what pallete would prefer to see in CMx2, muted coloring

[aka_tom_w]

I yield the thread to MikeyD .....

Hey, I'll start something.

what sort of color pallete would prefer to see in CMx2, muted coloring - shades of brown and moody colors like some film-noir movie, or brilliant eye-popping colors like those gorgious Grognard screenshots?

It seems people often used to grouse about CM's emerald green landscapes (though some countrysides in mid-summer can be just that spectacular). Several 3rd party grass mods and a vast expanse of desert sand later, this topic's not come up so much anymore. But we've got the new game engine to think about now.

[end my attempt to hijack the thread.]

[ August 26, 2005, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Thomm]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

empty thread space holder for something new

LOL!!!!!

Did the giant smilies eat the [New Topic] button?!?

[MikeyD]

If you look at a lot of FPS games out there you can't say they've been painted with a particularly 'bright' palette. I think they're taking their cue from the movies. It all depends on what BFC is shooting for, an old-fashioned Technicolor epic (A Bridge Too Far) or a more recent digital camera movie (Saving Private Ryan).

For a test BFC might consider trying to 'batch file' their whole PMS folder through Photoshop a couple times, to see if it looks classier with the color saturation halved, or doubled, or given a sepia tone tint, or just the green tints adjusted, or something like that. Giving all the art a common touch would make the game more of a unified product (sorta what they did for the desert in CMAK).

[ August 26, 2005, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[Gromit]

The standard "baby bear" reply...

Not too bright, not too dull... juuuuust RIGHT!

[Mord]

I've always been a fan of subdude textures and colors thanks to Kump's crusade and Gunslinger's work waaaaay back. The color palette is more appealing in my eyes and probably one of the reasons I didn't mod Afrika Korps near as much as CMBO and CMBB.

Mord.

[aka_tom_w]

Gunslinger's pallete was PERFECT

Gunslinger all the way!

The thing about Gunslinger's mods was they looked GREAT on LCD's and laptops

I think there is difference in the feel and tone and look of the colour between the CRT and the LCD

Some folks here are WWII military grogs

I hate to say it but I consider my self a colour calibration grog

the colour pallete they go with should be viewed and tested on both CRT's and LCD's at different gamma settings.

There should should be a note or disclaimer as to what gamma setting the moniter was set at when the colour was determined.

Such as "This colour pallete is best viewed at gamma 1.6 and millions of colours (thousands I guess if they stick with 16 bit graphics)

-tom w

[panzermartin]

I think the ideal is balancing bright and subdued colors. Some artistic touches here and there aint bad because ,imo, a totally subdued pallete will make the game look dull and heavy. The color ranges used by Maddox 1c in Il-2 and the cancelled(?) Wartime command are close to what I would prefer to see in CMx2, perhaps

a bit more subdued. Magua's color ranges in that classic Normandy mod are among my favourites too.

[Kurtz]

What? Everyone knows there was no colour in world war 2. Everything was black and white back then.

[MikeyD]

Re Kurtz's B&W remark, every once in a while a few moments of archived color film of WWII pops up on TV and it can be jarring to look at. "Look at those big yellow numbers on the side of that tank!" "Look at that bright red telephone booth on the street corner!' "All those U.S. soldiers are wearing pastel brown!" (faded khaki).

I suspect if CMx2 went all-out for 'real world' colors the general consensus would be "Eeew, that sucks!"

[Kurtz]

The value of those film snippets for coulour representation can be questioned.

Did the film depict the right colour? That is still a problem (or a feature) - films highlight/saturate different colours in different way.

Add to this the question how colours might have changed when the film was stored.

But at least we know if the house in the film snippet is green or red.

And is fascinating to watch.

I agree about the real world. The real world isn't always what we would like to see. I took some photos a while ago and found them hazy and dull. A while later I encountered a similar situation and realized that the real world actually looked dull and hazy in those conditions.

[Philippe]

I think it is illuminating to watch a few color movies made prior to 1960, and then ask yourself if the world was a lot brighter back then, or if there was merely something a bit off about the way color was captured on early film. Beyond establishing that that two-decker bus really was some kind of fire-engine red, it doesn't give a good sense of the palette.

I've tried to have this discussion with a few WWII veterans, but to no avail: they were literary people not artists. So what you need to do is to find a 90-year old painter who was in the war, because they're probably the only ones who understand color.

Personally, I prefer my WW II in relaxing shades of sepia and brown. I know it looked like that, I've got my father's photographs to prove it.

[Michael Dorosh]

As far as quality colour images from WW II, how is this?

The CBC just aired a four hour mini-series done completely with colour footage shot from 1933 to 1945.

Above are all DND images taken during WW II. I don't see any sepia.

More and more is coming to light all the time; a friend of mine acquired Kodachrome slides (headed for the dumpster via the widow) belonging to a Canadian Army dentist in Korea; the prints look like they were taken yesterday.

LOTS of colour photos - in the hundreds if not thousands - and many hours of colour film footage out there, if you make it past the bargain rack at the local book store.

As far as CM goes, I'd suggest slightly muted coloring for terrain, and bright colours for units, just to provide some contrast. Nothing drab or depressing, though. Op Flashpoint had good colour schemes, IMO. Squad Assault was just dull to look at.

Good books include MIGHTY EIGHTH IN COLOUR (by Roger Freeman, I think) which is an entire book of colour pics of just the 8th Air Force in the UK in WW II, and one by George R. Stevens, IIRC, something about "D-Day to VE-Day in Color" - he was a Signal Corps photographer who did colour motion picture throughout NW Europe - there was a TV special and hard cover book done from his stuff.

[ August 26, 2005, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Pvt. Ryan]

Impaling hamsters is rough on the back

"Women Drivers" I'll show them women drivers! Comin' through!

Zoiks! Who let a woman have a Jeep? Run away! She'll kill us all!

62cm, 63,cm, 67cm... I don't care how tall they say I have to be to ride this thing!

I don't care what anyone says - I think I look just like Monty.

Would you be happy if you all you had to eat was round bacon? Well, would you?

[MikeyD]

"Eeew, that sucks!"

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

"Eeew, that sucks!"

Your conclusions may be correct, but you've shown no real understanding of what colour is supposed to do inside a game. I'm hoping, as stated above, that the colours will maximize unit identification during the orders phase.

Would be neat if during turn giving, the terrain muted down and the units brightened up, maybe even monocolour - and then went back to natural shades during movie playback.

Or to have a set of options to toggle these ie

Orders Phase - Terrain Natural, Terrain Muted, Terrain Bright

Orders Phase - Units Natural, Units Muted, Units Monochrome

Playback Phase - Terrain etc. Units etc.

All the weirdos who think CM is actually a movie-maker are not to be listened to.

[David Chapuis]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Your conclusions may be correct, but you've shown no real understanding of what colour is supposed to do inside a game. I'm hoping, as stated above, that the colours will maximize unit identification during the orders phase.

Dorosh, do you still use the ugliest mods ever created?

I remember seeing some of your screenshots once. It was painful to the eyes.