Things still missing / lacking regarding AI

[KillerTomato]

Hi there

First of all, the game is much better after this first patch, thx Hubert. However i do feel there are things missing. Here are my first observations. Plz ppl enter yours.

- BEF did not evacuate from Brest eventhough i gave it ample oppertunies.

- AI made a very nice invasion in Vichy Algeria. However, with no HQ and no follow up units, so couple of unsupported armies + tank wasted!

- same goes for D-Day. No HQ support, so hammer time.

- RN in the Med is not used. Sitting ducks for the Italians. Why not send some home fleet units overthere?

- AI never goes for a concentrated series of attacks on 1 unit. Instead of attacking 1 weak tank/army etc with full force and destroying it it attacks multiple enemies.

- AI still pullsback out of well entreched positions without any need.

- AI does not buy back destroyed units. Serious issue

- Russians did not invest in infantrie weapons

- AI does not reclaim reseach chits when max reseach level is reached

- Russia & USA did only invest in 1 chit in IT, USA also only 1 in PT

- Instead of fortifying positions with expensive engineers, Russian AI throws them right on the frontline at the end of the turn. Engineers bought but not used propperly

- No use of diplomacy by allies

Cheers

KillerTomato

[ June 05, 2006, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: KillerTomato ]

[Edwin P.]

Goood points, I think that future patches will be more oriented towards improving the AI as this the first one was primarily aimed at bug fixing and play balance issues, though it did add quite a number of new scripts.

That said;

1. Naval Fleet Scripts Needed

2. Reclaim research chits will be fixed, according to another post by HC.

3. AI needs multiple research scripts to insure that it researches industrial tech. In my mod I use one script for USA 1939-1940 where USA MPPs purchase Industrial Tech and Production Tech and no units, no diplomacy.

4. Engineers need special scripting.

[Rolend]

Originally posted by KillerTomato:

...

- AI made a very nice invasion in Vichy Algeria. However, with no HQ and no follow up units, so couple of unsupported armies + tank wasted!

....

- AI does not buy back destroyed units. Serious issue

...

KillerTomato

What was strange about Vichy Algeria was that they took Casablanca, which was undefended on turn one, but failed to take the other city. What I don't understand is with Casablanca being a port city there was NO reason for them to not land a HQ and more units and crush that 2nd city before I had time to respond. The inital invasion took me by total suprise only to be botched, that part was very disapointing.

As far as AI not buying back units, well I am not sure if they do or don't but it sure seemed to me that Russia was getting units back in huge numbers and very quickly, even after I had them down to just Stalingrad. If they weren't buying back units then I would like to know where they got all those MPP's to buy new units with.

[KillerTomato]

Originally posted by Rolend:

As far as AI not buying back units, well I am not sure if they do or don't but it sure seemed to me that Russia was getting units back in huge numbers and very quickly, even after I had them down to just Stalingrad. If they weren't buying back units then I would like to know where they got all those MPP's to buy new units with.

None of the 6 or do tanks i destroyed were bought back, same goes for HQ and armies. At the end of the game i checked to see what USSR could buy. Lots of units with astrix

[Rolend]

Well if they learn to buy back then the Germans are in DEEP trouble as one or two more units could of easlly tipped the balance. In fact I had to totally focus on Stalingrad as I was losing ground and not making it up near as fast as Russia was. Had the war in Russia gone on much longer I think Russia would of turned the tide. Once Stalingrad fell Russia gave up and a good 10 units around Stalingrad vanished.

I love the bug fixes but I think the AI still needs some tweaking. I will say this, it was the toughest fight I have had with the AI since I started playing. The US getting involved forces you to keep a lot more units in the West, just as it was in real life, thus making Russia a lot harder to crack. I would think that human vs human it will be very tough for the Axies to win. I never did think the Axies edge was that great to begin with, now they are in real toruble.

EDIT ADDED:

One other note, taking that one German HQ in France away really hurts the Germans as even with that HQ by the start of the war in Russia they were already short 2 HQ, now make that 3.

[Hubert Cater]

The AI does focus on rebuilding destroyed units first when making new purchases but what it is able to purchase can depend on a few factors such as the number of units destroyed in the previous turn, MPP remaining after reinforcement, operation, upgrades etc., as purchases are made at the end of an AI's turn... as well as the fact that bigger ticket items such as Tanks, AF etc., fall later in the purchase logic queue as opposed to Corps and Armies which are prioritized.

Note, there is a bug that the AI does not re-purchase destroyed HQs, just found that based on the comments in this thread, and it will be corrected in a future patch.

[jkm]

one problem i noticed is with the US actually spending their MPPs on the most difficult setting. after an early sea lion, i was faced with a russian horde to deal with (3 tiles deep in the north). the US tried to free the british isles with an amphibious attack (no HQ support) that surprised me, but after that, they did nothing. at the end of the game, they had over 6000 MPPs, yet they still had strength 5 army's guarding NYC.

russia also seemed to give up building units once they ran out of corps/armies to build. they didn't ever build a tank/fighter group/rocket nor replace them if they were destroyed. the russian AI tends to concentrate almost all of its forces in the north now, instead of attacking north and south. i purposely left the bulgaria undefended yet they never once made an approach towards that sector.

[ChrisND]

AI still does not upgrade its units efficiently. Last game I had with AI it had level 2 and 3 techs in tanks, planes, long range, infantry, etc and it was still using using lvl 0 or 1.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Hmm quick question after jkm's post-when a unit is

cut off and destroyed (not rebuildable)-does the

hard/soft limit cap drop by one? If the limits are

there to reflect manpower reserves then if the unit's

men are all KIA/MIA/POWs then shouldn't the limit

then drop? Or does it already work like that?

[Blashy]

It already works like that, have all your takes cut off and killed with supply of 0 and you won't be able to purchase anymore tanks, oops!

[Hubert Cater]

Normal Dude, the AI is still restricted for upgrades in the same way a human player is... i.e. if it is next to an enemy unit it cannot upgrade. Off hand the AI will have a tougher time upgrading its units than a human player primarily because it is mostly focused on attack and defense and does not generally pull units off the line and/or hold units off the line simply to upgrade... but this may be re-assessed in a future patch. However whenever a new unit is purchased by the AI it will attempt to allocate funding to maxing out, or in the worst case partial upgrades whenever applicable and this is a change over v1.00.

[william bowen]

Hubert as you know the new patch does make the allies slightly more aggressive in invasions, taking Algiers in early 42 with 4 units none of them headquarters, there they sat for a whole year never made a move. Defeated them easily with 5 Italian units in late 43 possibly because the allies supply was very low, Italy couldn't beat Albania or anybody else what goes? The Italians also defeated the British africa troops without any problems, Can't this be corrected? Played the game 100% expert no FOW, no computer bonus points.

Willy

[jkm]

while the AI upgrades its units a lot now, especially in russia, it still does it only one point at a time. so if the AI has level 3 IW and level 2 motorization, it will take 5 turns to upgrade the unit.

it doesn't upgrade tanks/aircraft/rockets at all.

the only units that it adds elite reinforcements too are the imported troops (siberian/pacific naval forces)

the russian AI is not very aggressive at all. i let them accumulate 3 deep tiles through the north versus 2 deep corps and they would only attack with frontline units.

the russian AI has a tendency to want to put troops in the square to the west of riga. they lose a unit a turn due to naval bombardment

[Agamemnon]

Normal Dude, the AI is still restricted for upgrades in the same way a human player is... i.e. if it is next to an enemy unit it cannot upgrade. Off hand the AI will have a tougher time upgrading its units than a human player primarily because it is mostly focused on attack and defense and does not generally pull units off the line and/or hold units off the line simply to upgrade... but this may be re-assessed in a future patch.

Since the AI isn't much of a threat, why not let them cheat and upgrade even with adjacent enemy units. It's not like they will be doing extraordinary things like moves that can't be done by the human. Or getting tech breakthroughs every turn. Just a little help with upgrading, which a human would do more easily.

[Retributar]

I am in total agreement with you Agamemnon !!!.

[Retributar]

I am playing the Axis...and starting my Attack on France,

The French attacked a tank army which was at strength 8...and reduced to strength 3!.

Then a French Corp's moved alongside the damaged Tank-Army [at strength 3], but then proceeded to attack a full-strength entrenched German Army in a city???.

Whynot cannot the AI...be adjusted to try to take advantage of opportunities such as preying on severely weakened units ... so as to eliminate them?...instead of assaulting dug-in full-strength unit's?...when instead, an easy-kill is readily available for them?.

[Edwin P.]

Another item,

In a game today vs the Axis AI, the game finished with 4 German HQs in Italy (and no other German units in Italy), 1 German HQ in Bulgaria (supporting 3 German units) and six german units in Northern Germany with no HQ support. Also Berlin and Munich fell to Soviet units because they were not garrisoned, and Soviet Armor advanced from outskirts of Warsaw to Berlin and Munich in 1 turn.

That said, the Game vs the Allied AI is very much improved.

[rleete]

Originally posted by Retributar:

I am in total agreement with you Agamemnon !!!.

Me, too. Let the AI have a few minor "cheats" to balance things.

Might be nice to run up to that level 1 Ruskie tank expecting an easy kill, only to have it upgrade to a level 3 right in front of you!

[Vic Rattlehead]

Any improvment on Russia upgrading their units would be nice. FOR ME, this is the only thing that would stall my rollover of Russia.

[Retributar]

FORTIFICATIONS!!! ... We know that Fortifications protect unit's in them!...however, i would like to see that benefit translated visually to the unit when it is on the Fortification so that it's obvious!.

Example...for an Infantry unit 'On A Fort',... would show, instead of say, a Hard [Tank] defense of 4 [in Yellow],...would now show a 'Hard Defense' of 6 [in White].

By showing a 'Hard Defense' of 6 in White...it would immediately alert you to the fact that your unit is on a Fortification!. Not that that fact is not noticeable...but, it's just to help make that reality more obvious to the player!.

[Retributar]

MMP Production in CONQUERED lands!.

Suggestion!...if it hasn't already been suggested!.

When Countries are favourable to your Diplomatic Effort's ... they will willing join your cause...and so here i would like to see...MAXIMUM MMP OUTPUT!.

However, when you CONQUER a country, MPP production i would think, should result in an affected/reduced MPP OUTPUT!,...by how much i don't know...but just for example...FAVOURABLE COUNTRY = 20 MPP's....UNFAVOURABLE/CONQUERED COUNTRY = 10 MPP's!

What Say You!!!.

[Rolend]

No doubt Retributar, I would think national production output would be higher in a country if they willing joined you vs you invading their country.

Not to mention the destruction of infursturcture that goes along with an invasion.

[jon_j_rambo]

Not really! Just because you have a "friend", does mean they will give up all their goodies. Go in & headcrack them, everything you want is yours. Guys, quit grasping at straws for change.

[Blashy]

MPP is 100% if a country joins you.

MPP is 80% if you conquer it.

That is already in the game.

[Rolend]

Ahhh makes since and thanks for the info Blashy. Another reason to try and get Spain to join instead of invading