Kraut Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Seems to me that Crack SS grenadiers should not panic after taking three bursts of MG fire at 500 meters, especially when under command. And watching a whole veteran platoon panic and rout after taking a few 82mm mortar rounds is kinda flaky. I guess panzers are the way to go in CMBB ... kinda sad, cause i like infantry. Kraut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Try experimenting with the way you use the movement commands. I've had some experiences like you describe, but after spending some time trying things out it's getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 The problem is the vast open spaces which is usually a bad thing for infantry to get caught in but it's where tanks thrive. However, despite my usually high proportion of panzers in my force selection I ALWAYS take some infantry for those unsure situations. A properly executed infantry assault is a sight to behold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Of course they should not panic. Bullets can not harm them. They are Übergermanaryansteelchinnedblondeblueeyed Superwarriors, who defy death and laugh at danger. They chew steel and pee napalm. 82mm mortar rounds are a mere trifle to them, and MG bullets at 500m will be swatted like pesky flies. I too am disgusted by the weakness that BFC has chosen to give them in this game. I am sure it is an anti-German and anti-Soviet agenda of the worst kind. I too demand that my ÜberSSmen shall be treated to a nice dose of the Überpotion of Invincibility, that will make them laugh at danger, catch bullets with their teeth, and spit them back at the enemy. Yes! BFC, fix or somefink, and do it quick. Or else I shall sulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 So I take it you're in agreement with Kraut then? Perhaps he should re-name himself "Krautboy"? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 After playing Yelnia Stare on the demo I resigned myself to the fact that it would not be possible to move troops under any kind of fire. After having played a fair bit of CMBB, I've found that it isn't that straight forward. Units will often try hard to complete their move. Sure they'll hit the deck, but they keep crawling and sometimes get up for another spurt again. They seem to do better when they're moving to somewhere with cover that's already got some friendly units in it. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Why buy infantry? Simple. Try this test. 1) Set up an urban battlefield, give the defenders AT guns and tank hunter teams. 2) Send in the tanks. 3) Die horribly 4) Repeat steps 1-3 until convinced that your tanks really are dying horribly 5) Now repeat with infantry support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freetup Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I love infantry. If you have trouble moving them try smoke screening dug in positions with mortars or arty. It may just give you the breathing room you need to get your infantry into an effective position instead of cowering in houses and treelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I buy infantry units for Parabellum to blow to bits with heavy artillery. He seems to enjoy it greatly, and it also give me the illusion of doing that matters durring the turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGSF Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 SS are overpriced Hamsters!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by Dirtweasle: I buy infantry units for Parabellum to blow to bits with heavy artillery. He seems to enjoy it greatly, and it also give me the illusion of doing that matters durring the turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by Dirtweasle: I buy infantry units for Parabellum to blow to bits with heavy artillery. He seems to enjoy it greatly, and it also give me the illusion of doing that matters durring the turns. He buys a mean coffee, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: He buys a mean coffee, too Only for guys with red jackets and Zhukov's memoirs under their arm who I pick up at train stations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by ParaBellum: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas: He buys a mean coffee, too Only for guys with red jackets and Zhukov's memoirs under their arm who I pick up at train stations... </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Originally posted by OGSF: SS are overpriced Hamsters!!!Say, I've heard that before somewhere! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 To get back to the topic (was there a topic...?) There are a number of techniques that will help your infantry to survive and complete their mission. Smoke has already been mentioned. Supression or elimination of enemy MGs, mortars, or guns is a good thing. Get them to reveal themselves either by using reconnaisance by fire or by sending out a single half squad or two to draw fire. Then plaster them with your own mortars and direct fire weapons (this is a perfect job for your tanks). Pick a part of the enemy line that can be isolated either by smoke or terrain and concentrate on it. If he can only shoot with part of his force while you can use all of yours, you have him at a serious disadvantage. Then you can either roll up his line, destroying it piecemeal, or ignore it altogether terrain permitting, and move on to the objective flags. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Michael E, You are absolutely correct and concise in your analysis. Truthfully, I can't add much more, ... but I'll try. After having disposed of the enemy's tanks, one's tanks are then direct fire HE platforms to pound the enemy infantry in covering terrain into slag. Further, isolating a portion of the enemy's line by terrain or by smoke is most correct. Usually, I use the former. Indeed, I have frequently used the latter. Ultimately, maneuvering one's forces so that one has many units (lots of friendly firepower) shooting at a few enemy units (a small amount of enemy firepower). This is truly the key to BO & BB. Cheers, Richard [ October 27, 2002, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: PiggDogg ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 If I'm just idly walking down the road, and suddenly come under fire - even if at 500m - I'm going to be more than a little cautious. However, if my commander has told me that we might come under enemy fire, and to advance accordingly, then when bullets start flying I may be more prepared. On the other end, if I'm in a foxhole and all's calm and quiet and I see a bunch of SS walking idly down the way, you can bet my fire will be well aimed. But put some suppressive fire in my area with maybe even come cannon/mortar fire, and my aim may be off and fire more sporadic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime^ Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 I find infantry are the best defensive units in the game. After my first QB, a 5000 pt game defending a large town, my tanks were either all dead or out of ammo, i had 3 SMG groups in the town, and a few more dotted around the map. The 3 at the front (corners and middle), held off a massed infantry and vehicle assault (AT rifles were doing some very heavy damage) for 15 turns (about 250 men, fending off an attack of at least 700 + vehicles). I couldnt believe the damage they took - being in a building obviosuly helped.. but I achived Total Victory - even though i had only 430 men left and 2 heavy tanks (1 had no ammo of any kind), yet the germans had over a 1000 troops and about 8 vehicles, 3 tanks. I think I tricked them in to a ceasefire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 I'm playing PBEM "A deadly Affair" as Russian. Three platoons of molotov-equipped Partisans try to stop a light armored Wehrmacht column, in '43. I had bad omens for that one :eek: ... but to my amazement the Partisans guys perform heroically (they're Vets), and up to now they KOed one AC, immobilized another, got three HTs, maybe even a fourth, and killed some passengers and crews. They themselves have hefty losses, but are far from sissies ! Obviously the hilly and wooded terrain helps, and they won't be much good vs a Tiger ... Another example is Jaegermeister : I never succeeded in keeping the russian tanks alive, but the ingantry usually did its job and allowed me to a decent result, as the big cats were not able to retake the objectives alone. All this shows that infantry shouldn't be underestimated, but you can't expect it to take on armor without proper AT weaponry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraut Posted November 1, 2002 Author Share Posted November 1, 2002 Hey Andreas, Veteran and "Crack" infantry should NOT panic and rout when they come under moderate or light fire. They are supposed to remain composed, seek cover and return fire. They don't even go into the pinned state for longer than a few seconds before they start running. Rediculous ... According to the manual veterans are soldiers who have had good training and have seen combat. So i assume they have been in similar situations already and are well disciplined. Yes, there might be some soldiers in the squads who are replacements, but having the whole damn platoon to panic and run off the battlefield is just insane. I do not want supermen in this game. But i want my guys who are more seasoned to remain in a stable mental state and not start soiling their lederhosen at the first sight of the enemy. Kraut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Originally posted by Kraut: Hey Andreas, Veteran and "Crack" infantry should NOT panic and rout when they come under moderate or light fire. They are supposed to remain composed, seek cover and return fire. They don't even go into the pinned state for longer than a few seconds before they start running. Rediculous ... According to the manual veterans are soldiers who have had good training and have seen combat. So i assume they have been in similar situations already and are well disciplined. Yes, there might be some soldiers in the squads who are replacements, but having the whole damn platoon to panic and run off the battlefield is just insane. I do not want supermen in this game. But i want my guys who are more seasoned to remain in a stable mental state and not start soiling their lederhosen at the first sight of the enemy. KrautI've played some games with vet and the occasional crack troops and find them generally pretty hardy, even vs. MGs @ a range of 500 meters. If they are in any kind of cover, they might go to Alerted, but nothing worse. If they are Assaulting across open ground, the same should happen, but they usually finish their without crawling. If they Advance in the open, they will often finish their move, but sometimes they will end up crawling, and sometimes they will be Shaken or Pinned. If they are Running, they will probably suffer a casualty or so and go running back for cover, though. Running is *much* more hazardous than in CMBO. Also, I think bad CMBO habits are what causes us to think that 500 meters is a long way away for a MG - if you read historical accounts, attacks are always getting stopped by MGs at 500 meters; in CMBO, regular and better troops completely ignored MGs firing at them as they ran across the open fields. But once again, in CMBB, my vet troops haven't had any difficulty Assaulting across 30 meters of open ground while being fired upon by MGs at a range of 500 meters or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Originally posted by Kraut: Hey Andreas, Veteran and "Crack" infantry should NOT panic and rout when they come under moderate or light fire. They are supposed to remain composed, seek cover and return fire. They don't even go into the pinned state for longer than a few seconds before they start running. Rediculous ... According to the manual veterans are soldiers who have had good training and have seen combat. So i assume they have been in similar situations already and are well disciplined. Yes, there might be some soldiers in the squads who are replacements, but having the whole damn platoon to panic and run off the battlefield is just insane. I do not want supermen in this game. But i want my guys who are more seasoned to remain in a stable mental state and not start soiling their lederhosen at the first sight of the enemy. KrautHere we go again with another "My infantry can't sprint over open ground" thread. Look fellas, CMBB is far more accurate wrt to infantry than CMBO ever was...is it more fun? Maybe not but definitely more accurate. I suggest perhaps you change your tactics. Somehow I have managed to do a hell of a lot of damage with infantry BUT I use more realistic tactics to do it. Vet and Crack are going to panic and rout if you send them into situations of certain death or where they get chopped to hamburger..flesh and blood is funny that way. Infantry are designed to hold ground. Tanks and Arty take the ground and infantry finish the job and hold it. If you use your infantry like CMBO you are headed for disaster. Stop blaming the game and try something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 If you use the RUN command in CMBB while under fire, expect to Die-A-Lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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