RESULTS OF THE SO CAL PREVIEW

[ACTOR]

Well it's all over, including the shouting!

I would like to thank all of you that came over for being such good guests and for your participation in the beta testing process.

Now, if you would, please post your thoughts on what you saw.

Edited - I wanted everyone to get a peak at what we were looking at.

Also, here is a roll call of the folks that I had in attendance. (If I missed you, let me know)

Erwin

Gillfish

John Kettler

AGCent

ASL Veteran

Rautaug

Thumpre

Pvt Ryan

Captain Foobar

MarkEzra

Thanks,

Bill "Actor"

[ July 21, 2002, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: ACTOR ]

[Gyrene]

Well, bother, I couldn't make it...I couldn't weasel out of work.

Oh well, I'll wait for the release.

Gyrene

[Panzer_Meyer]

C'mon guys, post your impressions and post your AARs!!!

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Originally posted by Gyrene:

Well, bother, I couldn't make it...I couldn't weasel out of work.

Oh well, I'll wait for the release.

That makes two of us.

[MarkEzra]

What a great way to view this outstanding new game...Wide screen! But I'm getting a little ahead of myself...LOL

My thanks to Bill for this rare opportunity. He was an outstanding host and a very patient guide as we entered a brave new world in wargaming.

Today I saw things that actually took my breath away. This is step forward in wargaming certainly equal to CMBO in magnatude. BTS has not provided a fresh coat of paint to their fine CM engine. They have taken bold steps to provide the most intensive wargame experience to ever grace a grogs computer. All the accuracy, fidality and just plan fun we have found in CMBO is just a mile marker on this huge leap forward. As you all know by now there are very specific rules as to what can be mentioned so think me not coy. When you get this (and I recommend when you order, choose the fastest mail service you can!)you'll see /hear and feel what I'm talking about. A fantastic rush.

[ July 21, 2002, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: MarkEzra ]

[Foobar]

Today we bombed a factory, just to watch it die I already posted in the original thread, so Im gonna paste it over here.

Yes, Major props for the Liquid Plasma display, that was incredible!

Actor,

Thank you very much for your hospitality! If someone who was there knows, I think we ought to get a "guestbook" going in this thread to mention all who were present.

I will try to answer specific questions if anyone has them, but to summarize, this game will definitely be worth the wait, and will stand as the definitive tactical combat sim.

Graphics were very immersive, I have not seen any comments from other sneak peeks that exaggerated the claims of CMBB. After seeing up close and personal, the features added to CMBB will take our play to a much higher level, with new complexities and subtleties to our tactics. This is not going to be reducable to a "numbers" game.

Thanks again Actor, and it was nice to meet all of you in person!

[ July 21, 2002, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: *Captain Foobar* ]

[THumpre]

A definite 3 wOOt day. From what I saw, CMBB is gonna be enen more addictive than CMBO, graphics are superb.

Another thank you to Bill for his very generous hospitality in hosting the preview my wife says she's glad ya liked the cookies...

[John Kettler]

What a wonderful experience in every way! ACTOR was a terrific host (thanks!) and took copious notes on problems noted, areas of concern, and things the group felt strongly about good and bad. You would never have known that he was moving in a week, so affable and attentive was he to his appreciative guests, handling everything that came his way with aplomb. His home was spacious, clean, had plenty of seating, and had two computers, one in the living room, to which the digital projector was linked, one in the den, and both linked via TCP/IP when desired.

The family dog, Daisy, was a sweet delight, adopting a whole bunch of us and enthusiastically playing fetch, often snagging balls in midair.

The guys (zero distaff presence noted; ACTOR please post list of attendees, handles only if needed) were personable, fun, highly articulate and well informed. Any one of them would be welcome in my home.

What? The game? Thought this post was all about the cookout...and the beer! Beck's (from Germany)

and Tinkov (from Russia; beer of the Tsars).

When I arrived with my friend, Jim Murphy, orientation was well begun. The first thing I noticed, after getting over being stunned by a 5' (?) wide projected digital display on the wall, was the slick Deanco interface, notably the beautifully designed and fonted menus, which are considerably expanded. Things which also stood out were some sort of systematized, discrete grenade tracking at the squad level (ACTOR didn't have details), color coded graphics representing armor protection levels for tanks, and color coding of penetration values, both, I suspect, included for the benefit of people having little familiarity with World War II weapons and their capabilities. I personally neither need nor want those last two features, but I believe their inclusion is reasonable from the standpoint of expanding the number of players. Some of us, myself included, didn't really like the severely muted directional arrows, which have poor contrast with their buttons. By contrast, there was general acclaim for a clever on-screen feature which enables fast rotations and pans. Will say more about this last item if authorized to do so.

There were many things I wanted to see, but what we did see and do was so engrossing that time flew. Suddenly it was six o'clock and time to go, for Jim's dog way down in Long Beach was due for, shall we say, an urgent walk.

Things I Got See

Prep Fire

Attention future Russians! This is how you're going to get most of your fire support, unless you consider 12 minute fire request-to-shot out to be

responsive. The good news? It comes right away, since it represents a preplanned bombardment. The bad news? Once you've decided for sure where that prep fire's going, you're done. There is no walking the fire once the fire order is issued, so plan well. Having your FO in LOS will yield a tighter pattern, but if scatter isn't a problem, you can drop the fire anywhere you want. Be warned.

The spread will be considerable for map fire. Hint: put the FO in cover but where the FO can see the target. Oddly, that's all the FO can do. The FO can't adjust prep fire. Adjustment's reflected in a tighter pattern? Definitely saw no spotting rounds. When the rounds fall...things will be radically different, but the results on the recipients will be the same. May be able to say more on this later. Speaking of FOs, they now come in two flavors: the traditional radio-equipped variety and the somewhat cheaper, less mobile ones tied to field wire and its relatively slow rate of advance. Notably missing from the artillery roster

is that while prep fire is available, there are presently no scheduled fires after prep fire. Thus, you can't conduct an advance knowing that fire will be falling on successive positions on the axis of advance, while worrying about not being there in the impact zone when they arrive.

Covered Arcs

These come in two flavors, which can be thought of

as "shoot everything" and "shoot only armor." These commands are enormously powerful tools, among other things enabling players to duplicate historical tactics by assigning tanks in formation their own sectors of responsibility. Tanks can now travel in diamond formation, with one tank covering forward, one looking left, the other right, and the trail tank's covering the rear. These commands are all about improved reaction time, better target selection, and prevention of militarily stupid behavior. Of course, covered arcs can be a huge help to the defender, by not only preventing premature position disclosure, but also by preventing ill-advised engagements. It now becomes possible to have AT guns ignore wandering infantry

and wait to open fire until tanks appear. Important discovery. Conscript units can't use cover arcs, being too poorly trained and disciplined for that level of tactical sophistication. We found this out while trying to get a conscript MG to set a cover arc.

Armor command and control

When it takes two minutes to get an out-of-command,

flag controlled tank to move, you'll understand that armor warfare will never be the same again for us. The flexibility and span of command for units with radios in every tank will contribute powerfully to understanding how the Germans were able to do so much with relatively weak tanks early on and for much of the war. By contrast, the Russian player soon learns to keep formations tight. Protect your platoon leader!

Optics

They're in and make a huge difference, especially

when the LOS can be upwards of 3 kms. in length

and you have high grade crews to maximize the gunnery benefits good optics convey. Armor and guns now have optics ratings. Welcome to the world in which things like 88s and the Nashorn are actually useful, and the Tiger comes into its own. I played an engagement in which German armor went up against dug-in Russians. Every time a gun opened up, it was met with a hail of accurate return fire, usually either smashing the gun outright or putting so much HE and MG fire on the crew that the crew broke and ran.

(ACTOR, I checked my references, and the lesser German tanks seem to fall into the "push" range at worst for penetration vs. the tanks in question, which would explain what we observed. These same German tanks have substantial protection, but I was unable to find any penetration figures for the TIQs' guns against those lesser German tanks. Those same tanks were appropriately kitted out for the engagement, but perhaps there ought to be several configurations available for purchase, if you follow my drift. This may be extended to other types as well. I believe the engagement was strongly affected by the kit employed, though perfectly date appropriate, as was the model used of the TIQs, being the breed's last hurrah. You and your confreres definitely need to talk to Rexford about the peculiarities of the lesser German tanks when hit by several projectile types employed today. I don't know for sure what was fired at us, so it's hard to evaluate the rightness

of observed terminal effects. It may've been lots of bad Russian luck and great German luck, especially the bigger stuff, may've been projectiles failing, or it may've been a

fundamental modeling problem in terminal effects.

Also unknown is how the penetration model treats this particular German target, given its design. What's reported may not necessarily work that way inside the code, for obvious reasons).

The computer's acting twitchy, so will resume with

a follow-on post.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ July 21, 2002, 04:55 AM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[John Kettler]

Continuing the massive debrief...

Airpower

It's now much more dependable and comes in many models and weapon loadouts. If you thought bombs, rockets and strafing were fun... No 3-D airplane graphics. Don't know whether we'll be seeing type specific shadows.

Big Nasty Armor

If a Freudian shrink would have a field day with your big gun obsession and high ammo capacity's not an issue, then you're likely to be very happy. Of course, if the other side drops something big close enough, your guys might find themselves abandoning

their vehicle even absent a direct hit. I saw that happen today in a spectacular, bizarre duel, part of which was done by "clown cars," weirdly colored partial models or their stand-ins.

Field Fortifications

Repeat after me. "I will not attack entrenched troops without proper tactics and support." Do this and you may not die horribly. Earlier, I watched Russians try to attack entrenched German troops in an impromptu fight. The attack died on the start line (separation between lines a few hundred meters to get the action going quickly) and never got to the wire, with the supporting tank being K-killed by the third or fourth round from an entrenched AT gun. Speaking of wire, it has been completely redone and looks like a proper wire apron obstacle. Trenches have riprapped sandbags on the front and rear edges and are placed in the same way as barbed wire. There's also code which automatically puts friendly units adjacent to a trench into it when setup's complete. Did not get to see mines at all.

Molotov Cocktails

These are listed separately from a squad's grenades

if present and can ruin your day. One came whistling out of nowhere but happily missed my Russian tank and exploded. Presumably, similar German weaponry works along the same lines.

Sounds

Not only are sounds considerably improved, but many are distinctive. It'll take less than two seconds to learn to distinguish between Russian MMGs and the MG-34. Russian voices are cool, but I have no idea what they're saying. Can't comment on Finns, Romanians, Italians, etc., as I never played with or saw them. High velocity tank cannon fire may or may not need work. What I heard was through a fully cranked subwoofer and sounded more like ACW or Napoleonic cannon than the sharp crack such weapons normally make. Several people commented similarly.

Doodads

Wheat and weeds(?) look great and add marvelous texture (camouflaged tanks, in wheat, view 1 =

spectacular), but other developments, though long awaited, look strange. Parts of the cemetery look great, but Orthodox crosses are causing problems. Crates in the factories are better than nothing, but are regrettably not a substitute for heavy industrial machinery. Call the floors barren. No sunflower fields. Sigh.

Troop Appearance

Chins and necks are only the beginning, for the men have faces, officers hats, and tankers appropriate headgear (or will have). Many other surprises await. Pistols now look like specific models and are finely detailed. Several of us found the hypererect posture of the men to be disconcerting and asked for a strong note in favor of a more realistic hunkered posture.

Troop Handling

Testing found some problems here, with repeated requests for various group commands for functions which now have to be done squad by squad or tank by tank. An example is the hulldown command. There is presently no way to issue a general order for this action. This becomes a pain with a full tank company in play.

Technical Errors

One case was found in which a certain German tank was listed as having the wrong length in calibers.

This was reported to ACTOR as a note, but what is unknown is whether the error was a simple plugging in of the wrong number or whether the accompanying gun table was also for the wrong gun. This should be checked and rechecked rigorously for all cases where a given bore weapon comes in multiple barrel lengths.

More to come.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ July 21, 2002, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Kwazydog]

"One case was found in which a certain German tank was listed as having the wrong length in calibers."

Actually, it looks like you guys were wrong on this one. Some late model vehicles on the type you were using apparently did indeed have the longer gun, and it seems you guys were using a late model.

Dan

[ July 21, 2002, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[John Kettler]

The Decorated Battlefield

The much requested crater feature is in, with capabilities ranging from tiny to vehicle swallowing, under full user control. No idea whether this can be automated. Tanks can start dug-in, but still can't leave their positions. No present dead vehicle capability. Still no single vehicle width roads, but ACTOR suggests wood on both sides and a roadblock. It's too bad that we can't have narrow roads because we're stuck with 20 meter wide tiles. Maybe CMII will give us better options. No grain elevators

and no smokestacks. Grr.

Multiple Turret Vehicles

Sadly, they're out. According to ACTOR, Charles

tried everything he could think of, but he couldn't get the AI to run each turret independently. Guess

we lose the "coffin for seven brothers" as a result, even though it's an odd case.

Vehicle Graphics

At view 1, I thought I was watching Panzer Elite, not CMBB. As long as you watch from the track guards up, the models are amazing, even breathtaking. Surprisingly, the expected "hippo in a tutu" (think "Fantasia") effect, caused by only minimally rendering the suspension and tracks, wasn't all that obvious. Helping this were the doodads, which did a wonderful job of realistically

hiding much of the trackwork and suspension.

Vehicle List

Lots of goodies here, but what we saw was far from complete. Far. Still, the grogs will find some pretty obscure stuff. No motorcycles and sidecars

with MGs. A pity. Positively no horses. Only Allied tanks are Lend Lease.

Visuals

I wouldn't want to be a modder, given many things I saw. Terrain's amazing; trees are gorgeous. Saw wonders best left (for reasons including my hide)

until game release. Look and feel have been radically improved in myriad ways. Major shocks await. Anyone with a weak bladder should plan on wearing Depends for the first few games. Certain support weapons need considerable work, but what we saw may've been early prototypes.

Scenarios

Didn't get a count, but the list is long, the choices diverse, the print small.

Death Clock

Really a kind of reaction test, there is a period of time between when a tank dies and when the foe knows it. How soon this is known relates to the various states of the observing tanks (buttoned vs, open, morale, casualties, etc.) Meanwhile, shots keep pouring in. This tends to increase crew casualties and can result in dangerous target fixation. K-kills will warp your head, but I shouldn't say exactly why. Suffice it to say that we reacted strongly when they occurred.

Armor Damage Results

There is more variety in terms of location and severity, generating enormous pucker factor when the first line of the hit result appears and is taken in, followed by the vital details concerning

what really happened. Gunnery improvements, especially optics, make combat more lethal, but it is quite possible to put many shots into a target only to watch them all bounce off, break up

or do no significant damage. With command and control, optics and vast maps factored in, you need to completely rethink how you use armor.

Summing Up

CMBB is much closer to being a new game than it is to being a sequel or mere follow-on. It will assuredly cause rejoicing among gamers and consternation among commercial rivals. It is worth the wait, the hand wringing and the uncontrollable

Pavlovian anticipatory drooling.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Andreas]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

"One case was found in which a certain German tank was listed as having the wrong length in calibers."

Actually, it looks like you guys were wrong on this one. Some late model vehicles on the type you were using apparently did indeed have the longer gun, and it seems you guys were using a late model.

Dan

Repeat after me - the "Handbook of German Forces" is not a reliable/accurate source.

[John Kettler]

KwazyDog,

Interesting! The only reference we had handy was TME 30-451 HANDBOOK ON GERMAN MILITARY FORCES, and according to it, there was an error. Von Senger und Etterlin's GERMAN TANKS OF WORLD WAR II is ambiguous. It says the lesser value gun now had a ______ muzzle brake on one page, but on the other says that all ___ tanks serviced and maintained in Germany were fitted with the better gun. There's also mention of an uparmoring order. To further confound matters, the TIQ is listed in the data tables with only the lesser gun. Period. I hope you guys have authoritative references there in order to resolve these important questions. I used to think Von Senger und Etterlin was.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Panzer76]

Thanx for the AAR, great job!

[Kwazydog]

I have no idea what sources were used actually as that isnt my department Picking up the open copy of the Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WW2 I have on my desk though, it is described pretty clearly

"From late March '43 the 7.5cm Kwk 40 L48 was installed instead of the L/43, with a total of 1275 recieving the L43"....this leaves about 410 getting the L48 gun.

It also states the same in Pzkprf IV in action, which is the other book I happen to have on my desk, hehe. On top of that, Im sure Chalres had other sources.

Dan

[ July 21, 2002, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[Titan]

Great job fella's ,i love that wide screen and some of those big looking holes in da ground

[Capt Ro]

needless to say im impressed.

now i caint hardly wait a couple

more months for the release.

thanks for the info guys

Ro out

P.S. oh yeah you guys that got to meet

Actor are now amongst the privaliged.

[ASL Veteran]

I too want to thank ACTOR for being a wonderful host and I will echo the sentiments of those posted above. We had as much fun in an internet chat room as we did playing CMBB! Automobile grogs also would have been left drooling by a certain car that one of the guests arrived in (I believe it was John Kettler's, but it was there after I got there so I don't know for sure and I didn't ask) .

I'm sure I drove the farthest to attend this little shindig, but the information I got out of it definitely made it worth the effort. My focus was probably not on CM itself, but how certain things in CM act in relation to ASL. I came away with a mixed reaction, but the disappointments would only be relevant to an ASL scenario converter grog (Grogs come in many flavors I guess). Only spending about six hours at the helm of CMBB was barely scratching the surface though, and I'm sure that players will be discovering new things daily for several weeks after they get their new games. I even anticipate that there will be a bit of a 'tactical' learning curve for CMBB, even for hard bitten veterans of CMBO.

From a general play standpoint the game does have a different feel than CMBO. I think this different feel is primarily a result of the much improved infantry combat. The suppression model is pretty robust and the way the infantry interacts on the map definitely slows the pace of the game down in a positive way. The screen shot above looks to be the first little battle that we played where I was being overrun by a horde of Russians (who were all sitting in the room that you see the screen shot taken in). There were several things that caught my eye in that little scrap ... one of my AT guns penetrated a T-34 but didn't knock it out. The T-34 immediately buttoned up and drove wildly back toward his own lines. I don't really know what happened exactly, but it would seem that armor morale is working just fine.

We also had the opportunity to close assault a T-34, and the assault command seems to work the way it was discussed on the message board. When you select the assault command you can then move the cursor over the enemy vehicle and a little message will pop up inviting you to "follow" the enemy vehicle if you are close enough (I don't know what the maximum range is, but the cursor will just be an assault move order if you are too far away). Once selected, your squad will attempt to close on and destroy the enemy vehicle. However, the command can be cancelled by the Tac AI if your troops recieve fire or if the vehicle moves away too rapidly. At least it seems to work that way - one close assault and two other attempted close assaults won't show a player all the nuances of a command. From what I could tell close assaulting a tank will now be a tool that is added to all player's bags of tricks and will be done regularly in CMBB.

There were also numerous little tweaks in the commands. Notably the "Hide" command limits some of the things you can order your troops to do (like you can't target when 'hiding'). Crawl is gone from the command menu, but "Sneak" seems to have taken its place, just as "Contact" seems to have taken the place of "Sneak". The new commands have already been addressed sufficiently elsewhere so I'm not going to go into all that. I did notice that my artillery observer kept getting his "count down" interrupted whenever he was pinned down by enemy fire. I had to keep putting a new target line out repeatedly, although the count down was reduced in length in subsequent turns (after being pinned down). I guess you could just say that the commands available to your troops will now vary dependent upon their quality and their disposition.

Sewer movement is absolutely HUGE and will have a tremendous impact on city fighting - especially when in combination with the way infantry combat works now. Sewer movement will likely have more of an effect on larger scenarios though. I doubt it will be used much in small scenarios. The tactical uses for sewer movement are a whole new bag of tricks that I'm sure some players will specialize in. I would have to rate sewer movement as one of the biggest things in CMBB tactically since it will open up whole new vistas for those who enjoy city fights. There does not appear to be any graphical representation of sewer entrances, just an additional command that can be selected by a unit.

I have to say that the sounds were impressive. For some reason I especially liked the tank engine whine much better in CMBB. The jibberish that the Russians were speaking was quite varied too, although I haven't got the slightest idea as to what they were saying. Kudos to Matt for a magnificent job on the sounds!! One thing that was mentioned was a desire to tone down the volume of the ambient sounds. I too would like to see that, or at least have a means of adjusting the volume of the ambient sounds. Thunder and rain is so loud in CMBO that it becomes distracting. However, that one was apparently still up in the air.

We can't really speak about units because of our agreement, but as John's already danced around it I will say that I was both happy and disappointed in the unit/fortification selections. From what I can tell though, Dan and Steve still have A TON of work to do, and when Steve says that a certain post cost us a tank model ... well you better take him seriously :eek: . This was one of the more critical areas for me so the information I gained in this area alone made the trip worth it - even for knowing the definite disappointments. I have to remain cautious on the happy reactions too though since it is clear that there is much graphical work left to be done on the vehicles.

I have to admit that I was mildly disappointed in the factories - although the disappointment was anticipated in advance. I guess I can't really complain though as they are fairly revolutionary for CM, but there are aspects of them that aren't entirely complete for ASL purposes. Having factories in their present form in CMBB though is better than not having them at all!! I can also see where this method of building factories can really be expanded in future CMs for other types of buildings as well. Some were wondering how factories were built (checking CMBB preview rules, sees nothing there) ... well you basically build them by putting walls out and connecting the walls together to make a giant building. My disappointments for factories were specifically no vehicle sized entrances so tanks can't drive around inside, and the ability of troops to occupy the second level inside (I don't think of factories as having a second level inside). They could use a few more doodads inside too (now that's just being nitpicky ). The side effects of those missing features of factories may allow factory tiles to be used in other large buildings - perhaps in combination with the standard 20 meter square heavy buildings. The only drawback would be visual since the factory walls all look essentially the same (as fine as they do look Dan, excellent job!!) and your whole city would look like a factory building.

Finally, I just want to give kudos to everyone at BTS for the efforts they've put into CMBB. This has all the look of a sure fire hit, even bigger than CMBO.

[Dirtweasle]

...and when Steve says that a certain post cost us a tank model ... well you better take him seriously.

I wonder what this is all about?

Sounds like this is some sort childish of tit-for-tat... if true. Why would the entire game community be penalized. Anyone know?

[chrisl]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />...and when Steve says that a certain post cost us a tank model ... well you better take him seriously.

I wonder what this is all about?

Sounds like this is some sort childish of tit-for-tat... if true. Why would the entire game community be penalized. Anyone know?</font>

[Cameroon]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />...and when Steve says that a certain post cost us a tank model ... well you better take him seriously.

I wonder what this is all about?

Sounds like this is some sort childish of tit-for-tat... if true. Why would the entire game community be penalized. Anyone know?</font>

[Dirtweasle]

Ok, I remember that long reply, then the back and forth dialog too. I misunderstood the qoute above to mean someone posted a detail that was "secret" so we all must pay. :mad:

It did seem out of character.

[ASL Veteran]

Sorry for the confusion on that Dirtweasel. Cameroon and chrisl got the intent of my remark correct. It was more of a general statement than a specific one. One other interesting thing that I noticed was that the AA pintle mounted MGs on tanks fire at attacking aircraft in CMBB. I don't know if this was the case in CMBO or not, but it is most assuredly the case in CMBB. If I think of anything else interesting I'll try to add it later.

Dang, thought of something else already. You know the old broken enemy squad runs toward the trees your MG is occupying because it is the best cover around issue? Thing of the past from what I can see. Squads now don't seem to run toward enemy units, but always away. Open ground now appears to be viewed as a form of cover to infantry, who will remain in it while under fire.

[ July 21, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: ASL Veteran ]

[flammenwerfer]

Only Allied tanks are Lend Lease.

John-

Not sure what you mean?

[John Kettler]

(Carefully inspects self and verifies head has not been forcibly removed and that posterior is neither in tatters nor flames. Satisfied, he proceeds).

ASL Veteran's post neatly illustrates why I shouldn't do long posts in the wee hours, though I apparently barely managed to avoid forbidden disclosures in spite of near brain collapse. I meant to cover sewer movement, got distracted, then forgot. I will say, though, that it can only be done from building to building (large/heavy? isbas?) and can yield some disturbing outcomes, like units getting lost and winding up back at start or someplace unexpected.

Armor

Armor can be bought by the platoon. Didn't get to see rarity in action, but it's in the vehicle tables, and some vehicles are so abundant they can be bought at a discount. ACTOR reported getting quite a deal on a certain light Russian one. T-34s are frighteningly fast.

Katyushas

Several Russian rocket FOs were seen on the list, but I couldn't see well enough or fast enough to say for sure exactly which types were there. But if Russian rockets are in, the BM-13, being the most common, must be. Unfortunately, I had to leave before I got to see a Russian rocket barrage. Sniff. Presently, there is no onboard launcher, nor did I see much for DF artillery assets. These were truncated lists, though.

Chat Board

The chat board festivities amounted to several minutes of both unintended and deliberate hilarity as ACTOR tried to find us first a scenario with sewer movement, then the procedure for actually getting into the sewers. We died over the response we got to a suggestion that tanks could be moved via sewers, cracked up over the obligatory sewer movement's being gamey, and had some fun with Warphead(?) and his alleged Canadian accent, turning his hehe into eheh, to the mirth of many.

With such a fun and silly group online, I wonder how anything substantive ever gets done.

I should add that in the battles and skirmishes fought, I was Russians with armor, infantry and artillery on the attack and Germans attacking with armor only. Consequently, and also because I was more concerned with general battle direction, I did not see the nits and grits of infantry combat. What I did see was the havoc German fire support and MG fire wrought on the poor quality troops we had. Let's say that the officers were kept busy sorting out the men. Had commissars (none seen) been present, there would've been field executions.

Will post more if I remember anything else.

Regards,

John Kettler