May 22nd Update on Game Patch

[Von Fauster]

Madmatt. Thanks for the update! Sounds like 1C is on top of it too. Salute!

[Barrabas]

Hi! Well done!

Will all battles still be fought to the last man? Are there any plans of introducing a retreat/end battle/concede victory option (button)?

[Directive#21]

The LOS tool would take TOW a step back as far as realism goes. It's a lot more realistic to hit ENTER and see what your units can see than to use a LOS tool. On top of that once you order a unit to fire they will tell you if they don't have a clear LOS.

I don't completely disagree. I have no problem determining LOS in ToW.

The problem I do have is determining Line of Fire... and I've lost many tanks by miscalculating in this regard.

It was my understanding that there would be some LOS/LOF tool added patched in.

Also, there was mention of improving cover for infantry.

Any status on these issues?

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Madmatt:

Hey guys, are promised before, I am going to try and keep everyone up to date on where things stand...

[...]

...Okay, so thats where we are right now. As I get more details, I will of course enlighten you all.

Madmatt

That is an outstanding update, thanks again.

[todorp]

Fantastic news! Great support! Keep the good work! I'll put a good word for you.

I am emailng you to apply for a beta tester.

[FinnN]

The LOS tool would take TOW a step back as far as realism goes. It's a lot more realistic to hit ENTER and see what your units can see than to use a LOS tool. On top of that once you order a unit to fire they will tell you if they don't have a clear LOS.

I'm afraid I disagree. I regard myself as reasonably adept at sneaking around now and I can tell when my units are going to be hidden or not. ENTER view is good for checking things like cresting hills etc but useless for anything else. Stick a unit in a bush and you can be spotted (but usually it takes a bit longer than if you were in the open). Stick a unit behind a bush and you can still be spotted but it seems to be a bit safer. Stick a unit in a bush behind another bush and you seem to be fairly safe. In all cases on screen you are faced by a wall of green - throw in that grass has no effect and that I suspect that the empty areas around tree trunks underneath the canopy provide some cover too and really ENTER view is no help at all. In fact my best advice is to use ENTER view for checking terrain, but for anything else you're better off gauging it from high above the battlefield a la Close Combat. Then what about dead zones? How can I tell if my Nashorn is in a position where it can fire from an ambush position? Currently impossible except very roughly, and as the AI wont tweak its position (it'll either stay rooted to the spot or go off wandering altogether) you're left with a very real possibility that your carefully positioned ambush isn't going to work until several reloads and trial and error tells you where it'll actually open fire.

A LOS tool would dramatically reduce the learning curve for this game and probably eliminate some of the myths floating around (eg transparent bushes) as well as giving some feedback in cases where you think you should be able to shoot but can't (dead zones being a particular nuisance) where currently there's no game feedback at all (which isn't very realistic).

Have fun

Finn

[nachinus]

I think that FinnN explained perfectly the point of a LOS tool in TOW.

I've read a thread in which a guy shows clearly with screenshots that ENTER view doesnt really depict what the game mechanics use to calculate LOS. In one of the screens all you could see was the green wall of a tree's foliage, but the icon of a spotted tank was behind it. If I would have used ENTER view when deploying his units in that spot, I would have determined that angle was a dead zone, and would have been very suprised when once playing, I would have had visual contact with the enemy (and viceversa) in that area.

The gfx that we see in the game and the information that they give us are not exactly the information that the engine uses to calculate LOS and LOF. So I'm absolutely sure that this game would greatly benefit from a LOS tool.

[crowbar]

Ive only just got the game - and must admit my current pc spec is only just coping when it gets busy on a mission - the pause key certainly gets essential and los judgement with the cameras ideosyncracies is a chore rather than fun

there are some bits Im finding a shame though - with the textures and models being good quality the camera angle and view when you centre on a unit (enter key)to my mind seems wrong. Rather than being so close all the texture detail gets blown too large and the similar perspective issues between camera and model - does anyone else think the view ought to be above / behind the vehicle showing it in the landscape as well as its view

[Edgge]

crowbar

I agree with you. I don't use 1st person view (Enter key) very often. However, this issue is mostly a matter of taste. The best games provide various interface ways to accomplish tasks so more gamers can find a method that suits them.

I play a lot of RPGs and for years it seemed each game had some interface features I liked but no single game had them all. Then I played Guild Wars and was surprised at the incredible flexibility. The interface was so flexible, after playing a short while and turning on/off various options I found the game extremely user friendly. The best games provide a large number of configuable features so each gamer can customize his/her experience.

IMHO games are not really realistic and to talk about a feature being realistic is mostly a matter of taste. The key to a game's emjoyment is not realism but the percieved experience. Does it allow you to use realistic tactics and still be fun is what I look for in a WWII game.

And I always remind myself, it's just a game.

[Guest lmgroth]

I like using the 1st person view on tanks to help gauge when the tank has just crested a hill enough to achieve a hull-down position. When the enemy just comes into view I click STOP. Once the fire order is issued you have to wait to be sure the unit is not having LOF issues... if so you might have to advance a few more meters. Then I enjoy the show.

If needed, I detach and jump back a few meters and set the REVERSE command to get him back to safety.

[KiloAlpha4]

I love you

[KiloAlpha4]

oh could you please add to the patch the ability to give armored half tracks and armored cars a rotate command. Why you can't and it's disabled is beside me.Also the ability to use captured vehicles and equipment normally would be nice since they are not useable in the next mission of any campaign.

[SlapHappy]

I've been on the back side of slopes and gotten the bright red "spotting" icon for a vehicle that appeared below the top of the slope. So if I can "spot" the vehicle, why does it not appear on the screen? And yes, I understand the difference between LOS and LOF, but I was under the impression the bright red icon meant your unit had adequate LOF.

Therefore, I've kinda come to the conclusion that using the "enter" view is not necessarily any better than not, if I have to rely on the red unit icons for real LOS indication.

[Reichenberg]

Originally posted by SlapHappy:

...but I was under the impression the bright red icon meant your unit had adequate LOF...

SlapHappy, the bright red icon means just that your unit has a LOS to the target. LOF is not visualised to the player. The opaque icon means that your selected unit can not see the enemy, but another one of your units can.

Uwe

[Sivodsi]

gReat! I'm not going to play until the patch arrives. I get pretty frustrated with this game, so just as well it is a pretty game.

[Cincinatvs]

Can we have a new update on the Patch status as we are two days before the end of the month?

[monkeezgob]

Cutting it fine to get it out by the end of the month!

[Kamikaze1111]

Two Weeks . . . Be Sure

[someone]

The LOS tool would take TOW a step back as far as realism goes. It's a lot more realistic to hit ENTER and see what your units can see than to use a LOS tool.

Maybe, but when you have so many units to manage it would be less tedious if you just knew what they could see.

[Oudy]

While I probably won't use the Line of Sight tool while playing, it will be very useful for making missions. The mission builder can then see what the line of sight is for placing units. It will make this aspect of mission building easier.

Oudy

[Kamikaze1111]

Agreed with Oudy's point. Having a tool like this for Mission Building would be helpful!

[Thomm]

Did anybody mention (texture) marks for non-penetrating hits?

I kinda miss an indication of those!

Best regards,

Thomm

[KiloAlpha4]

Two Weeks . . . Be Sure

Lol I hope it's out in 2 weeks, want to make campaigns that are not a up hill battle all the way to berlin, or moscow or paris or... didn't know europe was one big hill in whatever direction you go myself maybe Rommel lost because the desert was one huge hill upward toward wherever the British were heh.

Speaking of which, release tools to allow us to change textures and have some desert campaigns..thanks. Why there is no desert combat/campaign in tow I have no idea.

[ June 01, 2007, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: KiloAlpha4 ]

[Pandur]

oh could you please add to the patch the ability to give armored half tracks and armored cars a rotate command. Why you can't and it's disabled is beside me.

hm, becouse they are cars(and have weels!)!?

they cant turn on spot so the rotate command is disabled. imagine the 8 Rad Karre turning on spot!?

[Pandur]

after browsing 1C´s site a bit i found this list.

its what 1C means that this patch does.

(bablefish)

Second edition

Corrections

The outfit of the armies of the different countries is corrected.

Is changed the motion of the technology, which ignores obstacles.

Infantry scatters before the moving technology.

The system of the titles of the armies of the different countries is changed.

Is added the detonation of fragmentation and antitank grenades both on the time and impact.

Physics of thrust and rebound of hand grenades is added.

Physics of the ricochet of projectiles is added.

Is added the automatic transplantation of personnel in the technology, which is produced taking into account of habits and current tasks.

The use of the seized technology only by well trained soldiers is added.

The use of technology and armament only by trained soldiers is added.

Shooting short and long bursts from the automatic weapon on the different distances is added.

Heavy artillery support is added.

Mortars in the form of the caused support are added.

The initial zones of the arrangement of army are increased.

The speed of the movement of infantry is changed.

The motion of infantry for different surfaces under the different weather conditions is changed.

Is introduced the parameter the "fatigue" of infantrymen during the motion.

Is increased a quantity of infantry, which participates in combat.

Are added physics of the motion of technology, use of transfers, peregazovki, etc.

The levelling off of the speed of technology in the formations is added.

The neighbor collisions of infantry are added.

The indicator of sniper and tanker is added.

The behavior of aircraft during the battle is changed.

The range of visibility is increased.

Is changed aiming system, which depends on the visibility of purpose, its motion, conducting by the purpose of fire.

The behavior of infantry in the entrenchments is improved

The times of transplantations are increased.

Selection system of purposes is changed (sectorial).

The reaction time to the commands is changed.

The dynamics of camera is changed.

Is increased duration it is combat.

The indicator of the invisibility of purposes for the concrete combat unit is added.

Is changed the influence of firing on the infantry, which now is concealed or leaves from under the fire of enemy.

Infantry can use garnets at its discretion.

Infantry obtained the limited initiative: taking a firing position, shelter from the fire of enemy, the selection of priority purpose, sektornost' of visibility.

Are corrected the errors, connected with the dimensions of technology.

The model of the damage of technology is improved.

The model of damage to artillery is improved.

The model of an injury of infantry is improved.

The angle of visibilitys and selection of priority purposes are introduced.

Reaction to the enemy is improved.

Missions and campaigns are improved.

The behavior of the crew of technology is improved.

The behavior of artillery calculation is improved.

Is introduced the parameter "contusion" for the people.

The time of the transplantation of crew in the technology is changed.

The time of the disappearance of the killed terms is considerably increased

Crew from the technology.

The system of passage from mission to the mission of infantry departments and crews is changed.

Is improved the dependence of the motion of technology on the habit "driver".

Is improved the dependence of delivery of fire from the instruments and the machine guns on the habit "spotter".

Errors in the recharge of instruments are corrected.

Is introduced shooting on the move, accessible to crews with the high habits.

The times of artillery and avia of supports are increased.

The system of ranging along the fixed target is improved.

The heavy bombers (are instead of introduced mortars) are removed.

The action of explosive, armor-piercing, subcaliber and shaped-charge shells is improved.

The armor-piercing ability of projectiles is improved.

The action of splinters on the infantry in the entrenchments is improved.

The action of commander on survey and morals of crew or crew is increased.

Changes in play maps are introduced.

The system of the search for way is improved.

Errors in the values of armor of technology are corrected.

The parameter "probability" in TTKH of instrument is substituted to the parameter "close grouping".

Is changed the structure of artillery, which leads to her breakdown with the entry of projectile.

Is corrected the behavior of infantry and technology in the commands "Sturm", "attack" and "retreat".

The armament of infantry is changed.

The composition of the ammunition stowage of technology is changed.

The complexity of missions is changed.

Revised texts in the encyclopedia.

Is increased the cost of raising habit "intelligence officer".

Vocal commands in the game are improved.

Reconnaissance aircraft are added.

Ammunition of infantry is changed.

The effects of tracers are changed.

Is changed formation on silence, now this is the "free" formation

Visibility through the trees and the bushes is corrected.

The normalization of projectiles and their destruction is introduced.

The nonlinear dependence of probability of hit on the purpose on its distance is introduced.

Changes in the names of technology and instruments are introduced.

Changes in the names of projectiles are introduced.

Is added button "to select better weapon and cartridges".

The system of the visibility is altered: the influence of weather conditions, the influence of entrenchments, the realistic visibility of yunitov according to reference data, is realized the poor visibility of yunitov through the bushes and the trees, the indication of enemy yunitov in the indirect visibility - transparent ikonki.

The optimization of effects is produced.

Passage into the following mission after loss is permitted.

Upon the command the "motion" of tanki/samokhodki destroy the obstacles.

now i wonder, some of these things are said to be in the english version allready. some not.

whats going on!?