7thGalaxy Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I've noticed in a couple of the campaign battles that my British troops seem to be routing far more than the US troops ever did - which I think is a little odd. usually it's vehicle crew, after their tank/APC has been destroyed. I can't honestly believe that this is realistic - I mean, these are highly trained and motivated soldiers, they are hardly going to just bugger off in the middle of a battle! I can understand them getting pinned, or legging it for the nearest ditch, but going AWOL seems just wrong. I never saw this with the US crew - they tended to stick it out well. Anyone else seen this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Maybe it's a 1.2 thing and US crews will do the same now. Only players with the Brit module have 1.2 so far and there probably hasn't been very much US play by them for comparison. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 why dont you read the 1.20 change log, it says it all right there... EDIT: Vehicle crew morale suffers more when the vehicle receives internal damage. i like it, should have been like that from the beginning 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thGalaxy Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yes, ok, morale suffers, I had read that.. good.. but british troops routing? Showing as missing? Seems a bit much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 hm why not, americans and syrians can rout too. its just a matter of pushing hard enough. i didnt had any westerner rout in ages. when they get out of the vehicles now they are rattled or so and are back in action a minute after, you must have done something special to get em to panic and vanish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thGalaxy Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Well, they were a little exposed, but not too badly supported - not under direct fire I think. I can see untrained Militia routing, but US or Brit troops.. would be so rare as to be extraordinary, surely, and I've had it it happen twice, in situations which were dangerous, but I cant believe trained, veteren troops would rout in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 "Routing" is such an ugly word. I dunno, if I had a tank shot out from under me and clambered away, heart a-pounding, I'd probably look at my comrades and say, "Let's stay out of the infantry's way and go get ourselves a new pair of treads, yeah?" It wouldn't be a "rout" so much as a wise tactical move made while scared pantless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I just think of it as finding the nearest, deepest ditch, and deciding to stay until the noise level drops a bit. In which case they no longer need to occupy cpu cycles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thGalaxy Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 But only 1 out of 4? Either they should all go, or none really. You wouldn't ever get the commander going and the other three just sitting around, which is what I saw earlier, I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm just replaying the original campaign under 1.2 and had a Stryker (with infantry inside) hit by an anti-tank missile. Both crew were killed and the infantry took a couple of casualties; they bailed out and then, over the next five minutes or so, melted away one by one into the Syrian desert... it seemed a little strange, what with four Abrams and their mates between them and the opposition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meade95 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think infantry (US or UK) routing....."gone missing"...is definitely a bit much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 In the British campaign what happens in some scenarios is some units are exhausted from previous battles. This makes them more prone to leaving the vehicle when attacked. You just need to order them back in and all will be fine! - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 When the AAR screen shows Brit soldiers as "missing", I wouldn't necessarily interpret that as meaning they went AWOL like a bunch of deserters or something. Maybe they were so cheesed off with getting nearly blown up they decided their time would be better spent helping to carry a wounded colleague to safety. I've read that in wars through the ages, helping the wounded to the rear was a common way for soldiers to remove themselves from danger without necessarily deserting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I recall that macho Marine in the SciFi movie "Aliens" wigging-out and screaming "We're all gonna DIE, man!" Apparently, you don't need a place to bug-out to in order to bug-out. Huddled and crying in a corner would do just as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I was just playing a US Army scenario and guys went MIA. It's not just Brits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 In the British campaign what happens in some scenarios is some units are exhausted from previous battles. This makes them more prone to leaving the vehicle when attacked. You just need to order them back in and all will be fine! - "Drop that cardboard box and get back in the Spartan, damnit!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnedpuppy Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I generally find that when my troops rout they either run toward the enemy, or into a deadly open field of fire both options usually result in many casualties. Not what would happen in reality, maybe something to do with incorrect definition of friendly map edges in scenarios? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Routing troops do not run. Troops that run are trying to get out of the position you've put them in. The two instances are liable to occur in similar situations which can lead to confusion. If you put troops in a position where there is nowhere to run to then they are likely to get shot up. That should be realistic. If they are shot up and have somewhere to run to that will break contact, that is where they ought to run. If they are running in odd directions then that might be a problem, but it is not a problem that can be addressed unless there is evidence. If it is a reproducible situation then a save game or a map that can demonstrate it would be the way to go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 If they are running in odd directions then that might be a problem, but it is not a problem that can be addressed unless there is evidence. If it is a reproducible situation then a save game or a map that can demonstrate it would be the way to go. There's a map called "House Cleaning" which is an attack on a large hospital building. The pathfinding in the hospital is interesting, to say the least. I played it (with 1.2) the other day and saw a fleeing squad head from the front-right of the hospital (safe) diagonally towards the back-left of the hospital (very very unsafe.) They fled right through the building, straight towards three (or more) spotted enemy squads that were shooting at them, instead of backing out the door they'd just gone in... messy. I think that's the sort of thing skinnedpuppy means, it does happen from time to time. About as galling as those little orange !s. (I guess if the pixeltruppen use an A* algorithm or whatever it's called then assigning squares with bad guys in a high negative value is the thing to do. But I imagine it's more complicated than that!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I can't remember last time I saw one of my troops route. I'm no tactical genius, I just use a lot of smoke and try not to get exposed. To add to what flamingknives was saying, routing troops go to "!" and disappear, troops displacing are trying to find somewhere less dangerous. If that happens to be toward the enemy then c'est la vie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fūrinkazan Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 There are many exemples in history were elite troops routed. The Spartans at the battle of Leuctra, the french Guard at Waterloo and many more in all nations. The fact that they are well trained etc.. Doesn't mean that they will not rout but that they will suffer more before they break. I don't like the system of vanishing soldiers. I miss the old CM 1 system, because you could sometimes take your men back to the fight. This gave more importance to good leaders. I also miss a lot prisoners, and i still hope that maybe we will have those features back. I once took a veteran group of US infantry prisoner in the mist. They were ambushed by two german groups and decided to surrender without a single shot. They were smart enough to see that fighting was a suicide. Somtimes it's better to run away and keep on the fight later than to die in a lost battle. See the Japanese during WW2. Very few prisoners, fighting to death for what result ? I was disappointed by the way troops reacted under fire. Syrians use to die, pinned down on building stupidly. After patch 1.11, i saw something very interesting. One squad was under the fire of a Bradley with 2 men badly wounded and one lightly. 3 men ran away and found cover.They were separated and the others try to rejoin. The first man could but the wounded was killed by the Bradley. He was too slow due to his wound. They reacted like humans trying to survive not like robots in a game. I stopped playing to watch them trying to survive and i was sad when i saw the wounded man killed. For fun i played a QB with four Abrams against Syrians. I was watching BMP's and tanks burning when i made a mistake. While two tanks were in overwatch, the others tried to flank the enemy. One Abrams was hit on the flank with only light damage. The crew (veterans) decide to bail out and to stop listening to my stupid orders for the rest of the battle:D. I really love when things like this happen. In CMBO, i was waiting for US attack near Remagen with Volkssturm conscripts. One mortar shell fell in the middle of the village i was defending and they all started to run away. No dead, no wounded. I took the manual to find the command "execute the traitors" but i could not find it:D. I was able to bring them back to fight after a few minutes. In fact they escaped the artillery preparation and would suffer heavy losses if they had obey my orders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnedpuppy Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 To clarify here’s an example of my troops “running” into enemy fire British Section occupying the bottom floor of a multi story building start taking incoming fire (from the front) eventually the weight of fire proves to much and they bug out (which in mind is a rout since at this stage I have no control over them). Now the building has two doors one in the front (toward fire) and one in the rear. Which door do they take? In my experience the front one and get massacred, now this doesn’t happen every time but often enough that I have noticed, and shouted my frustration at the buggers From what I remember this happened in CMX1 when the friendly map edges were incorrectly defined in the scenario, hence my earlier suggestion. Anyone else have experience with this? Next time it happens I’ll post screenshots and make a save available so people can look into it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thGalaxy Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 There are many exemples in history were elite troops routed. The Spartans at the battle of Leuctra, the french Guard at Waterloo and many more in all nations. The fact that they are well trained etc.. Doesn't mean that they will not rout but that they will suffer more before they break. Right.. but what have the Spartans and the French Guard got to do with anything? Their training was far less exhaustive than the modern British/US Army. Highly motervated, trained troops should not just be disappearing from the battlefield on a whim! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 ah, I think you'll find the reason they're voluntarily absenting themselves from the battlefield is a little more than a 'whim' I had one leave me in a recent battle. The wagon he was in got smoked by an ATGM, several people on board were killed and a number of the remainder wounded. Of those that made it out, everyone was badly shaken for several turns. Most of them pulled themselves together, but one poor bloke didn't or couldn't, and disappeared in a puff of "!" I put it down to shellshock and imagine him sitting in a ditch at the side of the road, sobbing, curled up in a ball with **** trickling down his leg. And, to be honest, in the circumstances I can't say I blame him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satan Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hi 7th yes iv'e had that too! I'v raised it - see second post of mine of this thread http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=88113 regs Satan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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