Lighting ammunition

[Alex]

Lighting ammunitions.

Peoples learned to militate at nights after long, to appearance of devices of nightly vision. In 20th age peoples especially succeeded in this art, but not only due to termovision device and nightly vision device, lighting ammunitions were far before invented. Possibly, someone will say today, that it is a deadlock branch of development of war idea, but it is not needed to hurry, let at first will make attempt consider this question more detailed.

In the game of CMSF the US side possesses plenty of devices of nightly vision (NV) in all types of troops, and as a result possesses advantage during conducting of nightly battles, it is clear, US Army went to it a long ago and systematic. Syria in a game nothing to match against it, except for the very modest amount of analogical devices, the Syrian mechanized infantry is especially unavailing in this plan, not having NV even at the level of company (that by the way not quite and realistically). However how so is all synonymous in the real life?

For the terms of nightly fight, army of different countries often and much apply lighting artillery ammunitions, and similarly portable rocket pistol, shooting lighting rockets. Application of such ammunitions is given by the good illuminating from beneath of target, and promotes efficiency to defeat the target, even at application of NV. For an example I bring a picture over from the last not a long ago studies "Ladoga-2009" of the Russian army.

Result, as we say in Russia, on a face.

Now actually self offering to the developers of game:

1. Artillery.

To enter in ammunition of all artillery weapons (US, Britt and Syrian) in a game (in the proper calibers) along with smoke-shells similarly and lighting-shells. Principle of their action can be following:

A shell goes out on a target on a steep ballistic trajectory (as an ordinary shell), however highly in sky it exposes a parachute and slows falling, showing a graphic effect as from a burning technique (depending on a caliber an area of luminosity must be different).

Going down a shell goes out gradually, time of decline certainly corresponds the real descriptions of this star shell.

Certainly, it would be necessary to teach and AI to use this new function.

2. In the equipment of infantry subdivisions (probably, only Syrian) enter a rocket pistol with the ammo, how many such pistols it is fixed on a company I do not know unfortunately, but I think it is possible to know if it will be necessary. Need teach AI independently with some periodicity to shoot off light rockets toward of enemy side, on condition that subdivision is fired an enemy, but an enemy is not visible.

By sight a light rocket can be realized like a grenade from a underbarrel grenade launcher, shoot on a ballistic trajectory, attaching a lighting effect to the grenade.

Certainly it is not at all simple to realize in a game the innovation offered by me, sure that is many complications. However and an effect from this new function will be very not weak, in a great deal this idea will change tactic of conduct of nightly battles, toward the increase of their realism.

Maybe much difficult to realize rocket pistols exactly, and more precisely to teach AI it is correct to use them, but even on condition that realizing will be succeeded only artillery lighting ammunitions, an effect is made on gameplay will be very positive.

I think that this idea is actual not only for CMSF but also for a coming project "Normandy'.

Sorry for my poor English.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

I gather what you're trying to say is that not only would "starshells" give the Syrian infantry a chance to see their enemy but also temporarily blind the blue forces infantry that are predominantly wearing NV goggles. Is that what you mean?

Regards

KR

[Alex]

Not necessarily. I doubt that lighting shells being in sky can blind the devices of nightly vision.

[Blackcat]

"Sorry for my poor English", he says. No worries, Alex. Especially when the majority of native English speakers (and I must include the Americans in this), including myself, would struggle to put together two coherent sentences in another language, let alone write a comprehensible, reasoned argument for the introduction of starshell and illuminating flares.

Anyway, I do recall many discussions here of old about the introduction of flares etc.. I am fairly certain the subject was mentioned again when Battlefront announced that CMX2 would have variable lighting. It is a shame for all the reasons stated that, for whatever reason, they didn't make it into he game.

Probably, it is too late now for CMSF, but hopefully illumination rounds and flares will be inluded in Normandy. The complexity of coding the effects of their use should not be underestimated, though.

[Secondbrooks]

Illumination rounds would make game more playable and balanced on night time as well. Problem is how to implement them... I'm quite sure that running illumination-system would require quite big amounts of resources from CPU, same as with trenches which would be visible to side having them, but being invisible to opponent.

Game currently doesn't handle any kind additional light sources by my understandment, so that would be pretty major overhaul to take. I would guess.

EDIT: Blackcat was faster.

[hcrof]

Burning vehicles have their own light source so it is theoretically possible. I would love to see star shells in CMSF - think of all those beautiful screenshots

[Flanker15]

I'm pretty 99% sure it's going in for Normandy.

[Cid250]

This is a "must" for good WWII night combat, even if this feature alone, delays CM Normandy another 6 months.

[Secondbrooks]

Burning vehicles have their own light source so it is theoretically possible. I would love to see star shells in CMSF - think of all those beautiful screenshots

Yeah. Like in most games there is light, but game world doesn't do more than draws that light in screen, it doesn't affect to actual visibility of game world (excluding player who sees that light on his screen)... I admit i wrote it badly. So basically AI/bot/whatever still "sees" darkness even if you point flashlight into his eyes.

Or am i wrong concerning CMSF?

[hcrof]

Well I think that light in a CMSF map is universal for the whole map, even if it does change over time. Given the scale involved, would one lighting mission affect the whole map? I don't know but if it doesn't, you might be right thinking that it may be hard to implement.

[Apocal]

Not necessarily. I doubt that lighting shells being in sky can blind the devices of nightly vision.

They actually can, the whole thing blanks out or whites out when there is too much light. Totally not cool, especially when you are driving.

[Alex]

interestingly, that developers think about it.

[Alex]

Looks like they nothing think about it. Bad, this idea looking good.

[Other Means]

From what I understand it’s not so much the lighting but the effect this has on units and FOW. For example, if a unit is walking past a burning tank they get lit up. How does this affect them being spotted by opposing units – can they now be seen from across the map? If so, should the AI plan to move around the illumination like a human player would?

It’s the law of unintended consequences again.

[Thomm]

Here is a starshell-style ground texture I did for Eric Young's Squad Assault back in the good old days ...

Best regards,

Thomm

[Drescher]

While we might not get it for CMSF, its at least possible for Normandy, this is from WineCape´s Normandy Synopsis post, first page:

I'm pretty sure we'll get artillery illumination. The game is mostly set up to handle it right now. What is needed is the physics of simulating the shell's behavior once it lights up. Wind, height, that sort of thing.

Would be interesting to get a little update, hint hint

[Thomm]

The game is mostly set up to handle it right now.

Agree with respect to the graphical part (even though dynamic lighthing is a very local effect right now).

But does the additional light actually affect spotting in CM:SF 1.20? Somehow I doubt it ...

Best regards,

Thomm

[Sgt Joch]

But does the additional light actually affect spotting in CM:SF 1.20? Somehow I doubt it ...

It has no effect at present, Steve had mentioned that coding would have to be done to allow night illumination to have an effect on spotting. I am also hoping it will be in Normandy.

[Sgt Joch]

If so, should the AI plan to move around the illumination like a human player would?

It’s the law of unintended consequences again.

good point. This might be a situation where it would make more sense if night illumination, other than flares/starshell of course, had no effect on spotting. Otherwise, it would disadvantage the AI. I dont see how you can intelligently code the AI to avoid being illuminated by burning buildings/vehicles.

[Battlefront.com]

Good discussion. Yes, we want illumination missions for artillery and even hand-held flare devices. But as many people have pointed out already, it is not a simple thing to add. Even the lighting effects involve significant new programming to simulate things such as rate of decent and direction based on wind conditions. That's not a ten minute coding experience, that's for sure

But as others have said, having the graphical lighting isn't really all that important. Having the simulated effects of the lighting is. There's a lot of stuff that we need to do for that to work and it's definitely going to happen at some point.

Steve

[Elmar Bijlsma]

All well and good, but tracers bouncing of terrain shouldn't be a problem, right?

[lomir]

Hi,

Somewhat off topic, but a series of images of a rifle round that ricochets off a BTR and describes a perfect mortar-like trajectory. The round even slows down until stopping when goes up and then accelerates until reaching the ground. I've got to take my hat off, Battlefront!

[lomir]