Help with the editor please

[Pandur]

ok i have some issues i faced while fideling around with my map. i didnt found a direct anser to them in the manual nor in the "will have screenshots" thread.

best is i list it...

1. i want to do a vs. AI map. do i need to give the defending AI area objectives to defend the points i want or are area objectives just for the human player!?

maybe you need em also for the AI to include inthe Ai plan but i dont know for sure.

2. are minus points possible for victory conditions!? like you suffer too much casualties enemy gets +X and you get -X !?

i find the victory conditions quiet complicated, but i have to work that out. maybe i should take a look into the german written manual!?

3. trenches...i asked that allready at some other place.

that is more personal preference, but i have to ask, its also generally usable not just for my map.

i have partly rather open map, some cliffs. this cliffs should be sparsly held by some combatants or whatever.

now, when i place trenches there in order to hide em everyone knows there have to be some sort of opposition.

now, is it better to place just many trenches on many ridgelines like the CMx1 decoy trenches!?

becouse hiding in flat open sand is no option either, they get spotted from 1km and shot. so trenches are nessesary in some way i feel...!?

but than again decoy trenches would bug down a map, frame whise, i think.

iam verry interessted what people would personally prefer if you have to take one of both sub-optimal solutions...

also trenches would need a "T" junction. you cant do "fallback trenches" right now.

EDIT:

4.

whats "intel strenght" and thos 2nd intel setting right below or above it(EDIT: early intel). i found no more info onthat than the little line inthe manual...!?

thats all for now, but iam sure i will find some other things i need to ask

[ August 01, 2007, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Pandur ]

[George MC]

Answers! J

1. i want to do a vs. AI map. do i need to give the defending AI area objectives to defend the points i want or are area objectives just for the human player!?

You need to give the AI an AI Plan. This tells the strategic AI what it should be doing. Best bet is to read the section in the manual that covers creating AI plans.

2. are minus points possible for victory conditions!? like you suffer too much casualties enemy gets +X and you get -X !?

Yes, yes and yes. The conditions allow for a variety of victory conditions for both sides. Best bet is to play around with the settings.

3. trenches...i asked that allready as some other place.

I’d use decoy trenches (I use that technique in one of the campaign scenarios). You can also hide em in scrub or trees. The player does have to get down to a lower view elevation to find em but then given the use of high tec recce equipment then you could argue this covers the player doing that prior to an attack. Decoys is your best bet. You can alwys check the framerate (mind cliffs have a large impact on FPS).

Hope this helps

Cheers fur noo

George Mc

Scenario Editor Manual

[ August 01, 2007, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: George Mc ]

[Fetchez la Vache]

Another question:

How can you add mosque domes and balconies as seen in the QB/scenario/campaign maps?

[securityguard]

Another question: How do you get the AI to face a direction after deployment? I got the AI to setup fine using the AI tools, but they all face the complete opposite direction of the enemy deployment. This pretty much ruins the ATGM's because they take forever to deploy and the AI rarely redeploys.

[George MC]

Originally posted by Fetchez la Vache:

Another question:

How can you add mosque domes and balconies as seen in the QB/scenario/campaign maps?

Making a Mosque

Cheers fur noo

George Mc

[George MC]

Originally posted by securityguard:

Another question: How do you get the AI to face a direction after deployment? I got the AI to setup fine using the AI tools, but they all face the complete opposite direction of the enemy deployment. This pretty much ruins the ATGM's because they take forever to deploy and the AI rarely redeploys.

Have you checked what 'friendly' direction you have allocated to each side?

Cheers fur noo

George

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by George Mc:

Answers! J

1. i want to do a vs. AI map. do i need to give the defending AI area objectives to defend the points i want or are area objectives just for the human player!?

You need to give the AI an AI Plan. This tells the strategic AI what it should be doing. Best bet is to read the section in the manual that covers creating AI plans.

If the "plan" is simply for the AI defender to defend in place, is a plan necessary? I wouldn't think so, though alternate AI plans could at least have the defender change the ambush ranges from game to game. The at start defensive positions won't change no matter what the AI plans state, unless the defender doesn't start in them -i.e. he has to move into them after game start. Doing this would allow different positions to be taken up from game to game.

It is possible to have the defender shift positions during the game, but all AI movement is timed to the clock rather than attacker movements, so in some situations, I'd be inclined just to leave them in place and ensure that they have interlocking fields of fire and other principles of a sound defence such as secure flanks, etc. Since the AI as it stands is not very good at reacting, you have to minimize its ability to do stupid things like run across open ground in enemy sight.

[George MC]

Hi Michael

You are correct. You can have the AI 'hide' then pop up into ambush positons, then duck down. That works well. So a basic defensive AI plan, with no movement if you like, IMHO is still a requirement for a scenario.

Al Amarah uses fall back positions for the Red defenders, which depending on how Blue plays works well, or sees the Reds being caught out in the streets (a risk in mOUT actions).

Cheers fur noo

George

ps hope you are saving up for all the beer you are going to buy when I get to Calgary

[Thomm]

Hey, MD!

Regarding your scenario meeting engagement in mountaneous terrain (or something): the BMPs should be able to kill the Strykers with their main gun, no? They seem to shoot coax like there is no tomorrow, but no main gun. It is strange ... especially since one Stryker refused to die and this is why I got a "draw" in the end, after blowing the enemy platoon to bits!?

... also the Strykers drove straight into the compound, where my whole platoon of BMPs was already hidden. No evasive manouvers whatsoever.

Are you content with how the engine handles this?!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Joe Shaw]

Originally posted by George Mc:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fetchez la Vache:

Another question:

How can you add mosque domes and balconies as seen in the QB/scenario/campaign maps?

Making a Mosque

Cheers fur noo

George Mc </font>

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Pandur:

2. are minus points possible for victory conditions!? like you suffer too much casualties enemy gets +X and you get -X !?

Actually I don't think it works that way (and why would you, as you can just give the enemy 2*X).

Rather, you can for example make it so that if Blue force casualties are below 20% then blue gets 100 points, and if Blue casualties are over 40% then red gets 100 points. But if it's between 20 and 40, none gets awarded. This happens by setting in Blue parameters the Friendly casualties threshold to 20 and points to 100, and in Red parameters the Enemy casualties threshold to 20 and points to 100.

That way you have more 'variability' in the end results. For a well balanced scenario, you'd want to define these so that the average losses fall into that mid region but good players can earn those points.

[MikeyD]

"How can you add mosque domes and balconies as seen in the QB/scenario/campaign maps?"

'control-shift-leftclick' on a wall will give you a selection of balconies. For roofs its 'control-leftclick 'onto the roof itself. I think all the commands to change facades, windows, balconies etc is somewhere around page 17 in the manual.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Rollstoy:

Hey, MD!

Regarding your scenario meeting engagement in mountaneous terrain (or something): the BMPs should be able to kill the Strykers with their main gun, no? They seem to shoot coax like there is no tomorrow, but no main gun. It is strange ... especially since one Stryker refused to die and this is why I got a "draw" in the end, after blowing the enemy platoon to bits!?

... also the Strykers drove straight into the compound, where my whole platoon of BMPs was already hidden. No evasive manouvers whatsoever.

Are you content with how the engine handles this?!

Best regards,

Thomm

I think it says right in the selection screen that it is intended for two humans though, no? I played it against the AI a few times and managed draws so I figured it must be reasonably balanced. That was before I discovered Javelins... Basically I just wanted something with some mountainous terrain in it.

I'd like to see some fuzziness added to the AI, and the ability to react to enemy movements rather than the clock. Once we have more and more scens in the system though, replayability becomes less of an issue - and so some of the AI issues become less important. With only a handful of scens to fool around with right now, and people replaying by necessity, I think AI predictability is more of an issue than it will be in a few months when there are more decent scenarios than anyone can reasonably expect to play given a normal allotment of liesure time.

[Fetchez la Vache]

Many thanks. I did look through the manual, but was obviously being a bit more retarded than normal.

[Pandur]

many thanks for the answers, iam glad that also other people post questions here, so there arent too much threads for that, since there is no scenario editing forum.

You are correct. You can have the AI 'hide' then pop up into ambush positons, then duck down. That works well.

how do i do that!? i have exactly that problem right now.

in my map the recon elemet(unfortunately 5 minutes ahead instead of 1 or 2, but less than 5 seems not possible in an "ensured" way)gets ambushed and with verry bad luck compleatly destroyed.

however in the firefight with guys they tend to spot my 2nd ambush element, about 600m away and 50m above them. they have BRDM´s

this 2nd ambush element should hide and ambush when the player comes in range. i set the AI plan to ambush@300m wich makes em looking instead of hiding...so they get spotted long long befor they should get.

Rather, you can for example make it so that if Blue force casualties are below 20% then blue gets 100 points, and if Blue casualties are over 40% then red gets 100 points. But if it's between 20 and 40, none gets awarded. This happens by setting in Blue parameters the Friendly casualties threshold to 20 and points to 100, and in Red parameters the Enemy casualties threshold to 20 and points to 100.

thanks for that example, that helps quiet a bit.

[Narcan]

I'd like to see some fuzziness added to the AI, and the ability to react to enemy movements rather than the clock.

Have you ever used the Flashpoint/ArmA mission editor? That's closer to the control level I'd like to see. It lets you script lots of fairly complicated triggers. (e.g. If 'convoy_leader' enters area X and 'friendly_reinforcement' has been in area Y for 2+ minutes, then execute maneuver Z.)

Although frankly, if the TacAI was a little bit brighter, I think the current AI scripting technique would work. Units need to be smart enough to halt or reverse when they meet resistance, and to pause if their destination is occupied.

I haven't been real impressed by the AI's, "time is up, now we drive straight at that tank" mentality.

[Pandur]

sorry for the follow on question to my post above;

iam also totaly tricked by the elevation tool! i have no clue how all this works exactly, but through playing around i crated a "random map"(quiet ieasy if you dont know how to do it normaly).

however, now i would like to adjust some areas and i cant find a way to simply edit a single nuber/square. even with adjust set to 0 it alters the elevation around the point i klick!?

everytime i check i totaly deformed my old part of the map and formed something new, with a few clicks...

how to make verry slight changes in verry smal areas!?

EDIt:

now after trying it further, i know now that i just need a way to get ALL squares black WITHOUT altering a single square. than i can edit single ones to fine tune it seems.

[ August 01, 2007, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Pandur ]

[Sergei]

Pandur, you don't really need to alter elevation for every tile. Just the tiles surrounding the ones that you want to change. Eg.

XXX

XOX

XXX

Where X is 30 meters and O is 25 meters, this creates a 5 meter deep mound. You get the idea?

[Pandur]

i dont know, somehow i know what it does, but how it will look like after i clicked is unpredictable for me.

problem is i need this to be done in rahter steep terrain with cliffs, and everytime i click it starts to even out everything wich isnt what i want. the rough terrain should stay...

i go and play with it again, but i cant see any logic behind it.

i know at some point i wil get it, but until now its all a big "!?" marker for me.

[Sergei]

So you do it like a contour map: where there are steep places, there's densely packed contours. Where there's more even, you draw the contours further apart. It'll get to your blood, don't worry. We all had difficulties in adjusting.

[Pandur]

i played around with it again for another 15 minutes...the harder i try the more it confuses me.

i dont see anything like contour lines, and how would i draw them.

for the worst case i prepared some screenshots...

ok here is "area 1"

the red area should get as high as the highest part here so the trench fits better.

at the same time i want the blue area unpassable for vehicles-> both cliffs need to come together here.

no matter how i try it i cant do it, it allways looks totaly changed than.

here is the thats how it lookslike in 2d...

that here is "area 2" as you can see i need it made to an cliff too.

basicly the red line has to come higher, and everything around blue lines have to remain as it is...

looks so simple, but i cant pull it off.

everythime i hit 3d the map part in question is totaly "bulldozered" to different shape

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Narcan:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I'd like to see some fuzziness added to the AI, and the ability to react to enemy movements rather than the clock.

Have you ever used the Flashpoint/ArmA mission editor? That's closer to the control level I'd like to see. It lets you script lots of fairly complicated triggers. (e.g. If 'convoy_leader' enters area X and 'friendly_reinforcement' has been in area Y for 2+ minutes, then execute maneuver Z.)

Although frankly, if the TacAI was a little bit brighter, I think the current AI scripting technique would work. Units need to be smart enough to halt or reverse when they meet resistance, and to pause if their destination is occupied.

I haven't been real impressed by the AI's, "time is up, now we drive straight at that tank" mentality. </font>

[Pandur]

ok, with more playing around i figured how the elevaton tool works when you start a new map!!! thats verry good, however i still dont know how alter my "random map".

i know now how it "should" look like when the map is done in order to alter it.

but my maps looks like this ->

as you can see just a few blacked out squares...no single contour line

as one can see the map isnt flat at all, dont know how i did it but i know that i cant alter it with my knowlage...

should i throw it away or can it be safed somehow!?

at least i know now why i have that strange results...

[MikoyanPT]

Can someone give me a pointer on why should we Bake the scenarios made ?

They seem to work in the game without it and after baking the scenarios multiply by several the size of the file.

Am i missing a more serious implication of not baking the scenario, besides locking the finished mission ?

[Erik Springelkamp]

RTFM

With baking you are giving orders for the first gameturn, so the game can begin with a firefight when you are in an ambush situation.

The large size is because it is not just a scenario, it has orders for the AI just like a PBEM game.