List of improvements over BB?

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[JasonC]

I've never seen one, but here are a few.

Dust. The biggest improvement in my opinion.

Marginally more dangerous MG behavior, realistically so.

There is also at least one area in which I consider AK significantly worse than BB. Artillery modules and their pricing. The price of the more reactive types is vastly too high, and the allies in particular only get ridiculously overpriced large types or popguns.

As a result, the Germans have artillery superiorty in AK QBs (because they can pick and afford e.g. 120mm mortars or 105mm arty - the US would need 3 times as much to pay for its vanilla 105s), which is the opposite of the historical reality and encourages quite unhistorical tactics.

But this weakness is mitigated to non-existent in scenarios rather than QBs. Only mitigated in many, though, because designers do tend to use the points as guides to odds.

[Hensworth]

I'm not sure dust was such a big improvement.

With the binary spotting (you see it or you don't) long range tank battles can get quite tedious. Gun fires round, misses, kicks up dustcloud near target, loses LOS. Dustcloud dissipates, gun reacquires target and fires inaccurate first shot again. It can go on for quite some time.

In big battles with lots of dust being kicked up it can also slow the game down to a crawl.

[JasonC]

That is how the ranges at which fights in the desert were actually decided, dropped to 500-800 meters, instead of 1-2 km. It is how closing in becomes possible and a big part of the motive, too.

It is also critical to the way tanks with arty support defeated gun lines. Barrage dust and deliberately backing up into their own vehicle dust, let the moving side pick not only the range, but to a large extent who could engage whom. No dust in the desert means no realistic WW II desert tactics.

Personally I think barrages don't make nearly enough dust, and that barrage dust clears too quickly. Especially on dirt (very little in game, plenty in reality). There is a reason they used HE as a matter of course in the real deal, while game players often use smoke rounds instead.

[highliner]

The way HQs can LOS for indirect fire weapons such as mortars etc . I think that may be particular to CMAK only ? As in the mortar team can be behind a hill, but a HQ in contact with them can spot targets and direct their fire.

Also, on the subject of dust and smoke, dust can be telltale as well, you see a huge cloud of dust and you know something big is coming ! , it all adds to the tension . Smoke is the most usefull tool but dust can do the same job ,

Reading Antony Beevors Stalingrad (again) , its all smoke/dust/fire/hell/dogs jumping into the river.

[Guest Mike]

HQ's have been able to spot for mortars in all the games IIRC.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Not quite true. HQ's couldn't act as spotters for halftrack mounted mortars in CMBO.

Regards

Jim R.

[GreenAsJade]

I think dust was misimplemented to the point that the bad outweighs the good.

I encourage scenario designers to choose "damp" to get rid of dust.

Having radars showing where all enemy forces are is just silly.

GaJ

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Philippe]

Originally posted by GreenAsJade:

I think dust was misimplemented to the point that the bad outweighs the good.

I encourage scenario designers to choose "damp" to get rid of dust.

Having radars showing where all enemy forces are is just silly.

GaJ

I've often wondered about this. The dust in CMAK may be right for the desert, but it doesn't feel right for Italy.

Part of the problem is that in real life I'm used to seeing lines of traffic driving over tarmac where they don't raise dust. (The visual effect that I associate with modern highways is the mirage shimmer on the horizon where light reflects off the surface of the road and looks a bit like water.)

Though I do recall reading about tanks raising dust as they moved across the steppes of the Ukraine.

[GreenAsJade]

Its fine to have _lots_ of dust from vehicle in the desert, in lines where they drive etc etc... I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is that if I am on one side of a huge hill and they are on the other then I can still see, in every detail, the lines of dust!

They haven't fixed this in CMSF either

GaJ

[JoMac]

I agree with JasonC and AdamL,

there is not eneogh debris/dust from an HE Arty Barrage in CMAK and the little that there is does not last long eneogh.

I think having the similar effect of a building being destroyed should be applied to an HE Barrage.

I do think the Dust from vehicles is simulated fairly well, except I do agree with the statement GreenAsJade made.

[ August 18, 2007, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: JoMc67 ]

[John Kettler]

AdamL,

Here's the ReadMe for the 1.03 and earlier CMAK patches. Much of this isn't terribly helpful to answering your question.

Edited to remove install stuff.

October 27th. 2004

Combat Mission: Afrika Korps v1.03 Patch Readme

IMPORTANT PATCH INFO

The CMAK 1.03 patch is all inclusive and includes all the fixes and changes included in the earlier 1.01/1.02 patch. It can be applied to either CMAK version 1.0 or 1.01 or 1.02.

Patch Version History

v1.03 Fixes/Changes

* Corrected a PBEM problem with v1.02.

v1.02 Fixes/Changes

* "Labels" indicate tired or exhausted for infantry.

* Fixed a problem that erased the facade textures of large buildings

when "hide roofs" option is on.

* Churchill V shows proper camouflage in Europe.

* Availability dates of Elefant changed.

* Jagdpanzer IV upper hull side armor is 30mm.

* Minor changes to armor on Pz IV/70. Silhouette and ammo load

increased for model A.

* Italian availability of German 75mm ATG starts January 1943.

* Cleaned up some gun icons and new Italian-theater 25pdr textures.

* Staghound III crew changed to 4.

* MMG Carriers are available to Commonwealth troops.

* ATR Carriers are rare after North Africa.

* Canadians may use the Humber III LRC (representing the Otter).

* Stug IIIF (early) shows the proper camouflage in Italy.

* German 28mm heavy antitank rifle is treated as a little larger (than

previously) for transport purposes.

* Light two-level buildings on pavement now face properly as indicated

in game editor.

* Italian 75/27 and 75/32 guns may use a HEAT round starting September

1942.

* Corrected a problem that caused some "pure armor" QBs to appear with

no allied troops in North Africa.

* Rarity increased for captured PAK97/38 75mm antitank guns before

mid-1942.

* Introduction date of German-use Russian 76mm AT gun is April 1942.

* Valentine ammo load changed: 79 (2pdr), 53 (6pdr)

* Vickers MMG shows correct graphic in the player interface area.

* Updated graphics for 37mm Bofors AT gun.

* Various small updates to Australian TO&E.

* All PzIIIJ models are available as originally in v1.0 (the fix in

v1.01 was incorrect).

* Churchill tanks removed from Canadian service.

* In Italy the Sherman II (early) and Sherman III (early) have a

platoon size of four tanks.

* Germans have use of captured Italian M42 and M43 Semovente vehicles

starting in October 1943.

* Grant and late-model M3 Medium have crew of 6.

* Churchills from Mk.V and on have their appearance dates moved later

in the war.

* PzIIIF is reintroduced (it had been removed in v1.01) but is rare and

only available for a few months starting March 1941.

* South African mechanized troops arrive in Italy in April 1944.

Regular infantry does not participate in Italy.

* SMG used by British and Australians is Thompson before Italy, Sten in

Italy. New Zealanders use Thompson for whole war.

* Twin Bren AAMG added.

* New Zealand may use the Stuart I and II.

* Corrections made to Commonwealth armor crew "portraits".

* Early Commonwealth infantry battalions use the twin Bren AAMG not the

Bofors cannon.

* New Zealander 1945 infantry battalion adds an MG platoon.

* New Zealand does not have access to Staghounds in 1945.

* Pillboxes use their 'snowy' graphics in snow.

* Early Commonwealth battalion TO&E uses a landline mortar FO rather

than one with a radio.

* Wasp is available Nov 1944, correcting a points problem with the

Commonwealth infantry battalion.

* South Africans may use Stuart V.

* US Rangers first available February 1943.

* Corrected a small ammo roundoff problem when rejoining split squads.

* Pillbox firing slits are a little harder to hit.

* Fallschirmjaeger Battalion '41 uses 42mm lePaK41 AT gun.

* German panzerwurfmine introduced May 1943.

* Italian 75mm HEAT ammo penetration slightly reduced.

v1.01 Fixes/Changes

* German Airborne won't get conscripts in a QB set to medium quality troops.

* Corrections made to US Airborne TO&E.

* Fixed a crash problem in TCP/IP games experienced by the CDV version.

* Dust clouds appear when mines explode.

* The small arms types and numbers will not be shown when clicking on an enemy 'last known location' marker, even if the unit was previously "fully spotted".

* Firing panzerfausts from within a building does not suppress the firer.

* Italian L3/AA does not button up when under air attack.

* PzIIIF (37mm) not available for QB purchase in North Africa (though still available in editor).

* US M3A1 halftrack available November 1943, and mechanized TO&Es no longer try to use it before this date.

* Updated rarity/availability data for British M5 halftrack.

* Canadians stop using Churchill tank after August 1943.

* British 37mm AT gun available earlier, and 2pdr AT gun is rarer in 1940.

* British airborne has access to 75mm artillery.

* Platoon size of British Cruiser and Churchill support tanks is two.

* Platoon size of Mk. VIB is three.

* New Zealanders do not use the Valentine tank.

* German Tiger tank and 75mm AT gun first available in North Africa in November 1942.

* Of the Pz IIIJ variants, only the long-barrel model with spaced armor is available in Africa, starting May 1942.

* German long-barrelled 75mm PzIV tanks not available in North Africa until June 1942.

* Italian M14/41 has 145hp engine.

* Italian C.202 Folgore aircraft first available September 1941.

* Italian Fiat CR.42 carries two 220-pound bombs, not one 550-pound bomb.

* Italian Semoventi begin use of 75mm HEAT ammo in September 1942.

* Grant tank slightly more common in May/June 1942.

* French troops have rifle grenades in Italy.

* French version: Operation parameter screen in editor allows '-' button for nr. of flags.

* French version: Exit zone graphics are not swapped.

* 88mm flak gun model does not rotate its base when the gun rotates.

* German forces first available in North Africa in March 1941.

* Reloading a saved game maintains the 'portrait' graphic of bailed tank crews.

* Bazooka and Panzerschreck teams take suppression when firing from within a building.

* Corrected an ammo loadout problem on the StuG IV.

* Increased lethality of HEAT rounds (e.g. Bazooka).

* Force Mix types are displayed in the briefing of a two-player Quick Battle.

* The sight of captured units does not cancel a Move to Contact.

* When ordered to button up, a vehicle crew will remain buttoned for at least a full 60 seconds.

* Australian/New Zealander names that start with "O'" are displayed properly.

* Corrected a bug that could inflate an individual unit's "kill count" of mortars and guns.

* Crewed guns move across river fords at a slower speed.

* Corrected a problem with building graphics when using the "All Combined" region type.

* The British 3-inch mortar and 4.5-inch artillery spotters without radios are properly named.

* New Zealand may use the 2pdr Portee vehicle and Mk VIB light tank.

* Stuart Recce won't fire its bow MG when hull-down to the target.

* German aircraft not available after May 1944. HS129 aircraft no longer available in Italy.

* Corrected rarity/availability of Allied ATG pillboxes.

* Small correction to French 1940 TO&E.

* French and German versions: Minor typos fixed.

Regards,

John Kettler

[gibsonm]

No Russians

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Or Rumanians or Finnish or......

Regards

Jim R.

[highliner]

"Can you see me coming? cos i can`t"

those guns have got a good chance to set up before the dust settles.

[ August 21, 2007, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: highliner ]

[Redwolf]

In CMAK you also have significantly faster turn radii for tanks. Still too slow, but much better than CMBB which was about 70% too slow.

Bogging chance has also been tuned down from CMBB to CMAK.

[John Kettler]

highliner,

I have a love/hate relationship with dust in CMAK. I think it should be in and generally works well (daunting to be rapidly approached by a dust column), but it is positively maddening to be overrun by armor which you can't target because the wind's behind it but can and does shoot you (personal ROW IV experience). Even worse is the inability of gunners to continue indirect fire on the same coordinates once dust flies up. That also messed me up in ROW. Unfortunately for places like Sevastapol, real gunners CAN continue to shell a given target despite hundred foot high dust geysers.

Redwolf,

Having played Tiger Valley in CMAK, I must agree with your pivot rate comments.

Regards,

John Kettler

[highliner]

John Kettler,

Your not wrong mate, it would be ideal if dust diminished line of sight a little more progressively, rather than cut it off quite so abruptly, and preset area targets could remain so, even after becoming obscured by dust and smoke,

this would play out much more realistically.

(possible patch maybe, Mr BFC?).

(dust in time) it has saved the ol` skin apon occasion by allowing units to high tail it out of there whilst the aggressor is temporarily blindsided and unable to press home the attack .

so its swings and roundabouts for dust.

sometimes i fast/move trucks up and down towards an area where i am not attacking in some crazy attempt to decieve my opponent or at least maybe keep them on the back foot & guessing,

all adds up.

"the answer my freind

is blowing in the wind"la la laa

[Redwolf]

Another problem with dust, apart from dust not being subject to fog of war, is that CM units cannot be ordered to just fire into the fog or dust hoping to hit something.

In reality, that might not work for AT guns, but it sure is a useful thing to do for a defensive machinegun with enough ammunition.

[Sarge77]

Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann:

Not quite true. HQ's couldn't act as spotters for halftrack mounted mortars in CMBO.

Regards

Jim R.

Picky picky. Ahhh liberals. *sigh*

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Check it...

I'm pretty sure ANYONE could shoot through that. And modern tanks are heavier and move faster, so I'd gamble that they throw up quite a bit more than those of the WWII era.

CMAK dust does seem to be a little over done.

[GSX]

Dust notwithstanding, CMAK being a game means that the dust will always do the same. So knowing what dust can and cant do should be taken into account by the player. It only takes a few games to know how it reacts, especially with wind direction etc and so its a level playing field for everyone I think. Although I do think that using the hunt command in the desert or other very dusty battles is a definite wrong way to go. Your armour will hunt, acquire, fire, miss kick up dust and then continue merrily on their way, only to be blasted by an opponent who knows just how to wait for this opportunity.