Moon Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 The following article is a translation of some materials available on the Russian developer website, and explains some aspects of the in-game damage model and ballistics engine for the intermediate user. Components of a Unit Theatre of War models the actual historical designs of Second World War military equipment and vehicles. In particular, this means that the location of the various components of each unit corresponds with historical data and schematics. These components include, among other things, engine parts and other crucial systems, various equipment, crew member location and ammo storage. Each unit has external (visible) and internal (invisible) components. For example, a tank turret or a car wheel are external components. The engine is an internal component. The same applies to crew members – the gunner of an anti-tank gun is an external object, while the driver of a tank is internal. Each unit in the game has its own unique component layout, which is taken into consideration during damage calculations after a hit. Some components, including internal components, may be armored. Each component can be damaged separately of the others. For example, a tank with a damaged turret can keep shooting its machinegun, or an armored vehicle with damaged wheels cannot move but can keepfiring its weapons. Damage components are indicated in the unit info panel when you mouse-over a unit. Some external components can be blown off after a hit. A good example: Some units feature an additional thin armored shield (called “skirt”). While thin it is sufficient to defend once against hollow charge and high-explosive shells. Example: a 75-mm hollow charge shell is going to hit the side of this tank in a moment… After the smoke clears, the only damage done is the loss of one part of the skirt… But the second direct hit at the same location is fatal… Ballistics Each type of shell is fired with its unique speeds (muzzle velocity). Many factors (mainly aerodynamics) influence a shell in flight, causing it to lose speed and consequently, kinetic energy. As a result, the armor-piercing ability of kinetic shells (but not hollow charge shells) decreases with increasing distance. Some shell types (usually solid shot) have especially high muzzle velocity and/or a high mass and can simply penetrate weak armored objects by sheer force, sometimes even penetrate multiple targets in line. Normally however a shell is losing the bulk of its kinetic energy after one penetrating hit. High-explosive fragmentation shells can also penetrate thin armor, depending mostly on the mass of the explosive filling inside the shell. If a shell manages to penetrate, various internal components – crew, gun, engine etc. – can be seriously damaged or destroyed. Various types of damage are modelled: shrapnel from an exploding shell, blast damage, kinetic damage. The damage system also tracks direct hits into a component (crew member, equipment, systems) inside a target after a penetrating hit. Usually this type of hit results in the immediate destruction of the component. The damage volume depends on the are of the hit, the internal structure of the vehicle, and the impact force. Some components may suffer no damage at all. After a successful hit, depending on the damaged location (for example the engine or fuel tanks) vehicles can catch fire, and a direct hit in the ammo compartment usually leads to a detonation. Armor penetration When a shell hits a vehicle, the damage system calculates the armor thickness at the impact point and compares it to the armor penetration capability of the shell. If the shell’s penetration capability is not sufficient to penetrate the armor, no penetration damage is done. However, if the shell contains an explosive filling, the detonation can still possibly damage the tank and any objects (including soldiers) nearby. The damage system takes into account a number of factors when defining the thickness of the penetrated armor. The first factor is the distance to the target; usually (except for hollow charge shells), the longer the distance, the lower penetration capability. The second factor – the impact angle of the shell - is also of great importance. This angle depends on two factors: the relative position of the weapon and the target (the best results are obtained when the angle between them approximates 90 degrees), and structural features of the target vehicle. Some tanks and self-propelled guns, for example T-34, “Panther”, or “Hetzer” have armored plates with considerable slopes. So if the shell hits the armor at an angle, the path of the shell through the armor is extended, and the effective armor thickness increased. When a shell hits at extreme angles, it can also ricochet without inflicting any damage. Different shell types ricochet at different angles, with AP and APHE being most prone to ricochets. In order to cause a ricochet however, the armor must be thick enough – a 152mm shell will not ricochet off a mere 20mm of armor. Certain shell types such as APC, APBC, APHEBC, or APCBC feature ballistic caps which make the shell turn a little bit perpendicularly to the armor upon impact, negating the effect of angled armor to some extent. These shell types are better against angled armor plates than non-capped ammunition. Some shells, especially blunt-nosed and sub-caliber shells, can break apart at certain hit angles without doing any damage to the target. Hollow charge shells, which do not rely solely on kinetic energy to penetrate a target, are not prone to such effects. [ May 03, 2007, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Moon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks for the article Moon, a good read. I'm sure most will appreciate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Do soldiers also have internal components? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Yeah, after all tankers have to pee! They need to get out of those things sooner or later. And my snipers will be waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettenhund Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Does the engine also calculate horizontal amor angles, or only vertical amor slopes/angles? For example, a tiger 1 tank have turned the hull 25-35 degree towards to the enemy in "Mahlzeit" position. Is this also be calculeted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Originally posted by Kettenhund: Does the engine also calculate horizontal amor angles, or only vertical amor slopes/angles? Yes it does horizontal calculations as well as vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Originally posted by Rollstoy: Do soldiers also have internal components? No, soldiers do not have internal components. The head hit does the same damage as the body hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlock Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Originally posted by SIO: Yes it does horizontal calculations as well as vertical. Very impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettenhund Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 @SIO Many thank for you fast an precise answer. That is very nice, now you must only fix that "hold position" button in associating with "dont turn hull". And then we can play the Tiger1 as in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 It seems very hard to get a clear answer to this. I think we might have a language barrier here: the vertical angle, does that include the angle at which the plate is mounted ,e.g. Panther upper hull at 55 degrees? (as opposed to just the vehicle positions making a vertical angle) [ May 04, 2007, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnN Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Originally posted by SIO: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kettenhund: Does the engine also calculate horizontal amor angles, or only vertical amor slopes/angles? Yes it does horizontal calculations as well as vertical. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Well, they certainly can use the 3D model's plate angle, but the question is whether they actually do. It must be possible to get a straight yes or no out of somebody [ May 04, 2007, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanss Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I notice in the screenshots that there are some colored bars under the soldierfaces, something from the new Ûber patch maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikoyanPT Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Got to love the damage and balistics sistem. It is one of the things that makes the game unique. And that HEAT rounds are killers at close range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Originally posted by chanss: I notice in the screenshots that there are some colored bars under the soldierfaces, something from the new Ûber patch maybe? Actually, its the other way around. Appears those screenshots were taken with an older version of the game that used to use colored bars to show infantry-crew health instead of the current text label system. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoaN Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Originally posted by Redwolf: Well, they certainly can use the 3D model's plate angle, but the question is whether they actually do. It must be possible to get a straight yes or no out of somebody Straight yes. We do use 3D model's plate angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Redwolf, you might also be interested to dissect the Shells and projectiles article I just posted (sticky on top of Tactics forum) Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Thanks, guys. Good to know you actually use the 3D model. Must be good for something, right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker15 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I was wondering, you can damage and destroy components but what factors lead to a tank going into a "knocked out" state? You know when you hit a tank and the crew bail out, it is removed from the selectable units and a crater appears under it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 In short, damage accumulation. For example, repeated hits into already disabled turret will eventually shatter and destroy internal components (including crew). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeltiCid Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 SPANISH TRANSLATION COMPONENTES DE UNA UNIDAD Theatre of War modela los diseños históricos de vehículos y material militar de la Segunda Guerra Mundial. Esto significa que los componentes particulares de cada unidad se corresponden con datos históricos y esquemáticos. Esos componentes incluyen, además de otras cosas, partes motoras y otros sistemas cruciales, equipo vario, tripulación y depósitos de munición. Cada unidad tiene componentes externos (visibles) e internos (invisibles). Por ejemplo, la torreta de un tanque o las ruedas de un coche son componentes externos. El motor es un componente interno. Lo mismo se aplica para la tripulación – el artillero de un cañon antitanque es un objeto externo, mientras que el conductor de un camión lo es interno. Cada unidad en el juego tiene su propio y único componente de diseño, lo cual se tiene en consideración durante los cálculos del daño tras un impacto. Algunso componentes, incluyendo los internos, pueden ser blindados. Cada componente puede ser dañado de manera independiente a los demás. Por ejemplo, un tanque con la torreta dañada puede seguir disparando su metralleta, o un vehículo armado con las ruedas dañadas no se puede mover, pero puede seguir disparando sus armas. Los componentes dañados se indican en el panel de información de la unidad cuando pones el cursor del ratón sobre él. Algunos components externos pueden ser lanzados fuera tras un impacto. Un buen ejemplo: algunas unidades disponen de una armadura ligera adicional, llamada faldilla o “skirt”. Tal blindaje ligero es suficiente para proteger contra cargas huecas y municiómn explosiva HE. Ejemplo: un proyectil de carga hueva va a golpear el latera de este tanque Tras disiparse el humo, el único daño apreciable es la pérdida de una parte de la falda “skirt” Pero el Segundo impacto directo en el mismo lugar es fatal… BALLISTICA Cada tipo de proyectil es disparado con su velocidad única (muzzle velocity). Muchos factores (mayoritariamente aerodinámicos) influencian a un proyectil en vuelo, causando la pérdida de velocidad y consecuentemente, velocidad cinética. Como resultado, la bilidad para perforar blindaje de proyectiles cinéticos (que no los de carga hueca) disminuye según aumenta la distancia. Algunos tipos de proyectiles tienen específicamente alta velocidad y densidad de masa y pueden con sencillez penetrar objetos débilmente armados por inercia, incluso penetrar varios objetos en línea. Sin embargo, normalmente un proyectil pierde la mayor patrte de su energía cinética tras el primer impacto penetrador. Proyectiles de fragmentación altamente explosivos pueden también penetrar blindaje ligero, gracias mayoritariemante al contenido explosive dentro del proyectil. Si un proyectil logra penetrar, varios componentes internos (tripulación, cañon, motor, etc…) pueden ser seriamente dañados o destruídos. Varios tipos de daños han sido modelados: Metralla de la explosión del proyectil, daños provocados por la explosión, cinética de los daños, etc.. El sistema de daño además registra impactos directos contra un componente dentro del objetivo tras penetrarlo (tripulación, equipamientos y sistemas). Normalmente este tipo de daño causa la total e inmediata destrucción del componente. El tamaño del daño depende del lugar del impacto, la estructura interna del vehículo y la fuerza del impacto. Algunos components pueden no sufrir daño alguno. Tras un impacto , dependiendo del lugar del daño (motor o tanques de gasolina) los vehículos pueden arder, y un impacto directo en el compartimento de la munición normalmente llevan a la detonación. Penetración en blindaje Cuando un proyectil impacta un vehículo, el sistema de daños calcula la capacidad defensiva del blindaje en el punto de impacto y la compara con la capacidad de penetración del mismo. Si la capacidad de penetración del proyectil no es suficiente para penetrar el blindaje, no se consigue daño. Sin embargo, si el proyectil contiene material explosivo, la detonación puede dañar al tanque y a los objetos cercanos (incluyendo soldados) El sistema de daños tiene en cuenta diversos factores cuando calcula la capacidad del blindaje. El primer factor es la distancia al objetivo. Normalmente (excepto para las cargas huecas) a mayor distancia, menor capacidad de penetración. El segundo factor, y de gran importancia: el ángulo de incidencia del proyectil sobre el blindaje. Este ángulo depende de dos factores: la posición relatica del arma y el objetivo (los mejores resultados se obtienen cuando el ángulo entre ambos es de aproximadamente 90 grados), y las características estructurales del vehículo objetivo. Algunos tanques y cañones autopropulsados, por ejemplo el T-34, el Panther o el Hetzer, tienen partes de su blindaje con inclinaciones. Por lo tanto, si el proyectil impacta en un blindaje inclinado, el camino sobre la armadura aumenta, y la defensa del blindaje aumenta. Cuando el proyectil impacta en ángulo grandes, puede rebotar sin causar ningún tipo de daño. Diferentes tipos de proyectiles rebotan a diferentes ángulos, siendo AP y APHE los más propensos a ello. Para causar un rebote, sin embargo, un blindaje debe ser lo suficientemente ancho para ello – un proyectil de 152mm no va a rebotar sobre un blindaje de 20mm Algunos tipos de proyectil como APC, APBC, APHEBC o APCBC tiene la característica de hacer girar perpendicularmente un poco al proyectil a la hora del impacto, negando en cierta medida el efecto de blindaje inclinado. Este tipo de proyectiles son, por ello, mejor contra blindaje inclinado. Algunos proyectiles, especialmente los de hocico burdo (blunt-nosed) se pueden resquebrajar al impactar en ciertos ángulos y no conseguir absolutamente ningún daño al objetivo. Proyectiles de carga hueca, los cuales no se basan en la energia cinética para penetrar al objetivo, no son propensos a tales efectos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel B. Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I have a question. Does the game engine handles deflection due to plate slopiness?? Does it take into account this effect? I don't mean ricochet btw... Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Deflection, but not ricochet? What do you mean, i don't quite understand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel B. Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Never mind. I think it's a matter of semantics I've re-read the explanation and it's about the same thing. Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timber Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Hello Moon I was wondering do you have the penetration performance figures for the different guns in the game ? If so I'd really appreciate you posting them Many thanks in advance, Timber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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