sonar Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Just thinking,cmc is taking as long to make as the war on the eastern front took to fight.How many years has it been now? is it four? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Yeah but they had more manpower 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Hitler had better Beta testers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 It is unfortunate this couldnt have been released before CMSF as I think the demand for it will go down greatly. I still plan on buying it just to support Hunter for at least trying, but I doubt sales will be as strong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheer Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I will buy this regardless. This is the holy grail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sross Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 I'd think that CMC will probably outsell CMSF. I know I will buy CMSF mainly to support BF, but it won't get the play time that the older CMAK and CMBB will still get. Once there are a couple modules it will probably step up play time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Sross posted: I'd think that CMC will probably outsell CMSF wow, are you kidding? That is some kind of optimism when you consider that: - you can only play this game if you already have CMBB, and I'm sure the number of CMBB players is declining; - this game still requires gameplay in CMBB which is how many years old? - the graphics of both games are so far below what is required to attract new customers - limited appeal of the idea of the game to the general gaming population (control an army of PIVs across Russia, or a platoon of Abrams in Syria?) and perhaps the killer: - there are no Americans in CMBB CMSF OTOH has the shiny appeal of the new, new graphics, game engine, new situation... and Americans! Don't get me wrong, CMC is a worthy venture and I will snap it up when/if it ever comes out. But anybody who thinks that its going to be a genre beating bestseller (as CMSF has the potential to be), is deluding themselves. This game is for a limited population of CM playing WW2 buffs only. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sross Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 You are probably right. I just let my emotions get the best of me. ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Very understandable! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Wittman Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Originally posted by Sivodsi: Sross posted: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I'd think that CMC will probably outsell CMSF wow, are you kidding? That is some kind of optimism when you consider that: - you can only play this game if you already have CMBB, and I'm sure the number of CMBB players is declining; - this game still requires gameplay in CMBB which is how many years old? - the graphics of both games are so far below what is required to attract new customers - limited appeal of the idea of the game to the general gaming population (control an army of PIVs across Russia, or a platoon of Abrams in Syria?) and perhaps the killer: - there are no Americans in CMBB CMSF OTOH has the shiny appeal of the new, new graphics, game engine, new situation... and Americans! Don't get me wrong, CMC is a worthy venture and I will snap it up when/if it ever comes out. But anybody who thinks that its going to be a genre beating bestseller (as CMSF has the potential to be), is deluding themselves. This game is for a limited population of CM playing WW2 buffs only. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Originally posted by sonar: Just thinking,cmc is taking as long to make as the war on the eastern front took to fight.How many years has it been now? is it four? Didn't you know? CMC is now designed to simulate the ENTIRE Eastern Front at CM scale! Every game takes four years to play, so the beta testers should be wrapping up their first run-through! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron von Beergut Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I'll agree with Wittman - graphics to me don't make or break a wargame, although they are nice. Having or not having US troops to me is not a major concern. To me it's a tactical exercise with a variety of weapon systems based on something historical. So CMSF really doesn't interest me as it is totally hypothetical and not even a likely scenario. Although one probably could use it to construct battles... The two biggest selling points of it to me is to support battlefront and that it's the newest thing on the block. To each there own, so regardless of what you like - good luck in your battles... BvB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 As far as your shiny graphics mention of CMSF Well, I didn't say the graphics of CMSF were shiny, I said they were 'new'. But don't get me wrong, I'm firmly among the "limited population of CM playing WW2 buffs" on this one. I was just trying to express things from the perspective of majority. Although, even you poo-pooers of flashy graphics have to admit that the latest screenies are looking increasingly inviting (and the very opposite of 'shiny'!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaldo Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Sivodsi might be right in saying that more people want CMSF than CMC. But I'd like to just throw in a few comments to suggest that it isn't necessarily so and that there's still a case to be made for CMC being favoured: - I'm new to CM series since late summer last year. When I see recent posts in other threads about getting CM to run well with Vista + NVIDIA cards it seems several of those are also new to CM series (e.g. posts in March about wating for CM CDs to arrive). So new people are still coming to CM. - Good gameplay doesn't date. The original wargame is still widely played - chess. I see nothing much dated in CMBB gameplay-wise. Yes, ideally I'd like to see some new things such as re-crewing of guns and also have a better AI but it lives fine as it is and I've yet to see anything with better gameplay. - I'm a new customer and the graphics attracted me. Graphics only need to get to a certain point to be able to give gameplay support and to give a realism feel. I still believe the graphics in CMBB are very, very good. Will they be better in CMSF ? Yes. Is that good ? Yes. Is that necessary for a tactical game ? No. Beyond the level we already have in CMBB, graphics improvements are a welcome "nice to have" rather than an essential. I would agree that better graphics would be needed to attract new people to an FPS or an arcade game but not to a game such as this. - I actually believe that for people playing wargames it is an advantage to offer PIVs in Russia rather than Abrams in Syria - it's more of a challenge. BF are smart enough to realise that a challenge is needed. Hence one post once about making a CMSF mission that might be "lost" if a single Abrams tank is lost. Good idea but there is a risk there too - how many wargamers enjoy it when victory comes easily without losses ? Far more memorable are the close contests when your tactical acumen saved the day pulling victory from the claws of deafeat. I think this is one of the appeals of WWII - different but reasonably closely matched forces (unless 3 Shermans come across 3 Tigers ...) - I don't know the balance between US and non-US players of BF games and the importance of US troops in a game. But CMBB sold well without US forces in it so I'd suggest it's not critical. Just one new voice saying please persevere with CMC. For many of us - including new people like me - it's just what we want. CMBB is still a great game with the biggest opportunity for improvement (IMO) being better linked battles in the way CMC will bring. I'll take that over better graphics or modern tanks any day of the week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Task Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I've tried to get friends to play CM, since my opponent is always AI. They think it is stupid, because the graphics suck. Me, I really don't care about graphics. I play many of the latest games with incredible visuals, since my computer is a beast, but I don't mind at all if a game doesn't have much flashiness. Immersing myself in a game matters most. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Hi Task, What superficial friends you have! Did you find an opponent? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Task Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 No, I've only ever played AI. Even on the CM maps that don't recommend it . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Well let me know if you want to start a PBEM: vulpine_odyssey (at) hotmail.com 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Personally, I think the best thing about the new engine will be the vastly improved gameplay. Personally, after I got CMBB I never went back to CMBO. I tried one more BO game, but the gameplay was just lacking in CMBO compared to CMBB. I feel that the gameplay difference between CMx2 games and CMBB/CMAK will be such that I just wont be able to play BB/AK anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaldo Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I agree with David Chapuis to a point (although I - like many others - still play CMBO as well as CMBB & CMAK despite the older gameplay because I specifically want to play western front sometimes). But as well as gameplay there is the era (WWII compared to modern) and the context in which battles are set (CMC style operational game linked to CM) that can give appeal. CMx2 will - with CMSF on 27th July - give some things and advantages (graphics, gameplay) not in a CMBB/CMC package. But it will be (speculation based on past events and other posts) 1 year later before CMx2 is available for WWII. And (optimism) 1 year after that before a CMC style operational game to link CMx2 WWII battles within. That gives a CMC linked to CMBB a long period of time in which to get finished and still be attractive to many people to a greater or lesser degree in parallel to playing CMx2 games. I personally hope it makes it well within that timeframe. But I'll buy it even if it only makes it 6 months before a forecast end date for a CMC linked with a WWII CMx2 (if such a beast is even ever considered). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBly Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 posted June 11, 2007 01:07 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personally, I think the best thing about the new engine will be the vastly improved gameplay. Personally, after I got CMBB I never went back to CMBO. I tried one more BO game, but the gameplay was just lacking in CMBO compared to CMBB. I feel that the gameplay difference between CMx2 games and CMBB/CMAK will be such that I just wont be able to play BB/AK anymore. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everyone knows by now the engine hasn't changed that much at all, it's more of a graphics upgrade than an engine upgrade. Those that have previewed CM:SF have already responded of this. Instead of getting a whole front we are going to get modules so Battlefront can milk all the $$ they can out of the newer engine, but not really offering up anymore than a new hypothetical scene in this first release. Your dreams of grandeur will just go poof when you finally get the game and see it's not much more than what AK or BB already is except for the graphics. I'm not particularly fond of the first release and thus won't be buying it anyway. But, if/when CMC is released I will be buying that because it improves upon an already great engine. It's everything in one package and not 20 different modules for $35-$50 just milking the donkey on some newer and sharper graphics. Also if you never downloaded the mod CMETO then you are missing out on all the Western front missions from CMBO, which brings CMBO up to date with CMBB and CMAK by the way it plays. You get the best of all worlds in CMETO and since it uses the CMAK engine you don't have to keep both on your hard-drive. I just play CMETO and CMBB now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I feel that the gameplay difference between CMx2 games and CMBB/CMAK will be such that I just wont be able to play BB/AK anymore. Ah but CMX2 is not just a replacement for CMX1, its going to be on a smaller 'company' scale with 1 to 1 representation. I don't think CMX1 will be superceded in the same way that BB and AK 'finished' BO for many players (with all due respect to those who keep playing BO). Everyone knows by now the engine hasn't changed that much at all, it's more of a graphics upgrade than an engine upgrade. Those that have previewed CM:SF have already responded of this I think you're quite wrong here. Please show us where reviewers have stated this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Agreed. BO was revolutionary. BB and AK were evolutionary. CMx2 will once again be revolutionary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Originally posted by Sivodsi: [snipped by Brent] and perhaps the killer: - there are no Americans in CMBB [snipped by Brent] Nonsense - it's got plenty of Lease Lend equipment 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Goldsmith Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I don't plan to buy CMSF. The topic has no interest for me. I'll definitely buy CMC. I really don't care about fancy graphics. They just take up designer time and computer capacity without adding to the information players need to play the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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