mine fields and 88-mm fire, as well as zones covered by enemy machine guns. The right wing of the 137Th Infantry nevertheless kept its advance rolling. The TD's, operating as assault guns, placed heavy fire on the hedgerows just in front of the infantry, knocking out 19 machine-gun emplacements and 4 mortar positions, and shaking enemy resistance. Late in the day, the 3d and 1st Battalions broke loose in a rapid advance that reached the Pont-Hebert-St-Lo highway. The regiment had suffered 125 casualties during the day's fighting, and lost 11 medium tanks. Fifty-three prisoners were taken.

This progress, and gains made the next day southeast of le Carillon (p. 102), were to undermine the enemy resistance on the center of the 35th Division's front. Though well organized and ably defended, the security of the German strongpoint near le Carillon depended on flank protection. This was compromised by breakthroughs both to left and right, leaving the Germans in a pronounced salient which would eventually be untenable.

[MikeyD]

The number are interesting - a platoon of tanks, a platoon of TDs, 125 allied casualties, 53 German prisoners. It sounds CM-size until you notice the word 'battalions' sprinkled around the text. It makes you wonder how many soldiers made up the actual 'tip-of-the-spear', the portion of the force that would be represented in a CM scenario.

You know what I mean. 27th Armored inf Battlion 'officially' captured the Ludendorf bridge at Remagen but for a time that Battalion was comprised solely of one lonely Sgt Drabik on the bridge with his lieutenant urging him on.

[souldierz]

Thanks Ron!

So if I'm I reading it right the Allies also managed to get at the South East of La Carillon and were also able to move on the South East or South flank of that heavy dug in L shaped German defense formation guarding against La Carillon.It says both German flanks of that hard defended area were hit ,so eventually the German forces who were tasked at guarding the flanks were defeated and that forced the Germans to pull out, because they were now vulnerable in that area.By the looks of it, that was their hardest defense area so when that became compromised the whole German defense plan for that area became compromised, forcing them to fall back and form a new plan on new land.If you ask me from the little I know now about this battle, the Allies seemed to have been very smart on solving the puzzle and dealing with this intelligent Defensive threat and the Germans were smart for Guarding their west flank, but it never really helped guard the flanks of the main hard dug defense line,it was mostly to prevent a complete envelope of their positions.Those casualties were high for that one day in that one area of fighting.All this mention of hardcore weaponry makes you understand a little more the level of violence that took place.The amount of people who died in that operation must have been many.

I seem to be full of questions today, so can anyone also name who were the German and Allied Commanders in charge of this assault and defense?

[-Pv-]

From the narrative in the HyperWar text:

FIFTH ARMY'S LEADER in the July offensive that culminated in destruction of German Seventh Army: Lt. Gen. Omar N. Bradley.

German forces in the battle zone constituted the larger part of Seventh Army, commanded by SS Lt. Gen. Hauser.

-Pv-

[Battlefront.com]

To answer MikeyD's question...

The number are interesting - a platoon of tanks, a platoon of TDs, 125 allied casualties, 53 German prisoners. It sounds CM-size until you notice the word 'battalions' sprinkled around the text. It makes you wonder how many soldiers made up the actual 'tip-of-the-spear', the portion of the force that would be represented in a CM scenario.

If all three battalions were literally engaged at the same time, and were at full strength prior to jumping off, then the fighting strength was probably in the neighborhood of around 6,000 (including direct fire support units). Toss in a company of TDs and other cross attached units and it is probably 7000 total. The losses, therefore, are extremely small percentage wise from a manpower standpoint. 11 Medium Tanks and Tank Destroyers, however, is quite a lot of hardware to lose.

But as Ron said, this must be kept in perspective. It was one small, meaningless patch of soil that ultimately wasn't even taken due directly to the forces involved. That and I doubt that all three Battalions were fighting with 100% strength and 100% commitment of that strength. I'm going to guess that due to space and other considerations they had no more than the equivalent of a battalion engaged in the battle on average, which is roughly 1500 fighting men. At 125 casualties that put the casualty percentage at around 8%. For a couple of fields and some enemy casualties and prisoners. That's quite a price to pay.

Steve

[Lanzfeld]

I really doubt, from my reading, that those battalions were anywhere near full strength. I am betting that they were, at most, 2/3rds.