So where is the patch

[SD Smack]

So, after running jumping up and down, I realized that this was a "preview" of the patch and not the patch itself. Which brings up the question, if is there more cool graphics that are added/fixed in this patch or was it mostly know bugs that were adressed?

Patiently (albeit out of breath) waiting for the patch

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

both

[SD Smack]

woops

in my haste I failed to see the top of the page where Madmatt has posted some comments about the 1.05 patch..oops

aka_tom_w

thanks for the response!

Steve

[Bigduke6]

Steve,

I have played several scenarios so your experience is alot deeper than mine. But my experience is, pathfinding is pretty close to broken. I am not saying this as a crank, I am just giving you my evaluation of things as I see them. Just one user's feedback.

I have plotted Strykers to drive straight down a street, not under fire and no enemy sighted, and they turn around and drive into courtyards and come at the end point the back way.

I have had M1A1s get an order to shift 20 - 30 meters forward, and it does but then when the tank gets there it spins in place to present the enemy with a flank. I have seen vehicles appear to decide there are invisible obstacles on roads, and insistently drive around them.

I have seen infantry squads refuse to get into their Strykers, and refuse to get out. I have seen them absolutely refuse to go around a corner, and I have seen them stand fast when I order them to get the heck out of someplace I suddenly don't want them to be.

I agree the problems seem to crop up more where there are alot of buildings, and though I have indeed RTFM I think it's reasonable to assume part of the difficulty is I am learning the interface.

But I've played alot of computer wargames over the years, and my opinion is, if the pathfinding stays the way it is, then CMSF will be neither an effective simulator, nor fun.

But if your pixel troopies won't go where you order them, if they seem to move randomly and won't behave in a reasonable approximation of how troopies ought to behave on a battlefield, in common battlefield situations, then IMO there is a serious and perhaps critical problem.

I am sure there are plenty of players out there that just love battles where armor gets smoked at several kilometers of stand-off. As for me, it seems that the kind of conflict this game is replicating would tend towards close-in engagements, particularly in built-up terrain. So if your pathfinding is terrific at 2000 meters in hilly terrain, but relatively poor in an urban setting, you may have overall fair pathfinding - except in the place where you really need it.

Of course, I'm just one customer. If you Steve say the pathfinding works pretty well overall, then maybe I'm just a marginal opinion that should be discounted.

By way of softening the harsh words, I think it is fair to say I am one of BFI's more dedicated fans. For instance, at this point in time I own three count 'em three copies of legally-purchased CMBB, making me quite possibly the largest single concentration of legitimate BFI products, in all East Europe.

FWIW

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Pathfinding as of v1.04 is actually pretty good IMHO. There are, however, situations with vehicles and avoidance of other vehicles that have been fixed in v1.05. Most of the problems with infantry pathing is related to doors, which again we've made a lot of fixes for in v1.05. So like everything else, I don't expect you guys will find pathing "perfect" in v1.05, but you definitely will see major improvements.

Steve

[M1A1TC]

My granpa was from Kiev

[DaveDash]

> But if your pixel troopies won't go where you order them, if they seem to move randomly and won't behave in a reasonable approximation of how troopies ought to behave on a battlefield, in common battlefield situations, then IMO there is a serious and perhaps critical problem.

It's not as random as you think:

Ok there are only a few pathfinding problems, and most of them can easily be worked around

1) Half of squad getting stuck in buildings. Solution: Split squad

2) Half of squad getting stuck in trees. Solution: Split Squad

3) Half of squad staying in trenches. Solution: Split Squad

4) Weird vehicle behavior down roads: Solution: 15s pause for each successive vehicle in the column. They do it because they figure they have an obstruction in their way, but don't realise its another moving vehicle.

5) Spinning vehicles and Squads. Face command at the end waypoint or cover arc. You should be doing this anyway.

Apart from that, pathfinding is actually pretty good in the game. You can grab a unit and click miles away somewhere else and it will find its way there relatively intelligently provided none of the above critera get in the way.

The main pathfinding annoyances are units just refusing to move sometimes and doors/building pathfinding, and units not following your waypoints as accuractly as they should, but we'll see what changes 1.05 bring.

[meryphillia]

Originally posted by Bigduke6:

By way of softening the harsh words, I think it is fair to say I am one of BFI's more dedicated fans. For instance, at this point in time I own three count 'em three copies of legally-purchased CMBB, making me quite possibly the largest single concentration of legitimate BFI products, in all East Europe.

Nah.

You are wrong and not "the best" Eastern European customer of Battlefront.

In Poland we have strong community with own league which is very good and have some 1000 users.

As well our players have many of original copies of battlefront games couse CMBB and CMAK cost here some around 5$.

[M1A1TC]

I was in Krakow recently. Very cool town.

[Mord]

Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander:

Steve

Can you please comment on the release of the modding tools?

Seconded.

Mord.

[John Catsack]

I agree with DaveDash, I think that pathfinding is mostly working in 1.04. There are definitely a few problems, like invisible obstacles for infantry and the fact that vehicles still take that weired "great circle" route when moving in the open, but I can live with those gripes.

The problem is with the TACAI deciding where infantry should go to take cover, which is pretty poor right now, but has been getting better with every patch.

[Battlefront.com]

Hev,

I have the scenario if you would like to check it out and the problems show with EVERY PLAY. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me there are going to be pathfinding fix's in 1.05!!

Well, I've already done that. I can't help it if you haven't read what I wrote or don't grasp the significance of rather straightforward talk. For example, scan up a couple of posts from your rant and see what I wrote. Ah... never mind, here it is again

Pathfinding as of v1.04 is actually pretty good IMHO. There are, however, situations with vehicles and avoidance of other vehicles that have been fixed in v1.05. Most of the problems with infantry pathing is related to doors, which again we've made a lot of fixes for in v1.05. So like everything else, I don't expect you guys will find pathing "perfect" in v1.05, but you definitely will see major improvements.

Note the part where I said "most of the problems..." and "made a lot of fixes for in v1.05". Almost everything you rattled off has to do with certain types of doors not functioning correctly. That's really is just about all of the infantry pathing problems. Vehicle pathing problems were largely eliminated with v1.04, but we fixed some of those too.

Now, completely separate from pathing problems are "stuck unit" problems, which is the bulk of the rest of your complaints. This has nothing to do with path finding at all. I've said elsewhere, possibly even in this thread, that those have been fixed as well.

BigDuke6,

Of course, I'm just one customer. If you Steve say the pathfinding works pretty well overall, then maybe I'm just a marginal opinion that should be discounted.

No, it's just that your opinion is a bit out of proportion Pathfinding DOES basically work correctly in v1.04. The problem with pathing is that players expect it to work 100% of the time exactly as they want. That's wishful thinking since we'll never live up to (CMx1 certainly has pathing problems). What isn't wishful thinking is expecting it to be better than it is. No problem there, which is why I keep saying that v1.05 has made major improvements in the few areas that weren't up to snuff in v1.04.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

There are two Mod tools coming out with the v1.05 patch. One

"unpacks" the BRZ files so you see the raw art and sound files. You can edit or replace them to your heart's content. When you are done you can leave them "unpacked" so you can futz around with stuff before calling it done. However, unpacked resources are less efficiently loaded by CM and that means you will suffer a speed hit when loading scenarios. That's why we included a "packing" tool that puts all the raw images back into a BRZ file.

Once you know the name/number of a particular resource you can make your own stand alone BRZ files (or unpacked folders of raw files) that override the default ones. This allows you to make self contained "Mod Packs" that contain only those things which have been changed, not the 100s of MBs worth of stuff you didn't change.

These are simple, straight forward tools. It will take only a few minutes to figure out how to use them, but a lot longer to get a feel for how the resources are laid out. There are a LOT of things to thumb through

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

by the way....

Steve's post above "could be" interpreted to suggest the patch release might be CLOSE.

[Bigduke6]

I think you guys are dead wrong on the pathfinding issue, at least sometimes.

When I order a Stryker to move forward 100 meters along a road in a city, no fire and no other vehicles heading that way, I expect it to at least try to move where I plotted it. Without trying to push the line that my life will end if that doesn't change, I think that is a reasonable expectation for a computer wargame. Units ought to be able to handle the simple moves from A to B, in the places where the combat is going to take place.

What I have seen, sometimes, is the Styker turns in place, heads off in the opposite direction, circles through a courtyard, and attempt to reach the destination of the plot line from the enemy side of the battlefield.

You can dress it up however you want, but in my book that kind of pathfinding is not going to cut it as a simulation of Strykers driving through an urban area.

It's clear some players are willing to live with the game handing out "great circle" routes from time time time. I'm not one of them, but hey, one man one voice. The critical people here are Steve and Charles, and Steve keeps saying "going to be better, but not perfect", when it comes to pathfinding as of the next patch. That's pretty murky and quite obviously intentionally so, and therefore just as obviously we game-owners will wait.

meryphillia,

Oh yeah? Ya think so do ya? Wanna fight do ya?

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Ok...I own 3 copies of CMBB, 2 of CMAK, 1 of CMBO, and 1 of CMSF. AND I run a meta campaign. (Taking place in modern Poland, BTW) Also I have done significant work taking bootleg copies of BFI products off the market.

Beat that, or admit in public salo is better for your health than kielbasa, Lviv historically never was ethnically Polish, and Warsaw women are poorly-dressed and have lumpy figures compared to their Kiev sisters. You snobby western Slav you!

P.S. You guys gotta web site?

[M1A1TC]

Russian women beat Polish women anytime

Steve, thanks, cant wait to make USMC, Soviet Afghan era and Speznaz uniform mods Best Hunnukah present ever!

[Paper Tiger]

aka_tom: yeah, I got that impression too since Steve has been so reticent to post about the patch until today. Maybe later today or tomorrow?

Please Battlefront, don't wait to release it until next weekend. I bought my game from Gamersgate and I don't want to wait until the New Year for Paradox to get their copy of the patch ready for downloading.

[Thomm]

Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander:

My granpa was from Kiev

My granpa got appendicitis ... in Stalingrad!!! :eek:

Best regards,

Thomm

[Thomm]

I also have to say that the unit pathing does not give me too much headache as it is right now.

Presently, the worst bug I remember is the fact that MOUT squads do not cross the building walls they blast, at least in some instances.

The odd spinning vehicle behavior is also visible from time to time, but this has to be in every true wargame ever since CC came out!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Other Means]

I've found a lot of the pathfinding problems I was seeing were actually down to CM1 expectations. Every street in CM1 could have multiple tanks in, and they'd squeeze in as they were all - for me anyway - set to scale + 2.

In SF the scale is always "realistic" and Strykers can't turn on the spot - so if they can't get lined up they will spin to find a way down.

Still - I'm sure when 1.05 is out there'll be far fewer "game broken" complaints.

[handihoc]

my granpa was a rollin' stone.

[massive1974]

My grandpa was a conscript in the hungarian army, a slow peasant, retreated with the germans all the way to berlin. soviets took him prisoner, somehow got transferred to the americans who cut him loose and gave him "a small piece of cake that you put into water and it just expanded like crazy and the whole village came to see it."

I'm eagerly waiting for the patch. so would my grandpa.

[massive1974]

that just explains why the americans won the war. with the secret wondercake.

[M1A1TC]

Wouldn't it be awesome if the patch was released today?!

[Meach]

I hope so...I have a week off work still on holiday time.

['Card]

Personally I just wish Bigduke6 would stop being so shy, come out of his shell a little bit, and tell us how he really feels about the pathfinding issue. Hopefully in great detail. At length. He could even go on and on about it as far as I'm concerned.

*snork*

Personally? I thought the pathfinding in 1.04 was pretty decent. Yeah, the troops do some goofy things sometimes, but anyone who finds that surprising or unrealistic has probably never seen real-life troops try to conduct movement in a coordinated fashion - and things get extraordinarily goofy when you add the minor element of people shooting at them. If the door-related problems are addressed, I'll be pretty content.