WWB Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Ask your questions for the allied commander to the CMAK AAR here. I will answer them as best I can. WWB <font color="red">[EDIT: Sorry for the intrusion I have changed the topic to a general CMAK AAR discussion, so that questions to both the Axis and Allied commanders can be posted here. - Moon]</font> Part Two is posted! WWB [ October 25, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: WWB ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Well done: The two combatants' blow-by-blow is to the point, but with enough color to keep it interesting. Sorry it only goes to turn 10! I want to know if those Marders pummel the Lees near the road house! (MMMM, Lees and MGCs!). When do we get to know the ending? Was also interesting how much both players relied on dust --- for spotting enemy movement, and for concealment kicked up by arty bombardment (*Begin Grog Alert* Even though, from what I've read, the attack by 33 Recon / 8th Panzer was made in the pouring rain *End Grog Alert*). Soooo, is this scenario going to be in the Demo? Is it? Huh? Huh? Is it? Huh? [ October 10, 2003, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: von Lucke ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Btw guys, note that those screen shots are using earlier beta graphics in some places...I think updated shots will be put up soon though. Dan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Excellent job guys. Really well written. Those dust clouds would seem to open up a whole new venue of options, including deception. Nice touch there! Of course it inspires one to want to play, but for the meantime, we can play it through your AAR. Thanks Guys!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavka_lite Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I have just finished reading the AAR...WOW! I do have two questions. I noticed that "move slowly" was mentioned for armor. Is this a new command or was "hunt" used? This question is not meant as a negative statment but a guage of readiness. How "buggy" was the game when you were playing? It looks like another winner for BF.C 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Whaaaat!! You can't leave us hanging like that! You will immediately concentrate all of your waking hours on that game until the AAR is complete! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletRat Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 ***Droooooooool*** Write the rest soon puh-leez! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I take it the Grants will be properly identified as M3 Lees in the actual release? Good AAR, though, I do hope this scenario will be in the demo? Gotta have multi-turrets in there! Is it me, or is that 75mm gun way too long; the pics I've seen show that end of the muzzle at about the same position laterally as the tip of the front fender, even on CW variants with the muzzle brake. EDIT to remove big picture that requirese scrolling hmm, On War does show a longer 75mm gun in this Hunnicut drawing: (image can't be remote linked) http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/plans/medm3.gif And this: Musta been two kinds of 75mm armament for the Lee? [ October 11, 2003, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I take it the Grants will be properly identified as M3 Lees in the actual release? Properly identified as scrap you mean 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 excellent aar! wwb, i expect you to do america proud and kick those hun bastards all the way back to berlin! you know, grab em by the nose and kick em in the pants, that sort of stuff. USA USA USA... lol.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawngnome Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 as far as the M3 goes, this is only beta, so a generic long 75mm could have been used.... looks good, nice battle so far! my only question for the allied commander would be why did you set up your ATG on your far left flank instead of using it near the mosque on a wall or in the orchard? From what i read about the MGMC in the orchard it had a nice area of fire. Of course, it is somewhat hard to depict rises in the terrain from the screenies, but I am just curious. I was rather shocked that the axis commander used 105mm artillery on tanks.... there can't be a whole lot of ammo for that spotter, shouldn't it have been used against suspected infantry positions? Well, regardless, it did spook the M3's. Just guessing, but this might cause the axis infantry a lot of problems when they advance into the open against the allied infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawngnome Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 haha, as far as setup zones I had blanked on that! yeah, I do agree that the armor battle is key, but it is expected for the Panzers to come out on top... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Just in case you guys dont know, we have continue to make CMAK's armour calculations as realistic as possible. Along with our own research Rexford has helped us out a lot with new info, suggestions, and research (as well as all of our beta testers ). Ive been contemplating the suggestion that *some* people didnt find some parts of CMBB as 'fun' as CMBO, and I think I may have figure out why (I must admit, even though I love the eastern front and CMBB, CMAK has an element of fun to it). I think that this could be because on the eastern front one side of another usually had the upper hand, either through technology or numbers (T-34's and KV-1's earlier, Panthers and Tigers in the mid years for the Germans, and Russian numbers and pure power later on). CMAK has a real element of balance to its battles. Ive played this scenario many times myself and the outcome is really based on the player that uses the best tactics and thinks smart. The AI has managed to kick my butt many a time, even though I know what is coming...it is one hell of a battle. Those Lee's can be mean, but the Pz-III's used correct can really cause them some trouble Dan [ October 11, 2003, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................................... Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Michael - That was my first thought on seeing the Grant as well. The 75mm was a short howitzer and looks way too long on the screenie, more like a long AT gun. I'm not concerned by the modern picture of the tank as I suspect the 75mm is probably just a fake, all pictures from primary sources I have seen before show a short howitzer. An example is below, the gun ended at the front of the tank, as in this picture of a Scots Grey's Grant in 1942: Maybe the 37mm looks a bit too large/thick as well? Regardless, the howitzer should definitely be shorter and fatter. The 37mm gun was actually longer than the 75mm, and AFAIK was supposed to be the primary AT weapon of the tank, with the howitzer for HE use on soft targets. Of course it didn't quite work out that way in RL. As extra evidence I offer a photo of Monty's own Alamein Grant in the Imperial War Museum. As you can see the muzzle brake version of the howitzer is also much shorter than the CM model. [ October 11, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Pheasant Plucker ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Paulus Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Nice AAR Hope that the rest of this article is coming soon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Bergman Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Is it me, or is that 75mm gun way too long; the pics I've seen show that end of the muzzle at about the same position laterally as the tip of the front fender, even on CW variants with the muzzle brake.Late production M3s were fitted with the same M3 gun as fitted to the Sherman; earlier built examples had the shorter M2 gun. Late production appears to mean vehicles built approx July '42 to August '42, when production finished. (Some say Dec '42, for lend-lease.) Often these later versions had the side doors deleted also. The muzzle brake you refer to is actually a counterweight which was often fitted to vehicles with the M2 gun; it was required to counterbalance the gyrostabiliser, which was set up for the weight of the longer M3 gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Thanks Marco and Pheasant. I have not seen an original photo of this longer gun in use, I am learning stuff already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 http://www.wargamer.com/articles/cmak_aar_part1/allies/turn3.jpg Incidentally, here is a look at the game interface from that article. (Look to the bottom of the pic, they forgot to crop it out - this was just mentioned in another thread.) How come there are 50 stars on the US flag? [ October 11, 2003, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Taken from the AAR: Action Phase: Lt. Wiedenbach jumps out of his SPW and runs to the top of the ridge. Quickly he scans the terrain, then runs back to his second SPW and explains the situation to the commander. Really?! :eek: Too god to be true, i guess. [ October 11, 2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 Glad you all are liking the AAR. A few responses: I take it the Grants will be properly identified as M3 Lees in the actual release?Official identification is M3 Medium, the "Grant" misnomer is all me, mainly due to a bit too much reading on the brits earlier. As for the guns, pay attention to the angle on the shots. Also, these are late production models. my only question for the allied commander would be why did you set up your ATG on your far left flank instead of using it near the mosque on a wall or in the orchard? From what i read about the MGMC in the orchard it had a nice area of fire.There is another ATG behind the wall near the mosque, and that one was restricted to a setup zone on that side. It actually turned out to do very well, and I like the dispersion. 37mm ATGs are not going to do much frontal killing, at least not until point blank range. Better to be setup to take side shots, like, say, living way out on a flank. Also minimizes exposure to arty. I was rather shocked that the axis commander used 105mm artillery on tanks.... there can't be a whole lot of ammo for that spotter, shouldn't it have been used against suspected infantry positions? Well, regardless, it did spook the M3's.I would be interested to hear Thomas' comments on this one. It definitely did distract my tanks while he moved through. Steinar--call that dramatic license, its a bit too good to be true. This question is not meant as a negative statment but a guage of readiness. How "buggy" was the game when you were playing?There are no new orders. As for buggyiness, it was definitely in an unfinished state so far as some skins and models, and the tacAI & OOBs are still getting tweaked, but it was rock solid. No CTDs or anything else one would expect with beta software. WWB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlkiilerich Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I hope you don't mind I jump in here Wyatt, not trying to hijack your tread I was rather shocked that the axis commander used 105mm artillery on tanks.... Your right that the spotter didn't have a whole lot of ammo, 60 rounds as always. The thing is, I prefer using my artillery against targets I can see, firing at suspected enemy positions is IMHO most of the time a waste of ammo. Further more, as Adam_L already mentioned, if I can win the armored battle I have no need for artillery any longer. And if I don't win it, the artillery wont do me any good. Guess Wyatt covered anything else. Thomas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hammond Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Great to see British Infantry wearing Bombay Bloomers, but they appear to be carrying lee-Enfiels Mk5's not The SMLE used up to end of 1942 early 1943. Western Desert types would all have The SMLE with bayonet fixed in action :eek: It's too bad that the only people who know how to run the World are driving cabs and cutting hair George Burns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Originally posted by Paul Hammond: Great to see British Infantry wearing Bombay Bloomers, but they appear to be carrying lee-Enfiels Mk5's not The SMLE used up to end of 1942 early 1943. Western Desert types would all have The SMLE with bayonet fixed in action :eek: It's too bad that the only people who know how to run the World are driving cabs and cutting hair George Burns. Mk 5? No such animal. They are carrying the No. 4 Mk I; you are correct in that they should be carrying the No. 1 Mk III, but these are work in progress shots. The No. 5 (not Mark V) was the jungle carbine, if that is what you are thinking of? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hammond Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Yes Michael you are quite right, I got my marksman badge and a bruised shoulder on a Mk4!! Glad it will be sorted, ? a technical question , is it easy to add a bayonet or is that a bridge too far? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Very nice AAR. How does the cover arc command work for the multiple turreted tanks ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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