John Kettler Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Shoot and Scoot All hail this new command! Gone are the days of end of turn/beginning of next turn peekaboo. Now, simply show your tank or whatever (really hope by release this includes any vehicle with a weapon mount) where to go to get LOS to the target and where to backpedal to get back out of it. When the turn executes, you'll see your AFV race forward, obtain LOS, fire, and immediately reverse from sight. This can only be done once per turn but is most effective. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 What is a K-Kill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Originally posted by John Kettler: Shoot and Scoot All hail this new command! Gone are the days of end of turn/beginning of next turn peekaboo. Now, simply show your tank or whatever (really hope by release this includes any vehicle with a weapon mount) where to go to get LOS to the target and where to backpedal to get back out of it. When the turn executes, you'll see your AFV race forward, obtain LOS, fire, and immediately reverse from sight. This can only be done once per turn but is most effective. Regards, John KettlerNow does the vehicle fire untill target destroyed, or does it just shoot a couple o frounds and backs off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THumpre Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 A K-Kill is a hard kill, i.e. a vehicle that you know is knocked out. In the game guns will continue to fire at target vehicles for a certain length of time (death-clock) if they don't see a catastophic kill or the crew bailing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Man, I had a nice long post typed out, but the board wouldn't let me post more than 8 images and erased everything I typed. Oh well. I had a great time and it was nice to meet everyone. Much appreciation to ACTOR for his time and hospitality. Instead of retyping all my comments, many of which have already been mentioned, let me just say CMBB is going to rock! Here are a few pics: Nothing like playing on a screen six feet high! I don't know how I am ever going to enjoy CM on a CRT after yesterday. Guess what the first mod is going to be. ACTOR at the controls with the projector in the foreground. ACTOR briefs the men as we contact Rune to figure out how the hell sewers work. We couldn't just RTFM, since there is no FM yet. Daisy, the mine dog, is about to deliver her deadly slobber covered payload. The first screen shot of the Human Wave! It was great to meet all of you. Playing CM with a bunch of other geeks in the same room is really the way to go. [ July 21, 2002, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Pvt. Ryan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Colonel_Deadmarsh, K-kill is weapon analyst's shorthand for catastrophic kill. In CM terms, the tank explodes. The other form of K-kill is formally defined as the state in which the target is 100% M-killed (zero mobility) and 100% F-killed (zero firepower), even if there is no explosion. In practice, this kind of assessment can't readily be done except by climbing on the wreck, tracing projectile paths and meticulously tabulating and assessing the resulting damage at the component level, including various crew members. For example, a dead driver/mechanic is only a partial M-kill, but a ruined engine is 100% M-kill. I believe the damage criteria discussed are also in the context of infliction of that damage level within five minutes of impact, known in the trade as the 5-minute assault criterion, the idea being that the unit hit must be put out of commission near instantly, there being no time for the engine to overheat or some bearing to slowly deteriorate. Think close air support scenarios and you'll understand why. If tanks are in the wire they must be killed now, not half an hour to an hour later as they "bleed" to death from the cumulative effect of numerous small mechanical or personnel injuries. From what I could see of the shoot and scoot moves executed, the tanks fired one round and then reversed. Hope this helps. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Just admire how much fun you guys are having! Okay, serveral notes: 1. The list is just huge! My brain aches just by remembering all. I see there are a lot of improvements. Say entenchments: will your foot soldiers start digging-in automatically when they stay for a while? 2. Will there not be any CBB? 3. How will the duration of the "death clock" be determined? I guess I missed previous posts. 4. About vechicles entering "factory". I am not sure if I get it right. Is it possible to leave one "piece" of wall open so vechicles ma enter or the floor tile says it is a building so no vechicle can enter? 5. I guess we can still re-create some of the CMBO battle with lead-lease tanks. There won't be any bocage right? 6. How is the "operation" in CMBB, then? Thanks. Instead of childishly shouting "I want the game now!". I am now making a count-down note to Sept 20. I know I can wait and keep myself living up to at least a week after Sept 20. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Shoot and scoot was one round, if a target presented itself, and reverse. You could only do it once per turn with a given vehicle. One of the most striking features of the game is the vastness of the maps. It was cool to see three platoons of German tanks advance across open steppe. The DOODADS really enhanced the cinematic atmosphere. We did a level 3 flyover of the battlefield and someone noted that if the German tanks were replaced with M48 Pattons it would have looked just like a scene from "Battle of the Bulge." CMBB looks like a fully MODed CMBO right out of the package. The majority of the vehicle textures appeared to be done, although there were some "clown cars" racing around the battlefield. The new infantry faces were very nicely done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Pvt. Ryan, Great pictures! My friend Jim is on the extreme left in the human wave, while I'm the guy on the stairs laughing in another image. THumpre's next to Jim. Beyond that, my memory simply fails (takes me a while to master names), except to note that the Boxster, alas, wasn't mine. The pictures give a good feel for our end of the sneak preview, but there was another group around a PC with 17"(?) monitor in the den. Had forgotten our evil human wave idea. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Originally posted by GriffinCheng+: Just admire how much fun you guys are having! Okay, serveral notes: 1. The list is just huge! My brain aches just by remembering all. I see there are a lot of improvements. Say entenchments: will your foot soldiers start digging-in automatically when they stay for a while? Units do not dig in after a battle has started, same as in CMBO. 2. Will there not be any CBB? Don't know what that is. 3. How will the duration of the "death clock" be determined? I guess I missed previous posts. We didn't talk about that, but see the death clock post. We did see how the death clock would effect game play though. 4. About vechicles entering "factory". I am not sure if I get it right. Is it possible to leave one "piece" of wall open so vechicles ma enter or the floor tile says it is a building so no vechicle can enter? As best as we could determine, vehicles cannot enter factories. 5. I guess we can still re-create some of the CMBO battle with lead-lease tanks. There won't be any bocage right? No Bocage. 6. How is the "operation" in CMBB, then? We didn't look at the operations, but ACTOR said they have been improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Originally posted by John Kettler: ...the Boxster, alas, wasn't mine.Boxster??? Droooooooooool! I got to examine a German Racing Silver one close up for several minutes last week. I walked all round it wiping the saliva off as I went... BTW, John, you appear to be a lot older than I had pictured you in my imagination. I somehow had the idea you were still in college, though possibly working on a master's. Guess I'm way off on that, huh? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 I have some pictures of the inside of a factory, but I don't know if I am allowed to post them. If someone with the authority gives me the go ahead, I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 I mean: Still not Counter Battery Battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 22, 2002 Share Posted July 22, 2002 Hehe... Note how all us Kalifornians have such nice tans. Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Great Thread! Thanks to all who posted. I have been away for a few days so I'm thrilled to come back and read about how the importance of GOOD gunnery optics (on EITHER side) have been modeled and incorporated into the game. thanks for the AAR's and the GREAT review and Pics of the event. This MUST be the BEST pre release publicity BFC could ask for! Great work! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 ACTOR, If there has been any significant, better yet major, change in artillery procedures in CMBB, would you or one of your Beta Test confreres please post the details if possible? I ran out of time at your house way before I ran out of questions to ask or things I wanted to see. I was dismayed to hear that there are no scheduled or on-call fires yet (Why? Such fires were essential, especially to the Russians, who lacked artillery flexibility), but maybe there's hope if we can at least call for a specific number of rounds, order pauses, and control rate of fire. Please let us know ASAP what improvements have been made to artillery procedures and capabilities. Did you like the magazine article? Am still alive, so guess I didn't violate the no talk items. Thanks! Michael emrys, Well, I may not be the oldest member on the board, but I am definitely not the youngest either. This is to be expected, given that I'm 47 and have been a wargamer for 35 years, starting with Avalon Hill's TACTICS II. I'm college educated, and spent over eleven years as a military analyst specializing in the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact, at Hughes and Rockwell. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEJEFF Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: One of the most striking features of the game is the vastness of the maps. It was cool to see three platoons of German tanks advance across open steppe. The DOODADS really enhanced the cinematic atmosphere. We did a level 3 flyover of the battlefield and someone noted that if the German tanks were replaced with M48 Pattons it would have looked just like a scene from "Battle of the Bulge." Great review guys! Still, I wonder at how the 'vastness' of the maps referred to is going to impact on the size of PBEM files for some of us poor NON high speed Internet / NON TCIP playing sods. I believe many e-mail accounts are limited to 2MB file sizes in or out and there are definite downsides to even handling moofie files of between 1.5-2 MB's in size, using a 56k modem setup (like this lil' black duck - believe me I'd upgrade to high speed in a flash, but where I live, 1 way satellite is the only option and the prices SUCK!!) Presumably, this is not an issue that you guys have been able to suss out at this point in time. If not, is there any chance of running a couple of scenarious in that direction (say a small/medium/large map then noting the moofie file size?) I just hope it won't be a major hurdle for the full enjoyment of CMBB by PBEM'rs who might be eternally limited to smallish QB's and Ops. KUTGW!! AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 AussieJeff, I'd be a whole lot more concerned about your point were it not for the fact that a) my hookup is 28.8; and my present rig simply can't run CMBB, since it lacks speed and more importantly, sufficient VRAM. Still, I believe your suggestion about PBEM file size checks is both practical and eminently reasonable. Trust me on this, though, even if you couldn't play huge battles, CMBB is so much better that you'd still be thrilled to have it. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Here's a summary of some new orders in the game. If I screw this up, someone in the know please correct me. Sneak = Crawl in CMBO; unit moves with maximum stealth on its belly; emphasis is on remaining totally unseen. Contact = Sneak in CMBO; unit moves quietly but while erect and continues assigned move until fired upon, whereupon it halts and returns fire. Assault = This is a wholly new command intended to model fire and movement by a series of rushes; this command provides substantial cover benefits, but the rate of advance will be slower than the old run, which was severely abused by some in CMBO. Run = Maximum rate of advance, maximum energy expenditure, and maximum exposure to fire. Those used to running at MGs need to fundamentally rethink their tactics...or die. Cover Arc (all) = Engage all targets inside the arc; ignore those outside of it. Cover Arc (armor) = Engage only armor targets inside the arc; ignore all targets outside the arc. Shoot and Scoot has been previously discussed. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEJEFF Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Originally posted by John Kettler: AussieJeff, I'd be a whole lot more concerned about your point were it not for the fact that a) my hookup is 28.8; and my present rig simply can't run CMBB, since it lacks speed and more importantly, sufficient VRAM. Hehe. Thanks for pointing out to me that I am indeed spoilt to have a 56K modem + 2.2G Northwood 'B' PIV + 256MB PC2100 DDRAM + piddly 32mb GEForce 2 GTS Pro Graphics card. I feel your pain - really!! Still, I believe your suggestion about PBEM file size checks is both practical and eminently reasonable. Trust me on this, though, even if you couldn't play huge battles, CMBB is so much better that you'd still be thrilled to have it. Regards, John KettlerOk John. Thanks. Let's see if anyone comes through with some PBEM tests then. And of course, I will be buying CMBB regardless. THAT goes without saying!! Cheers, AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Aussie...I think you should be fine, as I havnt noticed any noticable increase in size. Maybe one day telstra will make their cable prices more reasonable. At the moment they keep putting them up! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEJEFF Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Originally posted by KwazyDog: Aussie...I think you should be fine, as I havnt noticed any noticable increase in size. Maybe one day telstra will make their cable prices more reasonable. At the moment they keep putting them up! DanHi Dan! Thanks for that re-assuring info re: the CMBB moofie file sizes. Actually, I suspect Telstra are trying to maximise their capital base before the final "Little Johnnie's Fire Sale" sign goes up. The cunning bastiches!! AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 A Reminder to all... The sneak preview was exactly that. Features can change and things may be included or not included. We want you to discuss the game in general terms, but since changes are possible, or impressions are incorrect, please do not post more detailed stuff. The beta testers are extremely busy at the moment, and are not available to test things for the general masses. We don't want more questions comming at the BFC crew, as they are working exceedingly hard on CMBB, and each time they have to answer stuff here, takes away time from the game literally. Hang in there, once CMBB goes gold, the BFC crew will have a little more time to answer things. As one of the beta testers just said, they have been testing for almost a year, and are still discovering new things. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 I enjoyed the review John Kettler but had the bad feeling I was reading a closed beta evaluation. I may be wrong in sensing this but discretion would be the better part of valor. Regards, Phhhhht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Originally posted by ASL Veteran: There were also numerous little tweaks in the commands. Notably the "Hide" command limits some of the things you can order your troops to do (like you can't target when 'hiding'). Does this mean a hiding squad cannot target an ambush marker? If so, won't that make it even harder to pull off correct ambushes? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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