CMx2 bones a plenty (renamed)

[flamingknives]

One doesn't care to know, Martin.

[Salkin]

Steve , I have one more question:

Will there be an operational/campaign/strategic element to put the battles in a bigger picture this time ?

(I know it's too early to hope for an answer for this question, but I just hope this important part hasn't been forgotten in development )

//Salkin

[stikkypixie]

Originally posted by Moon:

It'd take quite something before I'd allow space lobsters on MY surface...

Martin

But don't you already have crabs?

*Wonders if he can run faster than a banning*

[Rick]

This thread has proved to be a pretty good bone, if a vague one.

It boggles the mind of someone with exceedingly limited coding experience, how this could be done.

If the new engine truly is this flexible while still improving or retaining other gameplay issues, I think it'll blow us away.

At first I thought this sometime in '05 thing sounded improbable, but if you guys have been working on it since CMBB, it seems possible. It just seems amazing to be doing more than one project at once, but I guess most of us probably do it at our jobs too.

[Juju]

Originally posted by oneirogen:

I want SS Waffen wearing mecha suits equipped with heat rays and jump jets fighting THE SPACE LOBSTERS OF DOOM RIDING ON KRAYT DRAGONS!!!

Goodie, can I have the pearl once the dragon gets it?

Let me just slip that into my lightsaber here.

[Dawg Bonz]

"However, do not confuse a lack of an announcement with a lack of a plan."

Never doubted this one second Steve. I have enjoyed many, many hours of CMx1's engine fun. I still have plenty of entertainment hours left in the CMx1 trilogy. As an entertainment business, BFC has and treated me well.

"Rune reminded you guys that we're making the new game code flexible (for us) so we can give you guys more games in a shorter period of time…."

Sounds like you have a solid plan for maintaining and expanding your business. A continual cash flow makes better business sense. Good luck.

I would like to place the 1st pre order for your upcoming "Space Lobsters Trilogy" as well. I understand Juju is already modding a "UHR-Lobster Lightsaber" to cut through those crusty fellows ‘like butter.’

Thanks for the Bonz,

Dawg

[Yeknodathon]

Originally posted by Battlefront:

We think very far ahead!

OMG, they're planning CMx3, Bone!

[dalem]

Originally posted by rleete:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by oneirogen:

...ON THE SURFACE OF THE MOON!!!

Which moon? You do realize that the Jupiter moon grogs will be all over you for this lack of specific detail?

Great news, we can only hope for an early release. </font>

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Battlefront:

Now, why aren't we spilling the beans? Partly because this sort of thing SHOULD be on a "need to know" basis. We are, after all, a company and it does us no favors to announce stuff to our potential rivals years before we do it. It also gets you guys wound up way too early. Especially if we should switch something around after expectations have been prematurely set.

This I think is the core argument, and I wish people would keep it firmly in mind and behave like adults and stop weeweeing on yourselves in anxious anticipation like a gaggle of four year olds.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Moon:

It'd take quite something before I'd allow space lobsters on MY surface...

See? All you unbelievers, Moon does have a sense of humor...of sorts...almost...

Michael

[ January 02, 2005, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ]

[Pugilist]

Originally posted by Battlefront:

We are, after all, a company and it does us no favors to announce stuff to our potential rivals years before we do it.

Unless I'm completely out to lunch...do you guys even have any direct rivals for the type of computer game you've developed? Not that I'm contesting anything you said about being a business, it all makes sense to me. It's just that this is the only computer game I play, because AFAIK it's the only good one out there.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Pugilist:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront:

We are, after all, a company and it does us no favors to announce stuff to our potential rivals years before we do it.

Unless I'm completely out to lunch...do you guys even have any direct rivals for the type of computer game you've developed? Not that I'm contesting anything you said about being a business, it all makes sense to me. It's just that this is the only computer game I play, because AFAIK it's the only good one out there. </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

<FONT SIZE=0> Emrys is right.</font>

[Pugilist]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pugilist:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront:

We are, after all, a company and it does us no favors to announce stuff to our potential rivals years before we do it.

Unless I'm completely out to lunch...do you guys even have any direct rivals for the type of computer game you've developed? Not that I'm contesting anything you said about being a business, it all makes sense to me. It's just that this is the only computer game I play, because AFAIK it's the only good one out there. </font>

[Jussi Köhler]

Mr Dorosh has taken the role of morale guardian and inofficial spokesperson of the "BFC Fan-Club".

Rather annoying it is...

[Pugilist]

Originally posted by Jussi Köhler:

Mr Dorosh has taken the role of morale guardian and inofficial spokesperson of the "BFC Fan-Club".

Rather annoying it is...

Well, I've got something that should help him in this special and important endeavour.

LINK FOR IMPORTINT INTARNET PEOPLE LIKE MICHEAL DORASH

[kipanderson]

Hi,

It all seems to be very good news…

As I expected not all of the likely forthcoming titles will do the trick for me. I am strictly, no exceptions, a hardcore wargames fan. I am a fully paid up member of the BFC Fan Club only because CM was/is so far head of all other wargames. CMBB, the best in the series, in my view, is as much a form of military history as a big item David Glantz book. Hence I am as much a fan of the CM games, as I am of David Glantz books.

For me what CM does so well, and what is most fun in a wargame, is high-intensity, combines arms, conventional warfare. It is the near intoxicating mix of solving tactical problems, using real world toys and weapons. Squad Leader, in its day, had a very similar effect. The scale, manoeuvre units being squads and individual tanks, is a big part of the magic. In my view, it is the smallest scale at which wargames work. Others will differ, each to their own.

Anyway… for the future, in CMX2 wargames, along side all the usual wish list stuff, it is the nature of any truly operational features that most interests me. Being able to use CMX2 as a tool to resolve the contact battles within a larger operational game. As was the case with CMMC. Setting each individual CMX2 “battle” in greater context. CM can be used for this, as it is in CMMC, but it is a hugely labour intensive business. Almost, overwhelmingly labour intensive business.

The single most important feature change to help make CMX2 more operationally friendly, is the ability to Edit any Saved game. Universal unit files, and map files, would help massively. Such that any game can be Saved, the units then re-launched in the editor and used on any other map.

With the exception of Borg Spotting, the simulation of the actual contact battles was just about cracked with CMBB, unequalled:) but of course, we could all think of the odd tweaks. My great hope is that with,say, a North West Europe version of CMX2 it will be possible to play out the entire Ardennes Offensive, using CMX2 to resolve the contact battles. Better still, in a future Eastern Front version re-fight the entire Korsun Pocket offensive Tracking the battalion combat teams within CMX2 is not necessary, but far less labour intensive building of “battles” by the umpires is needed. i.e. the full editing of Saved games;)

All very good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[Le Tondu]

Originally posted by Battlefront:

I think Rune did a good job, but I'll add 2 bits

Why no announcements thus far, especially considering how we've done things in the past? Because we start talking about it you guys will (rightly so) expect a constant dialog and updates from us. We're simply not ready for this yet since CMx2 (i.e. the new engine) is in a state that doesn't offer much for us to show or discuss just yet. That will change shortly, but for now we're keeping quiet.

As for a "Big Announcement"... we're closer to that each day, but we'd really like to get a few more things ready before we do. However, do not confuse a lack of an announcement with a lack of a plan. The plan we've been following, in fact, was nailed down as CMBB development was finishing up. Yup... we've known what CMx2 and its first release would look like before you guys even played CMBB or CMAK. We think very far ahead! In fact, we have plans for the next 3 years of releases. And no, we're not going to tell you what those plans are either

Now, why aren't we spilling the beans? Partly because this sort of thing SHOULD be on a "need to know" basis. We are, after all, a company and it does us no favors to announce stuff to our potential rivals years before we do it. It also gets you guys wound up way too early. Especially if we should switch something around after expectations have been prematurely set. So what you don't know can't hurt!

We understand you guys are all anxious to know, and better yet SEE, what we are doing. The core engine itself is nearly complete and the game design is almost completely hammered out. Things should move rather quickly in the coming months. And when the time is right, you'll be the first people to hear what we have to say and see what we have to show. For now you'll just have to sit and wait a bit longer.

As for a bone... here's a small one:

Rune reminded you guys that we're making the new game code flexible (for us) so we can give you guys more games in a shorter period of time. 6 years of CMx1 development yielded 3 games that were largely the same as each other (same time period, same general theater, same core graphics engine, etc.). 6 years of CMx2 should yield about 8 games with no boundaries on subject matter and fewer limitations on improving the visual/audio elements. The new engine will allow us to do WWII, sci-fi, current, fantasy, Civil War, whatever... and do it without it taking years to release. If one of our releases doesn't float your boat, it is likely that a few months later you'll get something that will.

More importantly, for you guys in particular, is the fact we can do this without compromising game quality. CMx1 gave us 6 years of lessons to incorporate into CMx2... you'd be a fool to think we haven't fully taken advantage of this great opportunity to make CMx2 able to do what CMx1 wasn't.

We're very excited about what CMx2 will do for gaming. Soon we'll be able to show you why.

That's it for now

Steve

Thank you very much Steve. Seeing that come from someone official gives us an important perspective that was missing when what little we knew was just "rumors."

We never wanted the jar of beans to be spilled. We just wanted to know what was on the label of the jar. We still do, but now we can wait some. Thanks again.

[aka_tom_w]

Um

OK

That is all well and good and it is GREAT to hear from Steve ......

BUT no one seems to be interested in confirming (or denying) the Dec 31 2005 "deadline" for the expected release of the first CMx2 game. (the First of many we are told )

So can we expect a release by the end of this year?

Maybe this is not really an important question, because it would seem that it was only a little while ago that Moon said they would have 'something" ready to ship by the END of 2005, and no one has contradicted that since then.

I can wait a year for the NEXT BIG THING

AND it Better be BIG!

I am VERY sorry to post this and YES my expectations may be way too high BUT over the Christmas Vacation I set up an OLD OS 9 Mac Desktop and played a few games of CMAK for fun, .... BUT I also witnessed more than a few New (current) video games on the Play Station and the X-Box and I was BLOWN away by the graphic Detail.

NOW, don't you all freak out on me for this "not so fair" comparision BUT I looked at CMAK and I looked at Crimson Skies and I was in complete AWE! As much fun as CMAK is and as GREAT a tactical challenge as it does (without question) provide I was totally seduced by the "eye candy" beauty and detail of Crimson Skies and some other car race game that came with the X-Box in a game 2 pack. I was not even interested in playing I just sat there watching my 14 year nephew play Crimson Skies and I was STUNNED by the detail and beauty of the graphics. NOW, I guess I assume, all X-Box and Play Station games are this lovely, and yes I understand CMx2 cannot really aspire to these lofty heights of graphic detail or beauty, BUT I am REALLY REALLY hoping that after this long a wait (18 months?) we willl in fact have some thing VERY visually STUNNING to look at!!

NOW I have NO doubt the good folks at BFC will NEVER compromise GREAT game play for good graphics so I am not suggesting that I am concerned in any way that the game play we have come to expect will be lacking in CMx2 BUT I sure do hope visiuals and the graphic presentation WILL ALSO be cutting edge and state of the ART, (EVEN a year from now when this thing FINALLY gets released!)

JUST about EVERY other computer game out there, any type on ANY platform that has be been released in the last 6-12 months has GREAT Graphics! in fact they ALMOST ALL have STUNNING graphics!

YES I know ALMOST all of them are CRAP and they are lousy and NOT fun to play if you are a wargamer and looking for a tactical challenge, NO doubt about that. BUT They sure ARE pretty!

AND yes I mean ALL of them, JUST about any game you can think of looks more visually attractive and "current" then CMBO CMBB or CMAK's dated graphics.

I am however hopeful because there has been a post on this board somewhere with a VERY favourable comparision between what CMx2 "should" look like and a game current in production that has released a few preliminary screen shots that did look VERY pretty. I am thinking of screen shot of a European town and a stone a rock bridge over VERY nice looking water in a River below in from a competitors game currently in production I think.

Can anyone remind me of the post or the reference or link to that game, which I cannot remember the tittle off?

thanks

All the Best

-tom w

[Battlefront]

Hi guys,

I'll toss out a few more things for you.

First, the CMx2 engine is not some sort of universal simulator. Each game that comes from it will require coding, fresh designs, customized UI, etc. We are not doing the sort of "change the data and call it a new game" system that so many other wargame developers have done in the past. Instead, the CMx2 engine is more like a developer's toolbox that will allow us to create games quicker and with less reliance upon Charles than CMx1 ever could.

We are still shooting for a release about this time next year with another to follow about 6-8 months later. When we announce the first title we will also announce the second, but nothing beyond that.

While it is true that we don't have any direct competition, we do have competition. We also can not assume that there isn't someone we don't know about looking to copy us. That is one reason we're keeping tight lipped.

The other reason is that it doesn't do anybody any good to talk about stuff that may or may not happen three years from now. That's a long time away and much can change between now and then. All you guys should care about is that in three years time there will be more stuff to play with, and if you aren't crazy about it that something more will be coming soon after.

Oh, and the new graphics capabilities of CMx2 is on par, if not superior to, anything you guys have played thus far or are likely to in the next year. It's amazing what can be done with a fresh slate, radically more powerful hardware, and years of experience

Steve

[ January 03, 2005, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront ]

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Better insert a 'not' after 'are' in that 4th sentence Steve.

[Battlefront]

Er... oops Thanks for the pointer!

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

OK then!

That sounds Great

Thanks for the update

and all the news

especially this part:

"the new graphics capabilities of CMx2 is on par, if not superior to, anything you guys have played thus far or are likely to in the next year. It's amazing what can be done with a fresh slate, radically more powerful hardware, and years of experience "

-tom w

Originally posted by Battlefront:

Hi guys,

I'll toss out a few more things for you.

First, the CMx2 engine is not some sort of universal simulator. Each game that comes from it will require coding, fresh designs, customized UI, etc. We are not doing the sort of "change the data and call it a new game" system that so many other wargame developers have done in the past. Instead, the CMx2 engine is more like a developer's toolbox that will allow us to create games quicker and with less reliance upon Charles than CMx1 ever could.

We are still shooting for a release about this time next year with another to follow about 6-8 months later. When we announce the first title we will also announce the second, but nothing beyond that.

While it is true that we don't have any direct competition, we do have competition. We also can not assume that someone we don't know about is looking to copy us. That is one reason we're keeping tight lipped.

The other reason is that it doesn't do anybody any good to talk about stuff that may or may not happen three years from now. That's a long time away and much can change between now and then. All you guys should care about is that in three years time there will be more stuff to play with, and if you aren't crazy about it that something more will be coming soon after.

Oh, and the new graphics capabilities of CMx2 is on par, if not superior to, anything you guys have played thus far or are likely to in the next year. It's amazing what can be done with a fresh slate, radically more powerful hardware, and years of experience

Steve

[patboy]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

I am thinking of screen shot of a European town and a stone a rock bridge over VERY nice looking water in a River below in from a competitors game currently in production I think.

Can anyone remind me of the post or the reference or link to that game, which I cannot remember the tittle off?

-tom w

May be is it Wartime command battle for Europe 1939-45 by Codemasters ? preview summer 2005. www.codemasters.de/wartimecommand/

[ January 03, 2005, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: patboy ]

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Yes, it was Wartime Command but I searched high and low for the original post. I can't remember for sure if I read the original post or Kongs post referring to Moons. I think I read Moons original but not sure now.