What happens to CM when there is no theartres left?

[History Buff]

Has anyone thought of this? I was playing a very old wargam First Battle, (yeah those old Hex systems), which covers wars during the Cold War (1945-1989 or whenever you consider it ends).

It got me thinking, could the CM engine be moddeled to do the middle east, vietnam, korean conflicts?

I know the theartres after CM:BB is North Africa/Italy, and then German expansion in 1939-1940). I remember hearing that the Pacific war was not a priority and that WW1 would be lame for obvious reasons. So why not the Cold War after WW2.

Combat Mission X : Cold War

Sorry if it is a bit off topic but it was just nagging me.

[argie]

There is a little lobby for Korea...

[The Commissar]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by argie:

There is a little lobby for Korea...<hr></blockquote>

Well, technically, Korea was during the Cold War, so it would fall under that division. Id like to see it myself, personally, as well as some more modern stuff.

Time will tell, eh?

[Bullethead]

I think BTS eventually should develop "CM:X Engine Company". This would be a simulator for training firemen in commanding interior attacks. By the time BTS runs out of theaters, I expect we'll already have building interiors and realistic interior fires modeled. Even field telephone lines, which could be tweaked into hoses.

[offtaskagain]

I don't think Korea would require much tweaking of the game engine. It would be fun to play Russian equipment against the Americans.

[Slapdragon]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bullethead:

I think BTS eventually should develop "CM:X Engine Company". This would be a simulator for training firemen in commanding interior attacks. By the time BTS runs out of theaters, I expect we'll already have building interiors and realistic interior fires modeled. Even field telephone lines, which could be tweaked into hoses.<hr></blockquote>

What about detailing stinky flatlines, had a few of those last week.

[Bullethead]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Slapdragon:

What about detailing stinky flatlines, had a few of those last week.<hr></blockquote>

Those are just doo-dads on the map.

[Mr. Johnson--]

I'm one of the rare few that can say he purchased Force 21 and also played it.

And the biggest problem with modern day armored warfare in the vitual world is the horizon. You almost need to have the computer draw everything that you could see from the top of a hill. The ranges you have to deal with are immense. How do you deal with helecopters? What is the range of an Hellfire missle?

How do you deal with air power? Or information power? Is one side always going to be pinned down with no suppport because you have to assume that a successful attack is going to be precided by 2 months of bombing?

[Compassion]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by History Buff:

It got me thinking, could the CM engine be moddeled to do the middle east, vietnam, korean conflicts? <hr></blockquote>

BTS has said that with the ranges involved it might be difficult, but who knows what kind f computing power the future will hold.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>

I know the theartres after CM:BB is North Africa/Italy, and then German expansion in 1939-1940). <hr></blockquote>

How about, CM:BO II using the CM 3.. or CM 4 engine?

[Jarmo]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Compassion:

How about, CM:BO II using the CM 3.. or CM 4 engine?<hr></blockquote>

That'd be my bet.

Actually I can't wait to see it, by the time we have CM5, it's already high time to get up to date CMBO, the availlable computer power will make all kinds of neat things possible.

It's an endless loop. Which is good...

[kipanderson]

Hi,

My guess is that sometime BTS will return to NWE 44/45 and then the Eastern Front again. In another eighteen months time CMBO will be three years old and one full engine rewrite behind. Time for a return, it will be showing its old age.

For me, the big three in terms of time periods and setting for wargames, are the Eastern Font and NWE 44/45 in WW2, plus, modern cold war/ OPFOR games. The desert will be fun, but after that, time to return to NWE 44/45. Remember, two games and three years on from now, CM will have changed a lot. Rewriting the engine every two games or so is the key. Close Combat 2 had potential, but because it was just tweaked and tweaked, rather than rewritten, it went no where.

Of course, I am no computer games analyst. CM is the only computer game I play. Just my own spin on things.

All the best,

Kip.

[BFawlty]

All this talk about other areas CM could cover reminds me of the Pacific theatre discussion. I know that is not one that is being looked at, but I was wondering if anybody out there is working on a conversion for the Pacific, ala the Desert one?

[Louie the Toad]

As long as we are speculating, maybe in a few years we will all be playing within a virtual surround video and audio experience. There we can select view levels that would include a tank commander or squad. So projected around us would be the battle as it is occuring .

Experiential Toad

[PVLLVS MAXIMVS]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BFawlty:

All this talk about other areas CM could cover reminds me of the Pacific theatre discussion. I know that is not one that is being looked at, but I was wondering if anybody out there is working on a conversion for the Pacific, ala the Desert one?<hr></blockquote>

I think the problem with that is that no Japanese equipment can be moddled, so it would be the pacific theatre with the Japanese using Panzers and MP40's...

[The Commissar]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Louie the Toad:

As long as we are speculating, maybe in a few years we will all be playing within a virtual surround video and audio experience.

<hr></blockquote>

Well, it not an impossible fantasy, for sure.

I think Ive read in one PC mag or another that thanks to the never-ending race for technological supremacy between computer companies, within 5-10 years we will have computers with 10ghz + processor speeds. Who can even guess what 3D cards will be able to do?

The big question is though, will BTS be able to use such technology to its full effect? Unless they plan to add more members to their team as they go along, CM will always be a tad behind graphically but light years away gameplay-wise.

[skatole]

Good discussion here about returning to East front by BTS

http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=3747

[Warmaker]

They can always go back to previously visited theatres. Why? A better game engine by that time should be up and running. Think of it like this: Going back to NW Europe with a newer, better engine than CMBO.

Doing modern warfare in the style of the current CM is a huuuge undertaking. You're dealing with large distances with the various weapon systems employed. More so if you're in a desert setting.

What theatre would I like to see in a future CM after the Ostfront? The Pacific. The terrain in general just lends itself to an infantry slugfest with nasty surprises. Doing an opposed landing and such would be great. Besides, the huge pacific theatre is often ignored (except maybe the wargamers but it still is not oftenly covered as the European theatre). For the simulation crowd, only Microsoft's CFS2 is the only game built for the Pacific (wasn't that good to begin with either).

There's a ton of great battles waiting to be fought in the Pacific by CM.

[Bullethead]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BFawlty:

All this talk about other areas CM could cover reminds me of the Pacific theatre discussion. I know that is not one that is being looked at, but I was wondering if anybody out there is working on a conversion for the Pacific, ala the Desert one?<hr></blockquote>

A while back I made a scenario of the Battle of Kohima Ridge, "Gerpanese" vs. Brits. I think it worked OK and will send it to you if you want.

It's not so hard making believeable "Gerpanese". The Hotchkiss makes a good Japanese light tank and you can find German squads with almost all rifles. Make them fanatical vets and they work like you'd expect from dedicated Japanese grunts. Not perfect but OK.

[Mace]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by The Commissar:

Unless they plan to add more members to their team as they go along, CM will always be a tad behind graphically but light years away gameplay-wise.<hr></blockquote>

That's a conscentious design decision.

Most military sims are designed to run on high end machines and are thus incapable of running well on all PCs.

CM however is designed down slightly so that is runs well on most PCs.

Mace

[The Commissar]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mace:

That's a conscentious design decision.

<hr></blockquote>

I'd like to agree with you on that Mace, but I doubt it.

Sure, Steve and Charles could probably make some very good looking graphics with the latest technology. Unfortunately, since there is only two of them, that would take much too long. Most PC game sims who use the latest graphical tech have entire teams with anywhere from 5 to 30 men devoted solely to making the game look good.

Never mind what would happen to actual gameplay performance and historical data if BTS concentrated on looks.

They aren't conscenting to lower-end PC users, IMO, but to all the customers who want the game to come out within their lifetimes!

[Midnight Warrior]

I had a thought on a "compromise" on the Pacific theater of operation. Instead of a Pacific only CM perhaps BTS could do an amphibuous version that modeled the actual landings in the Pacific AND in the West (i.e. Normandy, South France, Sicily, Salerno, etc). The emphasis would be in adding the amphibuous craft such as LCT's, Ducks, LCVP's, etc and the beach defences. Perhaps having both Pacific and Western amphibuous operation would widen the appeal. Just a thought.

[Silvio Manuel]

Well whut about the Spanish Civil War theatre or perhaps Japan's attack on China- the massive air support from river-bound 'carriers would be a far cry from CAS' role in CM:BO.

As for the rumble in Spain- I suppose one could simulate it in CM:BO by using only the 20/37/(50?)mm guns. Hmmm, this is making me want to check out the DFDR mods.

[History Buff]

I'd never thought I'd get such an nthusiastic respose, thanks all.

[Brian]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by History Buff:

WW1 would be lame for obvious reasons. <hr></blockquote>

I'd have to ask why? Apart from a greater use of artillery and more of a set-piece nature to many of the battles, WWI isn't in reality all that different from WWII in many respects.

Don't fall into the media trap of thinking that it was all trenchs, Somme/Paschendale slaughter, all the time. There were many different and distinct types and periods in WWI where mobile operations did occur. On the Eastern and Balkan fronts (early period) and in Palestine, manauvre was for the most part, the name of the game. Even on the Western Front, only during the middle two years of the war was the front static from a strategic point of view but tactically, it could be quite fluid at times.

[murpes]

Forget that. What I want is Combat Mission: Gettysburg. A civil war game like this would rock.