What's the point...

[PzTwt]

...of the British 2in mortar? These things really are total battlefield duds IMHO, due to the general lack of ammo.

Now I generally cluster them together under the command of the company HQ (or similar) in order to get at least half a turn to a turns worth of spotted firepower, but even this is really only maximising the benefit of a pretty useless bit of kit.

Yeah, I know the smoke can be useful, but after 2-3 turns of firing, after having lugged these things about, their crews are off to the rear to avoid giving easy casualty points to the opponent.

If I'm playing well (a rarity, I might add) these boys might take out a gun and lay a tiny smokescreen, but that seems to be the best they have to offer.

It seems us Brits equipped our boys with some pretty duff kit - especially early on in the war - I mean, for God's sake, how are you supposed to return long range fire to an AT gun in the desert when the 2pdr has no HE?!!

And whilst I have a soft spot for the Crusader series of tanks (dunno why, just have always liked the way they look) the armour is like tin foil.

Anyway, I digress - anyone else got any useful insights into using the pathetic mortar?

[37mm]

Don't expect miracles

[PzTwt]

LOL. That's a given. Just wondered if anyone has any tips I might be missing...

[Spears]

uuurmmmmm ...................... no!

[Soddball]

IIRC the 2" mortar was still in use in the 1980s - so it can't have been that useless.

It's a platoon-based weapon that can keep up with infantry and can drop a dozen HE rounds on a dug-in machine gun. IMO, that makes it very handy.

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Panzertwat:

It seems us Brits equipped our boys with some pretty duff kit

Some of the Brit gear was equal if not better than the equivilent axis hardware. The Lee-Endfield was better than the Kar98, the 3" mortar was better than the German 81mm. The Matilda II, while slow and lacking HE ammo, was impervious to almost every axis AT gun in the desert during the early years. The 25pdr was a decent field piece, equal to the German 105mm.

[37mm]

Yes it wasn't Brit gear that meant they got their asses handed back to them so often in the desert... twas doctrine

[MikeyD]

One reason for the 2" mortar's ineffectiveness may be the general low lethality for almost all artillery in CM. Who among us hasn't seen an artillery round land directly on top of a full squad standing in the open and inflicting just one casualty? If that's as much as a fat 75mm round can cause those light infantry mortars haven't got a prayer.

[Black Max]

Try using three 2" mortar teams together with a leader as their spotter.

Attacking: Use the above group to suppress the enemy and then rush in with other infantry.

Defense: Bombard the attackers front line (Woods) from a safe distance, taking some of the enemies firepower away from your front line troops.

Hope that helps.

[Dandelion]

I find the 2" a constant harassment. I never get to play Brit so I wouldn't know how to use them. But I agree they should be outlawed.

People use them on me. They're all over the place and they have basically the same function as sharpshooters or HE rifle grenades. Except they're ten times as many.

They never actually kill anything. They wouldn't be half as annoying if they did. They suppress and they shield. And it is all so... irritating.

In the moment you least need them to, they suppress your key weapons, such as machineguns holding attackers at bay, Panzerschrecks taking aim, officers spotting for (real) mortars etc. Voilá, across come their infantry and Panzers unharmed, and you get to watch them move.

And if you manage to catch the Brits in the open, a moment ever so satisfactory when opposing decent foes such as the US, you can be &"%#¤ sure they'll answer with a volley of 2" - smoke or pom-pom - of unnatural accuracy and they all get away.

In a present scenario Pbem they crossed 80m of open killing ground that I had covered with light machineguns - normally certain death to any foe - because we never got a clear shot in the face of that incessant, never ending rain of explosive and smoky peas coming on from all directions (and the following close combat did not go well).

Whenever I move, 2" will halt or slow only one or two squads, in the most frustrating and annoying manner possible, shifting local superiority in that pivotal following firefight to their favour.

Basically they are just everywhere, making life generally miserable. In fact, they aggravate me. I think it would be fair to say that I hate them.

Germans have the 5cm early on, and a measure of untold joy is to have them return fire. You'll not kill any 2", but they won't suppress your key weapons either, and advancing enemies get caught in your arranged, unsuppressed crossfire. But the 5cm goes away, replaced with rifle grenades of not remotely the same effects in the game.

Cheerio

Dandelion

[PzTwt]

Hehe. That's the best post in this topic by a country mile. Nice one.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Soddball:

IIRC the 2" mortar was still in use in the 1980s - so it can't have been that useless.

I understand it was very handy in city fighting. It's ability to fire almost horizontally meant that you could lob shells into windows and other openings of buildings. It was functionally similar to today's grenade launcher, though not as handy. If it had been issued to every section, you'd love them.

Michael

[flamingknives]

Indeed, the 2" mortar held on for a long time. When it finally went away in the '80s, it was replaced by... a 51mm mortar, which is still in use. If CM modelled smoke better, or starshells at all, the 2" would be a thing of beauty and a joy forever. As it is I like them, but using them is something of an art form.

As Dandelion said, they're omnipresent and excellent for just tipping things in your favour. As they can move nearly as fast as your squads, and easily as fast as your Infantry AT weapons, They are by far the most mobile HE chucker short of an AFV.

[PzTwt]

Well, I know I started this thread railing against the drawbacks of this puny weapon, but I just finished a scenario where my faithful and much-maligned mortar section (3 x 2" and a damn good HQ) took out a 37mm halftrack, an 88mm Puppchen AND laid a stonking smoke screen for my PIAT teams to kill 2 Marders.

I think I just fell in love...

[yacinator]

I find the 2in mortar a very useful weapon indeed. As mentioned by other people it can kill open top vehicles (10 point mortar killing a 140 point flamethrower halftrack )and put down a quick smoke cover. True, the smoke cover isn't as large or lasts as long as from a 3in or 81mm mortar, but the heavier mortarts can't follow the advancing infantry as fast as the 2in one can. The other use for the 2in mortar (and the 50mm and 60mm ones too) is fighting in scattered trees/woods/tall pines. What you do is this; have a halfsquad go ahead of your main force and spot the enemy, then sneak up a HQ unit (with a short cover arc) to spot for the mortar and blast away at the enemy. Because he's in woods, the treeburst effect reduces greatly the efectivness of foxholes. The enemy panicks or gets pinned down, you move up your infantry, he gets dead.

[Wisbech_lad]

ISTR they were also used for battlefield signalling - dropping a smoke shell on exactly which hill you wanted platoon B to advance on, or dropping a smoke shell close to where the MG nest is, so tanks or a Typhoon can "area fire" against it, was a major reason why CW kept (and still keep) 2" mortars.

Think these days they are issued with different colour smoke shells, to further improve their signalling use.

[dieseltaylor]

Two pounder not too bad either - in a scenario it knocked out 5 armoured cars and killed 11 infantry - nice.

[yacinator]

Originally posted by dieseltaylor:

Two pounder not too bad either - in a scenario it knocked out 5 armoured cars and killed 11 infantry - nice.

Yup, the 2 pounder is a good weapon. It can kill all the Italian crap, all armored cars, halftracks, Marders, and early Panzer3s and 4s. It's also better than the German 37mm. But, for an extra 14 points I'd rather purchase a 6 pounder(57mm) gun instead.

Originally posted by Panzertwat:

It seems us Brits equipped our boys with some pretty duff kit - especially early on in the war - I mean, for God's sake, how are you supposed to return long range fire to an AT gun in the desert when the 2pdr has no HE?!!

Killing guns is what heavy mortars, howtizers, and artillery FOs are for.

[Alkiviadis]

I strip off my light platoon mortars & group them into a grand battery. When used to deliver a massed firestrike they are excellent at pinning/surpressing any infantry force. I once pinned down a whole SS Panzergrenadier company for 15 minutes with such a battery in the CMBB scenario, "CSDT-B14-Eisen-Faust". I divide the battery into at least 3 sub-batteries. Each fires for 1 minute, each follows the other in firing. The cycle is repeated until: they run out of ammo, the target is destroyed and/or dispersed, the battery itself has to displace or a higher priority fire mission presents itself.

[ December 11, 2004, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Alkiviadis ]

[Other Means]

Also, IRL I assume the mortar would have relatively easy access to ammo re-supply. As they're to some extent behind the lines you'd send someone back to the UC for more.

Come CMx2 that may even be modelled, then you'll see the full reason for bringing them. Also, I've seen stats in the past (don't ask me to check it was years back) that said that of on-field weapons the mortar caused the most casualties. I don't remember it being broken down by calibre though so it may have been all of them. If you're in a non-entrenched position I imagine finding over head protection would be mighty difficult.