Cemetary Hill

[antawar]

Tell us your horror stories. The best I managed is a draw and I played it 9 times. I'm getting obsessed. Luck plays a big part since I tried the same strategy twice and I got a total defeat and a draw. Go figure..

[Slappy]

I picked up a major on the first try, but was helped by some bad AI placement at setup. I can't imagine playing this against an even semi-competent human and taking the town.

I placed the IG, MGs and 50mms near the front of the woods facing the town and used them for suppression.

The infantry pushed up the extreme right flank supported by armor to cross the road and get into the woods.

Once you've turned the flank, its a matter of continuing pressure from the front and moving the assault force up the road to the church.

Feel free to drop any building giving you problems with the IG.

Worked for me.

[Preacher]

Played this one a few nights ago to see what all the fuss is about. Yikes! A tough row to hoe for the Axis. I suffered a major defeat. Looking forward to trying it again.

Preacher

[antawar]

slappy, did you try playing it with the default deployment.. computer deployment is pretty bad sometimes.. but try to win with the default deployment hehehe

[Kalar]

This scenario is a poster child for my "Probes shouldn't have VLs" thought. Assualts take fortified positions, probes examine the terrain and defenses PRIOR to an actual assualt. The object shouldn't be to take the flag (unless the awed defenders just skedaddle ), the objective is to find stuff out!

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by Kalar:

This scenario is a poster child for my "Probes shouldn't have VLs" , - - - "the objective is to find stuff out"!----

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Not in this CMBB world!

Krazy

[Mies]

I got smacked too on this one, with two of my 222's happily smoking before I even has a clue how it happened. Very depressing unfolding of events from there. I could barely keep my man alive, let alone launch anything that resembled an attack. Suffered a major defeat in the end.

Mies

[Andreas]

Hehehe - it was not my intention to be evil in this one. I guess switching the Germans from 38(t) tanks to PSW222 did not do a lot to help them...

Having said that, one of the beta-testers complained it was 'too easy' for the Germans. You just do X and then Y, and roll up the defense

[Agua]

Andreas,

"Sadistic" is closer than "evil" to the apparent motivation underlying the design of Cemetary Hill. Let's put it this way; I find "Blackshear.cmb" to be less difficult than Cemetary Hill. I've gone at it about five times now, mostly trying flanking variants on the Russian left, and have done no better than a minor victory, and this was giving no experience or force bonuses to the AI. OUCH!!!

[Warren Peace]

I've played it about a half-dozen times (default setting) and the best I could get was a draw. There is just too much Russian firepower!

I have won against the AI placement, as it does weird things with the minefields and the bunker. In one game it placed the bunker directly against a buiding, so the only line of fire was into the building! (I hope they fix this in the patch).

Warren

[demoss]

This scenario is a poster child for my "Probes shouldn't have VLs" thought. Assualts take fortified positions, probes examine the terrain and defenses PRIOR to an actual assualt. The object shouldn't be to take the flag (unless the awed defenders just skedaddle [smile] ), the objective is to find stuff out!

A better way to handle that would be flags that, once changed to the "attacker's" control, don't change back. So you "found out" what was there and scored the points. You'd probably want lots of 'em.

[Dschugaschwili]

I have played this scenario only twice until now (both times with extreme FOW and AI sticking to scenario default) and the results were 30-70 for the first and 50-50 for the second game. I have to give it a third try because both times some of my troops disobeyed some orders in phase A, resulting in unnecessary casualties during phase B. (Whether A and B are identical to X and Y in Andreas' post is of course unknown to me ).

Nice work, Andreas! You're responsible for my first defeat against the AI.

Dschugaschwili

[Terence]

Im about to start this for the third time, and Ill be damned if I can figure out what to do. Ive Nearly any way you approach this, it seems you get pinned down and cut to bits...

Anyone (Andreas, you sadist!!) care to post X and Y preceeded by Spoiler warnings???

[Foobar]

Demoss,

You stole my sig that I stole from Nippy!!

[old southern gentleman voice] Sir, I demahund satisfaction... Now where, I say where are my dueling pistols? [/old southern gentleman voice]

[Ingtar17]

What is the big fuss? I must say that I did quite well at this map. A major victory! Of course I was playing Allies....

[PvK]

Ach! I just tried this one (extreme FOW, no adjustments, default AI/Soviet position), and ouch.

The 20-minute time limit is also silly, but many CM scenarios do that, I guess to force immediate action. I should just add 60 minutes or more to all scenarios before playing them, since I don't like being forced into reckless moves for an artificial time limit. However, in this case, I don't think the extra time would have helped much.

I sent infantry carefully forward, and managed to get into some advanced positions without getting shot. I then engaged in a bunch of ammo-burning suppression/attrition, assuming foolishly that for once the briefing from HQ would not be a parody of what to expect. Instead, as usual, I was being ordered to sacrifice my men to take a building objective in 20 minutes from a superior enemy.

The Soviet force is in several ways stronger than the assaulting German force. Fortunately, my cautious advance discovered this before my men were committed to a massacre, so we were able to call off the assault after taking only a few casualties. I hadn't seen any sign of anti-armor defenses, so I cautiously brought up the AFV's and they were able to wear down some positions, but then one of my halftracks got ambushed by an AT gun that the infantry hadn't noticed, and the tac AI unfortunately didn't reverse it a few meters to safety for whatever reason, so it sat there and took five or six hits in a row until it was knocked out.

Except for losing the halftrack, I'd call it a draw or minor advantage to me, since the situation was extremely dangerous, and I got good intelligence on the enemy position and weakened it, and took only a few casualties.

Now the thing to do is to call in a bombardment, then maybe do a night assault with a reasonable force.

PvK

[OGSF]

AHAAH!! Third try and I got a tactical victory...would have been even better but for the gamey AI flag rush!

I think I have repressed recollectoins of my first try...too painful even with therapy. The second try was on the right track, but I led with my jaw as usual and got smacked....bodies piled on bodies, and all German.

But the third try was golden! Brief description of approach I took is below, don't read if you don't want to know....

*SPOILER ALERT*

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*SPOILER ALERT*

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*SPOILER ALERT*

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*FINAL WARNING - SPOILER ALERT*

I put the IG, two HMGs, one mortar and a single platoon in the center of the map on the edge of the woods, all hidden. The rest of the troops and armour and one mortar hid opposite the woods on the Russians left flank.

I sneaked a platoon forward on the flank, twenty yards a turn, watching to make sure they didn't get tired. Rested for a whole turn when they needed it. Folllowed behind with the rest of the rabble, all sneaking through the bushes. Eventually the Russian infantry open up from the tree line along with an AT gun. My mortar and a PSW take out the AT gun, after I lost one PSW to it. The rest of the hordes gun down the Russian infantry.

Across the road and swing left, rolled up the flank to the church. As front line Russians stood up to take pot shots, the IG and HMGs picked them off from the front.

Eventually assaulted my single platoon from the front as my main body reached the church.

I think I wouldn't have stood a chance in a PBEM.... :^)

[Matias]

Ok, I'm a relative CM newbie granted, but I don't understand the descriptions folks posted here of how to eke out even a tactical victory. Tactical help / advice would be much appreciated!

SPOILERS on my previous attempts!!!!

I've played it twice - the first time was blind, but I'd read it was a tough nut, so I went in slow and tried to suppress everything as I advanced into the woods on the Soviet left. Then I tried to roll up the flank, but found a line of infantry dug in behind wire supported by mortars at the egde of the graveyard! I was completely unable to move up the road since all my support was in the woods out of sight. The guns picked off two of my vehicles, though I did take out the bunker and one gun. My attack stalled.

The second time I pretended I didn't know the locations of the bunker and AT guns - but was cautious beyond what the briefing would have led me to expect with my vehicles. I was able to take out the bunker from the woods. And I tried to really suppress everything, lay down some smoke and assualt the Soviet left most trench with two platoons. Same result. I ended up with a toe hold surrounded by hostile fire none of which could be suppressed by my other units down in the woods. I kept all my vehicles, but they didn't really do me any good!

I guess its basically a "reverse slope" type defense in depth, once I crest the hill my spearhead is unsupported. I can't flank it cause I'm out of map. So how is everyone here getting their heavy stuff into supporting positions, cause that seem to be the key?

[PvK]

It doesn't sounds like we are winning. A few of us have managed a technical win versus the AI when we have foreknowledge, but I expect even these wins are coming at the price of heavy casualties.

What the winners seem to be doing is sneaking troops and armor through the bushes and forcing an assault up the road to the church.

I consider my solution to be historical and appropriate. Be cautious, and give up as soon as you determine they are dug in and too strong to assault.

Then ask for a proper assault force with artillery support, and wait for nightfall. The original scenario takes place at dusk anyway. That is, mod the scenario to take place at night, allow 60 minutes for the assault, and to include two 105mm arty spotters, and set them to start of the scenario by bombarding all around the church. It would make sense to replace the recon infantry with regular dismounted infantry, but that's not so important. Wait for them to fire off all their ammo, and then advance carefully. This is what I think a real commander would do, and I managed to not only win, but keep my losses minimal. (I took 11 casualties in the first scenario and inflicted 16. Then in the second I took 19 casualties and inflicted 126. My total friendly KIA was only 7.).

PvK

[Matias]

Ha! For some reason that reminds me of Star Trek II, "He never faced the no win scenario - he reprogramed the computer so that it could be won." (or some such)...

[Lindan]

hehe,

IIRC I tested this jewel during the early beta days. I can't even remember the result (I remember the fighting but not the AAr screen). I'll give it a try tonight and see if I'll get a spanking.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Matias Duarte:

Ha! For some reason that reminds me of Star Trek II, "He never faced the no win scenario - he reprogramed the computer so that it could be won." (or some such)...

Yep! I typically bump up the time limit on CM scenarios, because I don't like being artificially forced to charge headlong into destruction without proper caution, and there is almost never a good reason for the time limit to be so low.

In this case however, no amount of time is enough to take the objective without historically unacceptable casualty levels. Unless maybe you could trick the AI into wandering off of its defenses.

PvK

[Guest Mike]

The first time I played this I set the AI to chose its own positions and defeagted it quite easily.

It placed a platoon in the woods on its left/my right and they were toast quite quickly, while the bunker got setup in the field behind that wood and was similarly easily handled.

By this time I thought the Russians didn't have any AT weapons - so I advanced up the road & loast an a/c quickly for my temerity.

But I still won in the end 70-something.

After reading about it here I tried again with the default setup - I think I gave up after 10 minutes!!

I tried attacking up the right as before and was surprised to find no opposition there.

But as with everyone else getting out of the woods to the cemetary proved more than my guys wanted to handle!!

My h/track even went berserk and charged the AT gun!! The results were predictable!!

Must try again some time - 3rd time lucky?!

[Holien]

I will be surprised if anyone can win this with the default set-up for the Russians.

If you do please post and let us know how you did it.

H

[James Crowley]

Played this PBEM as Russians - German attack was cut to pieces. I felt then that there was an imbalance so tried as Germans v AI; this produced 35 to me 65 to AI.

My feeling is that there is ;

a) Insufficient time for the German side to develop an effective attack, without taking too many risks and therefore incurring heavy losses.

b)Either the Russian side is too strong and could maybe be reduced by a platoon or more.

Or the German side needs to be boosted with at least another platoon of infantry and another Infantry gun.

c)Russian player should not have the option to place minefields; they should be padlocked. It is too easy to adapt the defence to the information, given in the briefing, that German forces are assembling in the woods on the left flank. In reality minefields would already have been in place.

As it stands I really cannot see anyone getting any where near a victory against a competant human player or getting better than a draw against the AI most of the time.

Still, it was good fun carving up the attacking force