Sivodsi Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Just to update this thread - thanks for the update of the Hasrabit campaign, PT! It means I get to start all over again. Damn:D damn:D damn:D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 "d F-15s don't seem to do anything except overfly the battlezone. Otherwise aircraft are just fine. The trouble is that there are, as yet, no realistic rules for handling Red air power." Just ran a test with F15s under AI control. They worked just fine. I have noticed though, that sometimes it seems that aircraft are unable to acquire a target and will buzz about without attacking. It has happened to me once or twice and retargeting seems to solve the problem. Not sure if this is intentional or not. I am running some tests right now to see if I can get a rough loadout for each aircraft. I hope to post something soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkompetent Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Heh. Also one interesting thing that happened to me that never has happened before to me (might just been that I haven't seen it) was that I ordered mortar fire on dug in enemies in the 2nd mission with my company commander. The spotting rounds dropped a bit too far away in my opinion. Actually much closer to me than the enemy. After the third spotting round has impacted I hear 'Fire for Effect' and I start wondering what they are up to, since being that far from the target there is no way that they can adjust the fire mission properly by triangulating from the mortar impacts. Said and done - I start getting a heavy rain of 60mm shells straight onto my own position that is 250-300 meters from the target and orders cease fire in panic, but before the mortar rain stops I've lost half a squad of infantry, one SMAW-team and one M240-team to air burst shells. Quite nice to see BLU-on-BLU fire, even by improperly directed fire support. I hope it wasn't a bug, but that it's actually a feature with that some people suck at directing artillery and can get it a bit wrong from time to time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 That is interesting. I saw the AI nuke his own position once. If you haven't noticed, the AI uses rather large footprints for most of his calls for fire, although he does use point targets sometimes. I was watching the AI call fire on my defensive position from a 7 storey building on the other side of the map. Suddenly the building exploded. I immediately ceased fire and clicked on the surviving FO and noticed that the edge of his fire area covered about half the building he was in. Oops! I haven't seen what you describe happen though. If it is a worst case possibility then that is indeed a pretty realistic feature. If it keeps happening then let us know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I created a Blue vs. Blue Scenario with Army (Blue, AI) and Marines (Red, Player). The Blue AI called in Artillery Strikes on the Marines frequently, although it did not seem to start until around halfway through the Scenario. However, I was able to hear the Blue AI, FO conversation with the Artillery Controller every time a new artillery mission happened. The Marines did not have any Artillery or CAS called in, so the conversation wasn't generated from the Players side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Maybe since both sides were technically BLUE they were on the same net. Another thing to look at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I just looked around the map after the finish of a scenario and noticed that enemy Red HQ units were calling in artillery missions against my troops. I can't find anything in the 1.10 readme or the Marines manual. Unless I'm missing something I'm pretty sure only FO's could call in arty before 1.10. Can someone confirm this change? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Were they Special Forces HQs? They get to call arty too. This was indeed changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 This screenshot was just taken. It shows a Syrian SF platoon leader denied access to Artillery support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntarr Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Without seeing a save the only thing I immediately see is that the unit is out of C2. Suggestion, run a turn with the unit not moving and see if the unit regains C2 or send me the save and I'll look at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 No save file, it was a QB and it was the only SF unit on the map. I set everything to random and play with what I get. It had no upper echelon to be in C2 with. I will try again with a SF only scenario and see what happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Here you go, more screenshots. I will save the game and email you the file. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 A quick test of both Syrian SF and Airborne Infantry companies reveals that both come with FO's and 82mm Mortars. FO's remain the only unit that can call in an arty strike. Is it possible that Syrian forces under AI control very well may call in arty without an FO? I have not investigated it so if somebody has a save file that demonstrates it please do send it. It would be valuable for discussion purposes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I can send a save from the Marines campaign mission 'Milk Run' to somebody if they want, it definately shows HQ units one Mech one SF using arty. Just need to call a cease fire then click on the units to see what their up to. It just takes time for me to send it as I can only get dial-up where I live so tell me if this is of use to anyone before I try to send. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Currently playing a PBEM battle, Syrian side. I have 122mm howitzers, and a happy little FO to call them in. I see a nice patch of open ground where I think my opponent is likely to be in a few minutes time, so I call in a strike, sort everything out, chose the mission to start immediately and.... 20 minute delay!?!oneone! Arty with a 20 minute delay is indistinguishable from no arty at all IMHO. The only conceivable use for that would be a pre-planned barrage (I'm assuming that you can do zero-delay prep bombardments like in CMx1, although I haven't checked). Can that possibly be right? 20 minutes from plotting the mission until the first shells fall? Surely that's some kind of bug. I mention it here, because it may have something to do with the Syrian FO arty usage by the AI - if they sometimes have to wait 20 damn minutes before anything happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 What is the quality of the FO? And what sort of arty is it? Usually the larger calibre stuff takes alot longer. Syrians always seem to have a disadvantage in this respect possibly to reflect their poorer comunications systems? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 I've been doing a lot of work with this new AI artillery system and it's proving VERY HARD to get the AI to use it during a mission. I have read somewhere that the AI won't start using it's artillery until roughly half way through the scenario. Since I have lined my guys up in plain sight of an AI FOS in the early stages of a mission to bring it on with no result this certainly seems to be the case. So this begs the question, WHY??? :confused: For me, it's the first half of the battle where I'm likely to be careless as I'm setting up support positions and probing for enemy positions. I really can't understand the reason for thie decision. If I want the AI to have artillery to use exclusively in the second half of the mission then I'll add it as a reinforcement. Please BFC, undo this with the next patch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 What is the quality of the FO? And what sort of arty is it? Usually the larger calibre stuff takes alot longer. Syrians always seem to have a disadvantage in this respect possibly to reflect their poorer comunications systems? Regular quality FO. The rest of my guys are Syrian special forces, so I assume they are from a special forces TO&E. Arty is 122mm, I believe it is a 2S1 M-1974 Gvodzika self-propelled howitzer. This, admittedly, has a pretty slow rate of fire. But 20 minutes is still damn slow. The FO is walking back there to point out the targets in person? Right or wrong, it might also explain the observation re the AI being unwilling to use arty sometimes though - it's trying to use it, but the shells ain't landing 'till some time next week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yup, played a 40minute QB and the AI shells started landing in a corner of the map miles away from anything in the last minute of the battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Seems like the AI needs longer battles to get it's act together with using arty, if you've played the 'Milk Run' mission in the Marines campaign you get constantly bombarded with accurate fire for the last hour of the scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Actually, what we've done is make the AI more prone to using artillery sooner. You'll see this in v1.11. The logic that the AI uses is that the longer it waits for the enemy to show itself, and become committed, the more effective its artillery is. Generally speaking this is true, however we Human players can sense the exceptions and act on that. The AI isn't that "smart" so it's more cautious. However, I think we all agree that it is a bit too cautious so we've tweaked it some. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Good to hear, Steve. Any time scale on 1.11? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Steve, Any explaination on why the AI can use Syrian HQ's as spotters while in all the missions I've played only the FO can call arty for the human player? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 In the Campaign mission (dont know the name) with objective 'Pooh', the AI placed my spotters on the left hill under Heavy air burst fire. That really, really hurt! (20+ KIA, all scout snipers, FO's and HQ's ). I was convinced it didn't see them since no ATGM or MG fire was given on this position. That Syrian FO is a sneaky bastard ! I think it was about 40 minutes into the scenario, which takes 2 hours IIRC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 In the Campaign mission (dont know the name) with objective 'Pooh', the AI placed my spotters on the left hill under Heavy air burst fire. That really, really hurt! (20+ KIA, all scout snipers, FO's and HQ's ). I was convinced it didn't see them since no ATGM or MG fire was given on this position. That Syrian FO is a sneaky bastard ! I think it was about 40 minutes into the scenario, which takes 2 hours IIRC. You must have missed the five minutes of spotting rounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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