John Kettler Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 The LOS ANGELES TIMES Saturday ran an article on a new field expedient armor system being used on Hummers in Ramadi, Iraq and elsewhere. Being made primarily of armored windshield panels taken from destroyed armored HummVees, it provides the gunner with a see-through (open-topped?) turret which protects his/her previously exposed head and shoulders from small arms over 360 degrees or close to it. Understand the troops call the expedient armor "Pope glass," because of similarity to protection on the famous "Pope mobile" of John Paul II. Per the article, it's already saved quite a few lives, including preventing casualties which would otherwise have occurred when a roadside bomb went off. Anyone have any info and or pics/links on what seems to me to be a CM:SF significant development? Regards, John Kettler [ April 04, 2006, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: John Kettler ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Uh... what was the date on Saturday? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Found it! Associated Press story. Unfortunately, no pics. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Iraq_Pope_Glass.html Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 You wanna picture? I'll give you a stinkin' picture! ...except this might be of a vehicle in the Green Zone Baghdad. Note the full Humvee accoutrements. Bull horn, smoke dischargers, beefed-up door armor... and the woman gunner! And what's missing from the picture? Bullets for the mg! [ April 04, 2006, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 No this is the real uparmoured popemobile!!!! :mad: :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Originally posted by Wicky: No this is the real uparmoured popemobile!!!! :mad: :mad: That would bring out the insurgents! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Hey Mikey, theres what appears to be a 500 rnd ammo can behind the M240, that building behind her is on the northern side of the green zone (IZ) if memory serves (and it usually doesnt) Jake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Well, i guess it's a downgraded version of that: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 MikeyD, Thanks for that! Do you have any more? Am trying to figure out how they counterbalance that enormous sand colored mass on the side of the turret, whose design is even funkier than I imagined. Seriously, I'd love to see this thing from additional angles. Wicky and Andrew H., Twisted, but funny! oren_m, The IDF sure has some strange looking AFVs. Has that turret been used before on a different chassis? ISTR a Centurion or somesuch. That one looks like a Zelda conversion. What's it for? Also, if possible, please supply images and descriptions of the various IDF MOUT/MOBA/FIBUA AFVs. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 This APC is an modified M113, the turret is brand new and does not exist on any other AFV. This i used for urban warfare in the west bank, it was built specialy for that purpose. I hope you'll like the next pictures (actually i'm sure you would), it's a heavy APC based on the Merkava chassis, it is called "Namer" or Tiger, in english. Enjoy... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 oren_m, Found this great Latrun site, but it doesn't have the vehicle I remember, though the Achzarit is in the ballpark, but doesn't have the protected tower like the Zelda mod you posted. Thanks for the Namer; hadn't seen it before. Note the bonus H-39, P IV/G and StuG III. http://www.davidpride.com/Israeli_Armor/Armor_index.htm Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 oren_m, This is as close as I can get to what I remember, but I thought it was on a tank chassis. What does this one do? http://idfmodelling.free.fr/kit_zelda_08.html Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It's practicly the same, only it has larger side skirts and a loud speaker on the top ,so you can talk to people without going outside , it is mainly used when you set random checkposts for ID's check. Oren_m 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I've seen a similar glass shield system mounted on the platoon of M1A1s here in Haditha. I'm not sure if its a standardized kit or scavenged parts, but some of the top mounted MGs have plexiglass gun shields on the frontal arc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 oren_m, Thanks for clearing that up. Am rather surprised that the IDF would field a massively protected APC, the Namer, only to leave the gunner out there in the RPG/sniper/AK breeze. panzerwerfer42, A most interesting tidbit! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Back to the hummer Popemobile glass. I located another picture of Humvees using spare windshield glass for the gunner. Different way of mounting it. Nice view of the turret armor insides. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 A buddy of mine, a USN SEAL, did some "grey" work in Israel and the Levant after leaving the service. Among other things, he co-authored a 1983 study on a new troop carrier for the IDF, after M113s proved totally unsatisfactory for MOUT in Lebanon (i.e. a lot of Israeli kids were killed or maimed in the things). They determined that there was just no substitute for MBT armor protection when it came to MOUT. The other option on the table was the equally expensive Bradley, which the IDF declined owing to insufficient armor and troop capacity and some other 1980s teething troubles (underpowered, trouble swimming due to top heavy turret). Even back in 1988, my friend was, and remains, convinced, that APCs in MOUT are basically death traps. A modified tank is the best way to save life and limb, and operating costs compared to the latest APCs are very similar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 It is a knowen fact that APC's are death traps in urban areas, only last year, 11 IDF soldiers got killed in two APC's that were hit by an RPG-7 rockets. But the MBT based APC's are not new to the IDF, here are some of the heavy APC's we have: Achzarit (Cruel)T-55 based. Puma, Centurion based Nagmachon, Centurion based 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by oren_m: It is a knowen fact that APC's are death traps in urban areas, only last year, 11 IDF soldiers got killed in two APC's that were hit by an RPG-7 rockets.Yep. And if an APC is a death trap, this makes the Hummer, with whatever armor you slap on it, what exactly? You listening out there, Donald "Go to war with the army you've got" Rumsfeld? Or is the Bradley/Hummer contract constituency in Congress more important than the lives of the troops? (Don't all answer at once now). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan_gigante Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 That Nagmachon has a crazy turret up there! I almost laughed when I saw it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 And if an APC is a death trap, this makes the Hummer, with whatever armor you slap on it, what exactly? A car. Any non- or ightly armoured vehicle is unsuitable for fighting from in a MOUT - so you treat them as transport like 1/2 tracks were in WW2 - the problem isn't the vehicle, it is that the infantry are riding around in it far too much IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 It maybe funny but it saved lots of lives! LongLeftFlank, Hummers are truely easy targets, but in the IDF we have highly protected Hummers which saved lives also, i really dont know why the US army dont buy our armor suits for it's Hummers.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 oren_m, My hero! What I saw in the Jenin footage must've been a Nagmachon. Please tell me all about this thing that would be right at home in Terminator. Is the heavily windowed top structure a turret, or it it fixed? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 It's fixed, but i'm not sure that this is what you saw, because the Nagmachon units were stationed mainly in the Gaza strip, along the "Philadelphy" line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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