M. Bates Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 First of all, can I make it clear that I am looking forward to CMBB and have great confidence in this ambitious game. That said, there are a number of minor and a couple of major problems: Tank projectile is now dark gray (bright in CMBO) Tracers can be modded to some extent, yet are shorter in length than in CMBO Moving the mouse cursor to the side of the screen in CMBO pleasingly rotated the screen to a greater or lesser extent. The camera system in CMBB is now an inferior version of the Myth 2 system Some unit indicators (buttoned etc) now in illogical places (see below) The ALL CAPS font used in places is very ugly compared to the CMBO original The nationality graphic on the bottom left of the screen is fine, yet betrays the rank of unidentified units (example: unknown tank version yet I know it is a command tank) The screen seems to jump more than before when using the direction arrows, though I'm not entirely sure, could just be my machine Camera system: View 3 is the equivalent of a low angle CMBO view, View 4 is a pleasant zoomed out angle, though too far away from units for regular play, View 5 is zoomed out once more, and Views 6 onwards are top-down. More choices than CMBO which is a good thing, but a blend of View 3 and 4 is needed for a proper, playable "default" view angle If camera views are too stay like this, then the unit bases need to be a bit larger in Views 4 and 5. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb New style tank shell. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Tracers from CMBO. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb CMBO screen showing brighter projectile and the shockwave (missing from CMBB). http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBO panel. Attacker and Defender expressed in text instead of graphics. Clean design, the only actual graphics are the flags of the opposing nations. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBB panel. Morale/Victory is a little clearer. For some reason there is a picture of blue sky and green grass (perhaps showing weather conditions). Map of E. Europe possibly included to remind player this is not the Pacific. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBO unit panel. Approximately same layout for AFVs and infantry. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBB unit panel. The green box does nothing, but is used to fill up space used by C/O special abilities. This unit is a "Veteran" (see faint green text) tho it's not stated as clearly as in CMBO. "Tiring" and "Hiding" also lack the clarity of CMBO. This unit is located in tall pines, and a graphic is added in case you forget what tall pines actually are. This unit has hand grenades and various weapons, though all of that info is replicated once again in the pop-up box (along with the exact amount of firepower). The "Atari ST" font of CMBB is quite ugly. [ September 02, 2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: M. Bates ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 (Continued) http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb My attempt at "modding" CMBB, the font has been changed, though it's a bit of a rough job, and the fuzzy gray background is gone, and the black background in modded CMBB could be substituted for very dark blue, very dark green, etc. Okay, whinge over now To sum up, I can live with the interface and mod the bits I don't like. But IMHO - and this is just an opinion - if major stuff like shockwaves are not at the very least an option to CMBB players - then it will be to the regret of a great number of players. (Edit: pictures are now fixed (!) ) [ September 02, 2002, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: M. Bates ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 All your links are broken, but good summation by the way. I was thinking of doing something similar just to get everything on one page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 Thanks, I don't want to be negative, I just hope that a few other CMBO players feel the same way. The gripes over the information panels/screens are very much subjective, but features like shockwaves, camera control, etc, are the key to enjoying CMBB without feel that design designs get in the way of gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Interesting thoughs, I like the way things are now though. Btw its not a beta demo its a gold demo, ie its the same code as version 1.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon L Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 The green box in the lower left corner is actually used to show C&C status. Green for in command, red for out of command. I agree with most of your thoughts to some extent, but for the moment the rest of the game is good enough that I can live with some interface quibbles. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 WAAAYYYYY too much whining on the board about the tracers, I think they're lovely and hope they don't change a thing. On the other hand, I am glad I wasn't the only one to notice the REALLY annoying tendency of the camera to slip to the side instead of rotate when the cursor is not moved to the middle side of the screen - I much prefer the camera action in CMBO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: On the other hand, I am glad I wasn't the only one to notice the REALLY annoying tendency of the camera to slip to the side instead of rotate when the cursor is not moved to the middle side of the screen - I much prefer the camera action in CMBO.Yeah, it took me awhile to get used to that. I usually just press shift and move the mouse to the side I want to strafe to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckman Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Nice Summary. I TOTALLY agree with the camera angles. I know I am struggling with it. I can live easily with all the other stuff though. I also think the unit bases should be SMALLER. They were WAY too much in the way. To the point where I was playing agaisnt red squares with feet hanging off. I would also ungroup the 3 man sq icon. Can we do that? They are so close together I really had to zoom to see what it was, but maybe thats the point? [ September 02, 2002, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Beckman ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCHRD Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 I really like the way the camera moves works now. Don't change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 After playing the CMBB demo pretty extensively the last two days I played a bit CMBO today, still have some PBEMs going. And I've to say that I wished CMBO had the same camera system as CMBB. As with many other things, I think it boils down to personal taste. I especially like the new "6" view, gives a very good overview of the map. Always wanted something like that on the bigger CM maps. But then, I remember how people bitched about the new forum colours... PS: M.Bates I don't consider you "bitching". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Well, for me are the new things just that : NEW. I assume once I'm used to it, I won't have something else anymore. Except two things. The way how I move the camera with mouse. In the lower half of the screen in strafes, in the upper it rotates. Anyway, I think that is not a clear system, the old one was for me just better (especially because I usually ALWAYS rotate the camera). The dark color of shells is the other. It is now impossible to follow a shell. Maybe it is planned that way, if so, what is the sense? [ September 02, 2002, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Originally posted by RCHRD: I really like the way the camera moves works now. Don't change it.Agreed. If you are having problems getting the camera angle just right, use teh [shift]+A and [shift]+Z keys (or is it [control]+A and [control]+Z keys?). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 re: camera movement At first that tendency for the camera to move sideways when scrolling with the mouse rather than rotate the view was annoying, but if you check it out, it appears that it only scrolls sideways when you put the cursor against the lowest ~1/4 of the screen. Place the cursor any higher against either side, and it rotates the view as with CMBO. After realizing where the sweet spots are, I actually like that aspect of the cursor scroll feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 re Camera Movement, In CMBO, putting the mouse to the side of the screen either rotated the screen (a) a little or ( a little more again. CMBB has a system whereby the screen moves to the side, and then placing the mouse pointer slightly higher abruptly rotates the screen. In itself this is bad enough, but in addition clicking the direction arrows produces a bigger "jump" sideways than before. So for myself, there is no satisfactory method to scroll sideways along my frontlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyched Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: On the other hand, I am glad I wasn't the only one to notice the REALLY annoying tendency of the camera to slip to the side instead of rotate when the cursor is not moved to the middle side of the screen - I much prefer the camera action in CMBO.I respectfully disagree with this one. In CMBB, if you move the cursor to the side of the screen on the top half, then it rotates just like in CMBO. If you move the cursor to the side of the screen on the bottom half, then it moves side to side. I much prefer having the option of either movement by using the cursor. Like everything else, it might take a little getting used to, but once learned it should be much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 After playing the betas for several hours I really loved the move/rotate feature. After several hours more I felt I could never go back to the old system. it's very simple: upper half = rotate lower half = move Easy. Fast. Convenient. Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Originally posted by Lindan: After playing the betas for several hours I really loved the move/rotate feature. After several hours more I felt I could never go back to the old system. it's very simple: upper half = rotate lower half = move Easy. Fast. Convenient. Cool!I've got to agree. Took a bit to get used to, but it is one of the reasons I'm NOT playing CMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsd Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Deanco, I hope you never read this awful thread, but if you do: I think your interface design is excellent and a pleasure to use. Everything is clear and attractive, and a real improvement over CMBO. Good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Personally I like the new tank shell a lot more than the previous streak of light. It *could* use a bright orange color on the rear of the shell so it's a bit easier to see (representing a tracer), but I prefer the rest of the shell remain dark, like mortars and grenades. And I love the new tracers. Really well done! The scrolling/rotating took a few seconds to get used to but now that I'm more comfortable with it I like the idea a lot. Though I do agree it would be nice to have a 'tweener' view level between 3 and 4. Would be nice to be able to customize the game a bit (choose what the screen does when you're on the edge: scroll, rotate, or combo. And set the Alt-combo to do the other.). I do miss the shockwave a bit because you could guesstimate the shell size with it, but it's loss isn't that big a deal IMO. I really like the dust cloud that appears after a building collapses instead. Much better than the slow moving shockwave-like dust dome. And personally I prefer the newer text. The landmarks look especially nice. The one deficiency I see with bases is they're almost completely hidden by the foxhole graphic. The only real complaint I have about the interface is I have difficulty seeing what type of ground the unit sits on. I find myself hunting for the graphic and the text on it is tiny. But I imagine it'll be modded at some point. My $0.02. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammenwerfer Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Once you've adjusted, the new camera movement (and views) feature is great...Being able to slide across your 'line' is priceless. The interface and AAR are, well, dissapointing. Not as 'clean' as cmbo... the attack, defend symbols? Hard to find the RESULT in the AAR screen...the colors are 'off' in the info boxes and AAR...Doesn't a M.Cocktail have a rag? Oh and the splash screen seems a bit too 'comic book'... My 2 cents. [ September 02, 2002, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Flammenwerfer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kelly Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 It's still too new for me to make an intelligent assessment. It seems to be much improved. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting Duck Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 FWIW, I prefer the new camera movement system in CM:BB over the old system in CM:BO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 The pink for the stealth bonus question mark has to go. I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Re: Camera movement. Biggest issue is that now I must pay attention to where my mouse is on the screen to differentiate bewteen roll and pan. It jerks me away from my immersion in the landscape and ensuing battle! Obviously and if possible, A toggle for this behavior would make all parties happy. -Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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